Yellow from the Other Side

BlackBoltRocks

Alrighty, I decided to start this leisurely discussion for several reasons. First up, you might be aware that there’s currently an ongoing discussion about being the 2000-point prize for the season, and whether it’s the suckiest power in 4* land. In addition, I’ve seen some comments that yellow is usually the “meh” colour, the one that you can leave at 3 covers. Is it really that bad? Plus, in the last 24 hours I just got from a Thick as Thieves token, as well as from the DDQ Vault. My Simulator vault has ; the way my RNG is going, I’m probably gonna get him as well.

So, yellow powers. In MPQ, yellow is best known as being a defensive/recovery ability. Of course there are the outliers, like Luke Cage’s Righteous Uppercut, but the majority of yellow powers have a defensive and/or supportive element. I’ll be looking at all the yellow powers in 4* land both in a vacuum (that is, if that character only had yellow covers) and in the context of a fully-covered character (if that character has all 13 covers). Oh, and I’ll be looking at them in the context of 1-v-1 as well. Just think 4* DDQ. Abilities are listed according to character alphabetical order. Opinions are all mine; feel free to add constructive comments. Here we go!

Ants! Ants! Ants! Cost: 7 AP
A very solid yellow ability that has both an active and a passive component. A yellow-only Antman can deal chip damage for a few turns before proccing strike tiles, which are always welcome. Combined with his purple, you’ll be pumping out lots of damage assuming you can flood the board with his yellow and purple (that’s how my lv127 2/2/2 Antman took down Jean Grey). My verdict: 7/10

Uncanny Strategist. Cost: 5 AP
A great support ability that is absolutely useless if it’s the only cover in a 1v1 scenario. Good luck beating DDQ with your 0/5/0 Cyclops! Combined with his red and blue, however, it turns into a very efficient battery. At five covers, you need just three TU matches to activate his Combined Forces, which will likely have 10 TU AP to feed on. My verdict: 0/10 by itself, 10/10 with his red

Grant Invisibility. Cost: 9 AP
This. This ability is what allowed a 1/0/0 IW to triumph over Quicksilver. This ability directly or indirectly led to Quickie’s buffing. At higher levels, it creates strong protect tiles, although you’re still likely to leave it at 3 covers in favour of blue and green. Still, like Prof X’s purple, this is an ability that, if you come up against it, might make you want to throw your device across the room. Don’t underestimate it. My verdict: 9/10 (the high score is mostly due to its awesomeness in 1v1)

Maggia Pawns. Cost: 10 AP
By itself, it’s a very solid move that allows Kingpin to deal damage, and at higher levels creates (relatively pathetic) strike tiles and the potential of a nuke. With his black, however, it becomes phenomenal, as evidenced in his matchup against Luke. Five Fingerpokes of Doom in a row is nothing to sneeze at. Oh, and it’s accelerated by his purple. Great ability both on its own and combined with Willy’s other powers. My verdict: 7/10 by itself, 9/10 with his black and purple

Power & Responsibility. Cost: 8 AP
The second power after Cyclops that, by itself, is absolutely useless. Those purple and red AP generated do nothing when Miles, er, doesn’t have purple and red covers. With them, however, it fuels his purple and red, allowing him to go invisible and stun enemies. My verdict: 1/10 by itself, 8/10 with his purple and red

Master of the Fantastic. Cost: Passive
Yet another useless ability on its own. How you gonna heal if Mr F doesn’t have his blue or black to create special tiles? With them, however, it has some utility. At 5 covers, Mr F has the chance of a super heal. Still, you’d probably prefer to leave it at 3 covers; combined with the protect tiles his blue produces, it should be enough. My verdict: 0/10 by itself, 6.5/10 with his blue and black

Avengers Assemble! Cost: 12 AP
One of the most interesting yellow abilities. Let’s assume you have at least 4 covers, because that’s when you can get a 3-turn stun. Of course, it does require plenty of babysitting (collecting red, blue, purple, green), but the payoff is worth it. In fact, we don’t really need to bring his blue and purple into the picture; AA is one of those abilities that works equally well whether Nick is 5/0/0 or 5/x/y. My verdict: 2/10 at one cover, 6/10 at 2 covers, 8/10 at 4+ covers

BlackBoltRocks

Nova Blast. Cost: 7 AP
Brilliant ability. Relatively cheap and does decent damage, with a huge spike from 4 to 5 covers. Although, in a 1v1, the secondary effect of proccing strike tiles is useless. Still, a 0/5/0 Nova will definitely be a contender in his 4* DDQ match. Combined with his red and black (and teammates!), you’re going to be seeing a lot of friendly strike tiles, which enable his red and black to activate their conditional abilities. My verdict: 7/10 by himself and only yellow covers, 9/10 with teammates and red + black

Psychic Convergence. Cost: Passive
Number 4 in a list of useless solo abilities. Tell me what a 0/0/5 Prof X can do against Elektra? With teammates and his purple, though, it becomes a great support ability. If you go with five covers, that’s three tiles procced every time a teammate uses an ability, boosted if Prof X makes a match while he’s invisible. I’ve lost to a solo Prof X before because he kept buffing all the special tiles on board. My verdict: 0/10 by itself, 8/10 with teammates and his purple

Coordinated Tactics. Cost: Passive
The latest addition to a family, and a welcome one. With all the AoE abilities flying around in 4* land, you’ll be happy to have Quake’s yellow to soften the blow. At high enough covers and levels, you’ll be taking a grand total of 1 damage from Reality Crush, Teen Jean, Hammer & Anvil etc. Still, it’s situational in that you need to be facing an opponent with AoE damage. If not, it’s literally useless. So expect to see a non-AoE opponent in Quake’s DDQ. My verdict: 9/10 against an AoE opponent, 0/10 if not

Wings of Liberty. Cost: 9 AP
Good old Falcap. By itself, it isn’t the worst ability; however, you’ll simply be slowing down the match, like if you had a Falcon with purple only. Plus. Carol laughs at him. It really shines when combined with his blue and red: blue boosts two of them, while the number of protect tiles fuels his red for a nuke. A 5/0/0 Falcap is nothing to shout about; a 3/5/5 Falcap has a lot of potential. My verdict: 2/10 by itself, 7/10 with his blue and red

Kick Out the Jams. Cost: 8 AP
The ability that started a phenomenon. Number 5 in the list of yellows that is useless by itself. I mean, Gwen doesn’t even heal herself! It really shines with her purple and red though: depending on whether you give it 3 or 5 covers (usually 3), just two or three casts and her red costs 6 AP. Plus, the stun from her purple can help you gather web tiles. My verdict: 0/10 by itself, 8/10 with her red and purple and teammates

Everyone With Me. Cost: 7 AP
One of the better support abilities that, yet again, is useless by itself. Let’s see how a 0/5/0 Starlord does against Gamora, eh? With his other two abilities and especially teammates, this ability becomes awesome. At 5 covers, all colours except black are reduced by 2 AP. A huge game-changer, no question, especially with Fist’s purple costing 3 AP. Verdict: 0/10 by itself, 7/10 at 3 covers, 10/10 at 5 covers

Rock Solid. Cost: Passive
A rock-solid ability (heh heh). And yet another ability useless by itself. Ironically, most (if not all) people will have this at 3 covers, which requires the most amount of damage taken to activate. At 5 covers, it requires less damage to activate, and creates protect tiles that are more than twice as strong. Still, the protection provided at 3 covers is usually more than enough, and there is absolutely no justification to sacrificing his red and green. Still an ability you’ll be happy to have, though. My verdict: 0/10 by itself, 7/10 with teammates

Striking Distance. Cost: 12 AP
Seriously, why was this nerfed? Anyway, by itself it’s useful for getting rid of pesky opposing special tiles. At 5 covers it also gets rid of countdown tiles, which is always helpful. Still, when paired with her red and blue, it’s hard to give up extra damage from Smite or extra stuns from Power Surge. A solid but unspectacular ability. My verdict: 6/10 at 3 covers, 8/10 at 5 covers

Lethal Protector. Cost: 9 AP
Great ability with an annoying side-effect. It has a great damage-to-AP ration, and at 5 covers it does lots of damage; a 0/0/5 Venom will breeze through his DDQ (provided you can get 27 yellow AP). Still, producing enemy protect tiles is a nuisance. The good thing about these tiles is that it lowers the cost of his green and provides some boardshake. As for his black…well it does weaken those protect tiles I guess? My verdict: 9/10 overall (assuming you have at least 3 covers)

Recovery. Cost: 7 AP
Thank goodness most players will never have to experience a 7-turn countdown for healing. Anyway, by itself it isn’t the worst ability, plus it can still do damage provided you match the countdown away. I’m not sure if a 0/0/5 Wolvie can overcome Cyclops in his DDQ; anyone care to chime in? Still, you’ll still want his green and black for guaranteed sources of damage. Don’t sniff at yellow though, it helps to keep Wolvie healthy, prolongs the match, and potentially save health packs. My verdict: 7/10 overall

Malcrof

Not seeing up there, purposely bringing someone else to the front, just to get those HUGE shields out, make is very useful, 1v1, pointless.. so 0/10 on 1v1, and 6/10 on any team!

3k damage and some black strikes for 7ap?? Yes pls. 10/10 on 1v1 and in any team!

BlackBoltRocks

Malcrof wrote:

Not seeing up there, purposely bringing someone else to the front, just to get those HUGE shields out, make is very useful, 1v1, pointless.. so 0/10 on 1v1, and 6/10 on any team!

Haha I just edited it, because there are currently 17 Yellow abilities in 4* land, so I decided to split them into two posts

Vhailorx

Nice post TC, I think you are overvaluing the abilities that reduce the cost of other abilities (specifically star-lord and spider-gwen).

It's nice that casting these abilities reduces the cost of other abilities, but the effect is too small relative to the cast cost. Both yellow powers cost more than two matches to cast, and at best they reduce the cost of the powers you actually want to use by 3ap or less.

So in almost all circumstances, you are just better off getting more of the color of the actual ap you want. There are basically only two scenarios where these powers are very useful:

(1) both you and the ai are chasing the primary color you want, leaving lots of yellow on the board. Since the ai isn't smart enough to strategically deny colors, this doesn't happen too often, but it definitely does happen once in a while.

(2) denying yellow is a priority, so you will be collecting the yellow anyway and might as well use it.

Both of these circumstances happen, but they are not common enough to justify using these characters. In almost all circumstances You are just better off bringing a yellow power that is worth using in its own right.

(disclosure: I May have started the discussion about how **** spider-gwen yellow is. . .)

To the larger point yellow has a fair number of very good powers at both the 3 and 4* level. But a lot of them are passives, so yellow was traditionally starved for strong active abilities. That's changing a bit of late (venom, nova!), but remains true in comparison to something like black or red

madok

I was fully expecting a parody of Adele's Hello song when I clicked on this thread. Where is my parody?

Vhailorx

Aesthetocyst,

I don't think this is just a tale of normal distribution. This is a game that heavily favors offense, and yellow powers are more frequently defensive/support/passive powers. So one could argue that yellow is systematically devalued by the metagame. (and there's also the confirmation bias of passive powers. Patch's yellow is probably his best power, but a lot of people will start any discussion about him with the green, because it's a flashy, active power. The same thing happens with Thing's yellow.)

jobob

Currently, the best thing you can do with yellow is -NOT- use it and save it up so you can transform OML. Then unleash the beast.


I like your post... the way you set it up, you may not be over-valuing things since you are talking about 1v1 and fully-covered characters... but since 1v1 is such a small part of the game and not everyone may be fully-covered, the value of yellow abilities in the context of the entire game is a few points lower than where you have them ranked. Yellow abilities almost never stand alone, but there are abilities of other colors out there that you could run with just 5 covers and no other colors.


That said, yellow can be a "fun" color. Star Lord's yellow + Iceman + Ragnarok for example... blue AP & stuns for everybody!

Dayv

BlackBoltRocks wrote:

Kick Out the Jams. Cost: 8 AP
The ability that started a phenomenon. Number 5 in the list of yellows that is useless by itself. I mean, Gwen doesn’t even heal herself! It really shines with her purple and red though: depending on whether you give it 3 or 5 covers (usually 3), just two or three casts and her red costs 6 AP. Plus, the stun from her purple can help you gather web tiles. My verdict: 0/10 by itself, 8/10 with her red and purple and teammates

Just two or three casts to bring her red cost down? That's 16-24 yellow AP just for prep work!

Calnexin

On offense, I agree. Defensive powers tend not to do that well, primarily because the game is designed to reward speedy matches. The more time you spend defending, the more clock you run out on PvE events, and the more exposed you are in PvP.

On defense, they may give you a slight edge. I've gotten frustrated by spiderman's web bandages and Grocket's yellow-match healing. When you're trying to take a team down, those things aren't insignificant, and even if the opponent doesn't have any viable nukes remaining, that drawn out match will whittle down your team's health and cost you precious time.

So my take is that they're not necessarily "meh". They're not flashy or exciting when you're playing, but they are pretty great as a countermeasure.

Vhailorx

Calnexin wrote:

On offense, I agree. Defensive powers tend not to do that well, primarily because the game is designed to reward speedy matches. The more time you spend defending, the more clock you run out on PvE events, and the more exposed you are in PvP.

On defense, they may give you a slight edge. I've gotten frustrated by spiderman's web bandages and Grocket's yellow-match healing. When you're trying to take a team down, those things aren't insignificant, and even if the opponent doesn't have any viable nukes remaining, that drawn out match will whittle down your team's health and cost you precious time.

So my take is that they're not necessarily "meh". They're not flashy or exciting when you're playing, but they are pretty great as a countermeasure.

You are right about the game-extending utility of many yellow powers. And that would be great. . .if we were the ai. Game-extension means nothing to us players of we can't ultimately win. Players need to win matches to achieve our goals, but the ai only needs to extend matches long enough for extrinsic factors to affect the player. So from a player perspective, we are right to undervalue things like burst healing relative to direct damage or ap generation. Beyond a certain point, winning a very long brawl of a match is almost as bad as losing for us.

Unknown

odd man out here, but I like goon pounding with 5 4* . takes those CD tiles and charges them up.

Warbringa

I know the OP was looking at 4* only yellow powers but let's not forget IM40 new yellow, it is better than all of those 4* yellow powers listed above due to the volume of AP it can provide to fire your best abilities (yeah I know tiles can be matched away but even one or two going off is well worth the trade). I would probably take Cage and Thor's 3* yellow ability over most of those 4* yellow abilities as well.

Calnexin

madok wrote:

I was fully expecting a parody of Adele's Hello song when I clicked on this thread. Where is my parody?

Yellow from the other side
I must've healed a hundred times
To keep you from downing every hero I got
And when you match 5, everything goes to pot

Yellow on the outside
Can't match up the corners can I?
To make some more AP, to keep my team hale
It don't matter, cuz I, just matched enough pink, for some whales.

jobob

Brochacho wrote:

odd man out here, but I like goon pounding with 5 4* . takes those CD tiles and charges them up.

It is certainly useful... But in most cases her 5/3/5 build is so much better, I think yellow loses points for taking away from 2 great abilities, OR being only available once you have champed her.

jobob

Vhailorx wrote:

Calnexin wrote:

On offense, I agree. Defensive powers tend not to do that well, primarily because the game is designed to reward speedy matches. The more time you spend defending, the more clock you run out on PvE events, and the more exposed you are in PvP.

On defense, they may give you a slight edge. I've gotten frustrated by spiderman's web bandages and Grocket's yellow-match healing. When you're trying to take a team down, those things aren't insignificant, and even if the opponent doesn't have any viable nukes remaining, that drawn out match will whittle down your team's health and cost you precious time.

So my take is that they're not necessarily "meh". They're not flashy or exciting when you're playing, but they are pretty great as a countermeasure.

You are right about the game-extending utility of many yellow powers. And that would be great. . .if we were the ai. Game-extension means nothing to us players of we can't ultimately win. Players need to win matches to achieve our goals, but the ai only needs to extend matches long enough for extrinsic factors to affect the player. So from a player perspective, we are right to undervalue things like burst healing relative to direct damage or ap generation. Beyond a certain point, winning a very long brawl of a match is almost as bad as losing

That's a fair point... And frankly most of the times I either lose on offense or score points on defense it involves some support power going off at a critical point. (Obviously I am making some assumptions on my defense wins, but they come more frequently with a team with an oddball power than with a straightforward offensive one). Those powers that the AI uses incorrectly 9/10 times can be a real pain when it manages to get them right.

Mitchjewitz

We need to do this with all the colors.

Calnexin

Vhailorx wrote:

Calnexin wrote:

On offense, I agree. Defensive powers tend not to do that well, primarily because the game is designed to reward speedy matches. The more time you spend defending, the more clock you run out on PvE events, and the more exposed you are in PvP.

On defense, they may give you a slight edge. I've gotten frustrated by spiderman's web bandages and Grocket's yellow-match healing. When you're trying to take a team down, those things aren't insignificant, and even if the opponent doesn't have any viable nukes remaining, that drawn out match will whittle down your team's health and cost you precious time.

So my take is that they're not necessarily "meh". They're not flashy or exciting when you're playing, but they are pretty great as a countermeasure.

You are right about the game-extending utility of many yellow powers. And that would be great. . .if we were the ai. Game-extension means nothing to us players of we can't ultimately win. Players need to win matches to achieve our goals, but the ai only needs to extend matches long enough for extrinsic factors to affect the player. So from a player perspective, we are right to undervalue things like burst healing relative to direct damage or ap generation. Beyond a certain point, winning a very long brawl of a match is almost as bad as losing for us.

Yeah, that was pretty much my point. You don't often utilize defensive powers during actual play. You employ them as an endpoint to your game session to frustrate would-be attackers. Putting forth a team that's almost guaranteed to lose, but will cost them twice the playtime to defeat, is a strategy. They are far more likely to skip your node than make the attempt. Particularly at the top-end, a team that exposes you longer means whatever you gain has a strong chance of being lost while you're playing the match.

There's two sides to the game. The time you're playing and the time you're not. For the time you're playing, straight-out offense is the most effective strategy. Down your opponents as quickly as possible. But those teams tend to defend poorly, because the AI can't use the powers correctly. So for your last match you play with a defensive team that will elongate match time and frustrate the opponent. You lose less during your downtime, and may even pick up a few points you didn't expect.

The Bob The

Nice breakdown. I tend to think of yellow as the "Leadership" color, as it's usually based on support, inspiration, and enhancement (plus a lot of yellow powers talk about leadership and coordination in the name/description). I'd love to see this for the other colors, but then I'm kind of a Magic: The Gathering nerd.

bpcontra

3 4* in 24 hours? Yeah I'm not feeling very sad for you. I'don't take those yellows all day if I could accrue them as fast as you.

*spills his milk*

*cries over spilled milk*