Complaints about AI Cascading...

2

Comments

  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Part of me wonders if there should be alterations to the code to mess with the RNG so that tiles from the top never create a new match.

    But 1, then people would whine about the AI being given easy match 5/4s from the top anyways, and 2, Cascades are honestly really darn fun. They're visually appealing there's special sound effects and they can change the flow of a match on their own. I like that bit of chaos sometimes.
  • chamber44
    chamber44 Posts: 324 Mover and Shaker
    TLCstormz wrote:
    zodiac339 wrote:
    The biggest **** is when then match four destroys a column and drops a match five into it. Random? I suppose they could say that's random, but the system shouldn't allow 4 or 5 of the same color to drop in consecutively. Same with row drops, cause I've seen a row drop in with a match five too.

    This is my complaint about the situation.

    Its always that they make a match 5 and then four or five other match fives magically appear from the heavens to fall down on top.

    And the people saying confirmation bias are out of their mind in my opinion, because no human player is going to match correctly and predict the future of incoming tiles like the artificial intelligence WILL. Suggesting so is really really cuckoo.
    It's "always?"

    if that were so, this would be the worst game in history. Cascades are frustrating, and i've certainly had my strings of bad luck, but they're not the result of a diabolical plot by D3/Demiurge against you.

    Honestly - you think after presenting us with broken mechanic after broken mechanic, they have the coding skills to do this?
  • CNash
    CNash Posts: 952 Critical Contributor
    http://www.demiurgestudios.com/engineer ... -opponent/
  • Lemminkäinen
    Lemminkäinen Posts: 378 Mover and Shaker
    They won't make the AI match the L-shaped five-matches but they build this super-secret cascade combo system into the game? Sounds legit!
  • Kevin61
    Kevin61 Posts: 256 Mover and Shaker
    BlackBoltRocks wrote:
    I've been seeing this a lot in the current Iso PvE. Just a few minutes ago i faced Juggs and Ragnarok; AI made a match 3 that cascaded into two successive green match-5s. And of course picked up plenty of red AP along the way as well

    Still, not like i haven't been having my own cascades. It evens itself out

    I played a similar node the other day but in my case it made 4, yes 4!, match 5's in a row, two of them green. Juggs nearly devastated my entire team just by himself. My team was Hulk, 3* Human Torch and Black Panther.
  • Spencer75
    Spencer75 Posts: 232
    Alfje17 wrote:
    I see this quite often in PvP: AI makes a 3 tile match instead of a 4 or 5 one, simply because he knows what tiles are coming in. So the resulting cascade does a whole lot more damage and I end up losing a character icon_mad.gif

    AI never makes a match 3 instead of match 4.

    This is bald faced lie and you do not see this quite often
  • Spencer75
    Spencer75 Posts: 232
    Lemminkäinen wrote:
    They won't make the AI match the L-shaped five-matches but they build this super-secret cascade combo system into the game? Sounds legit!

    This highlights the lunacy of the "AI is cheating" argument very well.
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    CNash wrote:
    http://www.demiurgestudios.com/engineering/a-worthy-opponent/

    Great article, and pretty much sums it all up, doesn't it. The computer, frankly, plays a terrible game, and yet because we're the ones trying to make progress, it feels bad enough when random things happen that don't favor us.
  • MojoWild
    MojoWild Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
    zodiac339 wrote:
    The biggest **** is when then match four destroys a column and drops a match five into it. Random? I suppose they could say that's random, but the system shouldn't allow 4 or 5 of the same color to drop in consecutively. Same with row drops, cause I've seen a row drop in with a match five too.

    I have and it's also happened in my favor. If they made it not do this, then it wouldn't be random.
  • carrion_pigeons
    carrion_pigeons Posts: 942 Critical Contributor
    Maybe they could make it so that instead of playing worse but getting equal cascades, they could make it so the computer got worse cascades but played as well as a human.

    That would be many, many times harder to code, but actually probably more fun overall.
  • JackTenrec
    JackTenrec Posts: 808 Critical Contributor
    AI got either 4 or 5 match 4s in a row via cascades today. The only reason I didn't throw my tablet across the room is because I was using boosted Loki.
  • BlackSheep101
    BlackSheep101 Posts: 2,025 Chairperson of the Boards
    JackTenrec wrote:
    AI got either 4 or 5 match 4s in a row via cascades today. The only reason I didn't throw my tablet across the room is because I was using boosted Loki.
    This always happens to me when Loki is out front eating all the damage from those matches and abilities, so I never get the benefit of the dozen countdown tiles he creates.
  • jredd
    jredd Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    either it used to happen a lot more, or i've just gotten used to seeing it. my vote is for the former.
  • XandorXerxes
    XandorXerxes Posts: 340 Mover and Shaker
    The problem isn't that it's the AI cascading - players do it just as often. The complaint should be that there are those kinds of cascades at all.

    I'm a bit curious though - I'm not sure I've seen a match-3 (granted I have only seen about 3) game that doesn't have crazy cascades. I'm wondering if it's a poor seed or if there's actually a built in chance to have 4+ in a row drop in (theoretically under the premise that it prevents the board from being too stale all the time, or if it's actually useful for you to have those cascades like in a solo game).
  • Xenoberyll
    Xenoberyll Posts: 647 Critical Contributor
    Jaedenkaal wrote:
    Yeah except in this odd poker game of yours, there's only one face value, and 7 suits. (or one suit and 7 face values, if you'd like). And you get to draw more than 5 cards at a time, in a lot of cases. And there are ~50 other cards that you could potentially use already on the board.

    Wait, this analogy doesn't work at all.

    I didn't say this is like poker, it's just an analogy to show how much the probabilities are off.
    How's the chance for 5 or more gems of the same color falling in a row? Not that high i guess, but it's fairly common in the game that one match 4/5 leads to not one but multiple match 4/5s falling from the sky (not even counting those that match with adjacent tiles to the sides).
  • ammenell
    ammenell Posts: 817 Critical Contributor
    Xenoberyll wrote:
    Jaedenkaal wrote:
    Yeah except in this odd poker game of yours, there's only one face value, and 7 suits. (or one suit and 7 face values, if you'd like). And you get to draw more than 5 cards at a time, in a lot of cases. And there are ~50 other cards that you could potentially use already on the board.

    Wait, this analogy doesn't work at all.

    I didn't say this is like poker, it's just an analogy to show how much the probabilities are off.
    How's the chance for 5 or more gems of the same color falling in a row? Not that high i guess, but it's fairly common in the game that one match 4/5 leads to not one but multiple match 4/5s falling from the sky (not even counting those that match with adjacent tiles to the sides).
    isnt the probability for 5 blue tiles falling in a row exactly the same as for 5 different tiles?
    its like the probability in roulette to have red 20times in a row is the same as having any other red/black distribution
  • Nightglider1
    Nightglider1 Posts: 707 Critical Contributor
    ammenell wrote:
    Xenoberyll wrote:
    Jaedenkaal wrote:
    Yeah except in this odd poker game of yours, there's only one face value, and 7 suits. (or one suit and 7 face values, if you'd like). And you get to draw more than 5 cards at a time, in a lot of cases. And there are ~50 other cards that you could potentially use already on the board.

    Wait, this analogy doesn't work at all.

    I didn't say this is like poker, it's just an analogy to show how much the probabilities are off.
    How's the chance for 5 or more gems of the same color falling in a row? Not that high i guess, but it's fairly common in the game that one match 4/5 leads to not one but multiple match 4/5s falling from the sky (not even counting those that match with adjacent tiles to the sides).
    isnt the probability for 5 blue tiles falling in a row exactly the same as for 5 different tiles?
    its like the probability in roulette to have red 20times in a row is the same as having any other red/black distribution

    Correct - each tile's probability is independent of every other tile's probability. Every tile is going to be one of seven possibilities (6 colors plus team-up). Just because the first tile in a drop is blue, it doesn't mean that the next one won't (or can't) be blue, etc.
  • Orion
    Orion Posts: 1,295 Chairperson of the Boards
    I just had a fun match, the AI triggered an 8-match cascade before he even took a turn! It was all triggered by Scarlet Witch's passive. When the AI did finally take his turn, there was a T-shaped match-5 that could have led to even more, so I got a little lucky there...
  • carrion_pigeons
    carrion_pigeons Posts: 942 Critical Contributor
    Nightglider1 wrote:
    ammenell wrote:
    Xenoberyll wrote:
    Jaedenkaal wrote:
    Yeah except in this odd poker game of yours, there's only one face value, and 7 suits. (or one suit and 7 face values, if you'd like). And you get to draw more than 5 cards at a time, in a lot of cases. And there are ~50 other cards that you could potentially use already on the board.

    Wait, this analogy doesn't work at all.

    I didn't say this is like poker, it's just an analogy to show how much the probabilities are off.
    How's the chance for 5 or more gems of the same color falling in a row? Not that high i guess, but it's fairly common in the game that one match 4/5 leads to not one but multiple match 4/5s falling from the sky (not even counting those that match with adjacent tiles to the sides).
    isnt the probability for 5 blue tiles falling in a row exactly the same as for 5 different tiles?
    its like the probability in roulette to have red 20times in a row is the same as having any other red/black distribution

    Correct - each tile's probability is independent of every other tile's probability. Every tile is going to be one of seven possibilities (6 colors plus team-up). Just because the first tile in a drop is blue, it doesn't mean that the next one won't (or can't) be blue, etc.

    To clarify, any *particular* combination of five tiles is equally likely. The flaw in thinking comes in when you start saying things like "5 different tiles" is as likely as "5 blue tiles", because there are a LOT more ways for 5 different tiles to happen than there are for 5 blue tiles (21 times as many ways, specifically), and each one of those ways is, on their own, just as likely as 5 blue.
  • seshoma
    seshoma Posts: 58 Match Maker
    So a year ago in a pvp the ai got the biggest cascade ive ever seen.
    dont know what the team was of the ai but it had Lthor and he was the last character left , and i had 2 left with some hp.

    So the ai used Lthor's yellow and the green just perfectly matched all the other green on the board that were in the left side of the board making 2 criticals .
    I was like ok ,this can happen .
    But after this when the new tiles dropped THEY WERE ALL GREEN TILES, not 1 single other color. There were like 20 green tiles.
    The green tiles formed 1 big cascade and destroyed my team.....
    Wanted to screenshot it but i was to late cause I just couldn't believe what i saw

    I have seen alot of cascades happen for the ai that were just unreal but this just topped everything.

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