Rework for 3* Spider-man

kirk justice

So I know that there is already a post about whether or not the focus on spidey should have been his artwork or his abilities, but I don't think the artists and the game designers are the same people and thus I don't believe work time was taken away from fixing his abilities (Although I'm just assuming. They could be the same people for all I know). I created this poll because I'm curious how many people actually feel Spider-man needs a rework. Personally I feel that he does, not only because he has absolutely no offensive capabilities besides match damage, but because his skills just aren't that great. Spider-man is a staple character in the Marvel universe and I think it's a missed opportunity to have him remain the way he is now. Also the changes to Iron-Man model 40 were amazing and I believe any changes similar to his are a great way to shake up the sort of stale 3* meta. I really want to know what you fellow forumites think, whether or not you agree or think he's great the way he is.

Spiritclaw

I like Spidey and use him at least once a day, for the enchilada. His teammates are Patch and Grey Suit Black Widow. The notion of "fixing" him is somewhat alarming to me, since it seems likely to take away his uniqueness. Sure, he's a support character, and very low on offense, but he does things for me that I find very useful.

Specifically, (1) if I'm trying to match a countdown tile and can't quite get there on time, a 5 stun can prevent the tile from ever going off. (2) the pink shields combined with Patch's regen let Patch tank very effectively. Putting Patch in front at the right time effectively neutralizes most countdown tiles, and since GSBW is gathering pink anyway it's essentially free. (3) In the event I screw up completely and my guys take damage, the heal can give me a new lease on life.

I don't need Spidey to have an offensive power. That's not what I use him for. I concentrate on green and pink (which gets me more green) and to a lesser extent red, and the two other members of my team give me all the offense I need. There are very few characters in the game who won't provide offensive powers, so Spidey isn't exactly lacking for teammates who can compliment his strengths.

LFChikarason

Both 3 star Spidey and Hulk need an overhaul, but Spider-Man first since he's my favorite comic character. Not huge things (keep purple as is) but say change level five blue to stun the entire team? Or change yellow to add a bit more offensive help? Something?

fight4thedream

Despite my passion for the issue, I am going to try to keep this brief and to the point:

If some of the development team's goals are to be true to the comics and capture the "flavor" of a character, in the case of "Classic" 3* Spider-man I do believe it is fair to say they have missed the mark. I understand there are those that appreciate the skill set he has as a support character but would they care if those same skills were applied to another character? At the end of the day, he is not "amazing" but a low mid-tier defensive support character with a temporary healing ability that makes no sense character-wise.

All those who are in support of changing the character are asking for re-work that is true to the character, especially since this is "Classic" Spider-man.

Please make 3* Spider-man "Amazing".

A true believer,
fight4thedream

JVReal

Let's not forget that his Yellow as manifested in the game appears to be healing... when in fact it isn't. Just like OBW isn't "healing" ability wise.

Their abilities prolong the characters ability to continue battling, web bandages patch up the hurt so the team can fight longer... longer fight = more health in MPQ land.

OBW uses the Anti-Gravity device which helps her team fight better and longer, manifested by more health, a temporary boost. If it was actually healing, it would be true healing not green health.

Ares is an example used by the devs when explaining this in the past. Ares doesn't "self-damage" so much as he is exhausted from the attack and needs time to recoup. When his CD resolves, he's rested and back up to full fighting capabilities (manifested as healing, in this case true healing because it did actually impact his health bar in game and was bringing him back to his previous state).

That's my understanding of 'healing abilities' in this game when they are group healing... they are actually extending the characters ability to fight not necessarily healing wounds.

ClydeFrog76

Spiritclaw wrote:

I like Spidey and use him at least once a day, for the enchilada. His teammates are Patch and Grey Suit Black Widow. The notion of "fixing" him is somewhat alarming to me, since it seems likely to take away his uniqueness. Sure, he's a support character, and very low on offense, but he does things for me that I find very useful.

Specifically, (1) if I'm trying to match a countdown tile and can't quite get there on time, a 5 stun can prevent the tile from ever going off. (2) the pink shields combined with Patch's regen let Patch tank very effectively. Putting Patch in front at the right time effectively neutralizes most countdown tiles, and since GSBW is gathering pink anyway it's essentially free. (3) In the event I screw up completely and my guys take damage, the heal can give me a new lease on life.

I don't need Spidey to have an offensive power. That's not what I use him for. I concentrate on green and pink (which gets me more green) and to a lesser extent red, and the two other members of my team give me all the offense I need. There are very few characters in the game who won't provide offensive powers, so Spidey isn't exactly lacking for teammates who can compliment his strengths.

How much of a Spidey fan are you? I'm guessing you didn't grow up reading every comic Marvel put out containing him, follow him through countless arcs, watch him marry, live, die, come back, give up the suit, change the suit...basically have him be an integral part of your life. Because if you did, you would understand what a poor imitation of his character the MPQ "classic" representation of him is.

If I sound like a rabid fanboy it's because I am. Spider-Man is the greatest comic character of all time. He deserves way more than a lackluster support character slot.

carrion_pigeons

Spider-Man's support role once placed him at the top of the heap in PvP. He was the best character in the game and it wasn't close. Then they nerfed him (and healing in general) down to one of the worst in the game. My point is, Spidey can be a support character. That is in character for him. What doesn't make sense for him is to be a healer.

He deserves to be the best stunner in the game. That is *the* thing that makes him feel like Spider-Man. Give me that, and give me some reasonable justification for Web tiles that isn't stupid fake healing, and I'll be happy with him, even if he isn't tuned to be best in his tier.

ClydeFrog76

I have infinitely more fun playing with his 1* version in DDQ than I ever do playing with his 3*.

That isn't right.

TLCstormz

Who would vote NO to this sort of thing?

Smh......

Pylgrim

I used to say that he didn't need a rework as long he got his horrible, off-flavour yellow changed with an offensive ability. However, the way the way the game has progressed, his purple is nowhere good enough or relevant anymore.

You know what? I'd be happy to leave it as it is, cap him at level 50 and make it a 1*, then make the current 1* Spidey a 3*. (and if they want him to be great instead of just good, swap their blue abilities, as blue is the only good ability that the current 3* has.)

Esheris

When I think of a great support character, I think of Kamala. Her heals are one of my favorite support abilities and on top of that she can dish out some awesome damage.

I want Spiderman to be capable of that, great support and damage. I've watched his cartoons and read a few comics, he is much more than a lowly support character.

In fact, I don't think that a support character could survive as a solo-hero like he does often. He excels in BOTH group and solo, he needs a rework to reflect what the real Spiderman can do.

Jam_Adams

I know this is just my opinion (as a random no-name internet guy), but I like the MPQ-version of Spidey. I get what people are saying - he is an A+ list Marvel hero. As such, his characteristics in MPQ are not consistent with 'reality'.

However, he combines three (stun, heal, protect) of the four major support roles, all into one character. The only support ability he doesn't have is AP steal.

So yes, he is pure support, but he is a hell of a supporter.

ClydeFrog76

Disagree. (Obviously.)

None of his skills are actually *that* good when you put them up against other support characters.

getterwing

carrion pigeons wrote:

He deserves to be the best stunner in the game. That is *the* thing that makes him feel like Spider-Man. Give me that, and give me some reasonable justification for Web tiles that isn't stupid fake healing, and I'll be happy with him, even if he isn't tuned to be best in his tier.

well said.

protective and stunning ability suits the spider sense and web ball in the original comic, but these ability in the game are just too weak. they should make ALL tied up all really tie up ALL the opposite characters, and should make spider sense a much stronger protection, or just like bull's eye or cage.

may be they should just copy cage's ability to spidey. (well, although it make him not so 'friendly')

Spiritclaw

ClydeFrog76 wrote:

Spiritclaw wrote:

I like Spidey and use him at least once a day, for the enchilada. His teammates are Patch and Grey Suit Black Widow. The notion of "fixing" him is somewhat alarming to me, since it seems likely to take away his uniqueness. Sure, he's a support character, and very low on offense, but he does things for me that I find very useful.

Specifically, (1) if I'm trying to match a countdown tile and can't quite get there on time, a 5 stun can prevent the tile from ever going off. (2) the pink shields combined with Patch's regen let Patch tank very effectively. Putting Patch in front at the right time effectively neutralizes most countdown tiles, and since GSBW is gathering pink anyway it's essentially free. (3) In the event I screw up completely and my guys take damage, the heal can give me a new lease on life.

I don't need Spidey to have an offensive power. That's not what I use him for. I concentrate on green and pink (which gets me more green) and to a lesser extent red, and the two other members of my team give me all the offense I need. There are very few characters in the game who won't provide offensive powers, so Spidey isn't exactly lacking for teammates who can compliment his strengths.

How much of a Spidey fan are you? I'm guessing you didn't grow up reading every comic Marvel put out containing him, follow him through countless arcs, watch him marry, live, die, come back, give up the suit, change the suit...basically have him be an integral part of your life. Because if you did, you would understand what a poor imitation of his character the MPQ "classic" representation of him is.

If I sound like a rabid fanboy it's because I am. Spider-Man is the greatest comic character of all time. He deserves way more than a lackluster support character slot.

I'm a comics fan, and while possibly not as rabid regarding him as some other characters, I like Spidey a lot. The story arc I've enjoyed the most, recently, has been the death of ultimate spider man. Web bandages played a fairly significant role in that arc. Lifting a car over his head and bashing the goblin with it was pretty cool, too, but we have 5* Spidey for that.

Each MPQ character has 3 powers. Only 3. Essentially all comic book characters have more than three moves. If we want to play in this sort of medium at all, we have to allow for substantial artistic license. 3* Spider-man reflects the portion of the character that runs, swings, leaps, tumbles and gets out of the way in order to survive against overwhelming odds. He's the character who ducks out of the way in response to a spider sense before his normal senses are even aware of the danger. Can Spidey be a more aggressive, offensively minded hero? Sure. But he isn't always, which is why 3* and 5* Spidey are different.

ClydeFrog76

Yeah, 5* Spidey sounds sweet. It's a real pity that I, and a lot of other people, will probably *never* have the opportunity to play with him.

Unknown

If the only web tile generator you are using is 3* Spidey, you need to use his Blue 3 times to reach the threshold. This means you need at least 15 blue AP and 12 yellow AP to get the bonus healing. The bonus healing is nice, but you make your other abilities weaker after you use it. It's a lot of investment for a pretty low reward.

Two of the five other web tile users can't even be used with 3* Spidey. One is 1* Venom. The other two are 4* so it'll take quite some time to get them covered, but even when you do, they each have a yellow ability that completely outclasses Web Bandages.

If we want a small tweak, I'd say make his Yellow only remove 1 web tile and have each web tile on the board reduce it's AP cost, to a minimum of 7. Remove the bonus heal for having webs on the board (and maybe tweak the healing numbers in light of this). This makes it so using his yellow doesn't hurt him (or other web using teammates) as much, and the AP cost reduction makes it a bit more efficient. When playing with his 4* friends, you still likely won't want to use his yellow (Gwen and Miles still seem better), but at least it has a chance of being useful on its own.

If we want a bigger change, maybe change his yellow to a green or black ability that lets him swap a tile with a web on it with any other tile. Make his blue generate a blue web instead of a yellow web. This gives Spidey a way to match more blues to continue to stun when on his own, but also when used as a support for Miles/Gwen he 1) has a new independent color, so he doesn't have an ability that gets outclassed and 2) can help them generate AP for their skills.