Why is PVP so bleak after 1K?

dcopelov

I don't *think* this is a dupe of a recent thread, but if so, sorry!

I've been playing for awhile and have a decent maxed 4-star roster. I have a bunch of 5* covers, but they're all the 'wrong' ones (2x SS black, 2x OML red, 2x Phoenix Green+Red...you get the idea).

I can hit 1K in PVP using top-tier 4* teams with relative ease. I usually pick the third end time option, and I usually see a few of the mega-whales in my bracket, so I don't think the bracket is the issue (I've tried different end times, but that just makes it worse - e.g. in end-time 1's brackets, people usually don't hit 800 until 11 hrs before the end of a PVP event, in my experience).

My username is cupp (alliance: Solaris Prime) if you want to confirm that my roster doesn't suck.

Unfortunately, after I hit 1K, every matchmaking result looks like either

(a) a crazy 5-star team at lvl 400+ for a decent point value;
(b) a solid 4-star (jeanbuster, icebuster, some well-thought-out event-specific combo, etc.) or worse team for 5 points;
(c) a 2 4*s + 1 robust 5* (e.g. lvl 425+ OML with black+yellow+red covers) team for 20-30 points;
(d) an anomaly (cupcake) worth 20-30 points (sometimes more, sometimes less).

(d) doesn't happen often enough to factor into my decision making, and (c) involves some SERIOUS risk vs. reward math, so I'm left with either a LOT of shield hopping for (b) (you get hit a LOT after 1K, and it HURTS each time) or trying my luck against (a) (low odds of success).

I have 2 questions (well, 3 if you count the one in the topic):

1.) Is everyone else deep in 4* land (but not 5* land) seeing the same thing, so I should just accept it?
2.) Are all the people with strong 5* rosters basically win-trading with each other to hit 2K+ in every PVP, and if so, is that by design?

Twysta

VA5

If you have a four star roster 1300 should not be too difficult. First consider moving shards. I'm in shard one which is chock full of players hitting 1300 plus. In some PvP's a 1300 score may not even land you in top 50. This may seem a negative but unless you are playing for position rank the more people above you the higher the values of each battle.
You are most likely not using shields well. When it gets hot you can not stay out too long. Timing of shields becomes intuitive, although we all get burnt.
Join a LINE group. This is an instant chat group where you do not attack anyone in the room and they will not attack you. High level players prepare "cupcakes" which are high value point teams with easily beatable 1, 2 & 3 stars.
Finally timing of your play is important. You really start receiving a lot of love from opponent teams once you become top 10, at top five the well dries up and you have a big old target on your back.

Hope this helps....

Dragon_Nexus

I can't even *get* to 1000 these days. Something feels really screwy since I have to cycle through way more matches these days before I find something worth more than 35 points.

I mean, when I'm skipping level 270+ Jeanbusters not because they're too hard (though it's a crapshoot as to whether the board favours you or not), but because they're only worth 32 points, it gets frustrating.

The bracket I'm in for R&G everyone in the top ten has 2000 points or more. Yet I'm stuck at 50th barely able to sneak past 850 points without getting stomped on.
I'm using Thoress, who is admittedly under levelled, but my only other option would be using boosted 3*s, which I feel just makes me more of a target.

jredd

i've never hit 1000. most ever was 960. had to get a few defensive wins after i shielded to get there, so realistically about 940.

i typically hit the wall around 700-800.(teams are too difficult/worth too little points/get hit 3-5 times for every win)

not interested in shield hopping.

starting to get some usable 4* though so hopefully hitting 1000 starts to get to be more realistic.

Vhailorx

Slice 3 is one of the less active time slices, so that might be part of your problem Tc.

A few whales on the leader boards aren't enough to provide good targets above 1k when everyone shields because people spend 95+% of the time shielded.

But in general I think Tc raises a larger issue which is that high level PvP isn't too much fun. Most time is spent waiting and slipping nodes looking for juicy pushover targets. Shield hops can be exciting but are also sometimes stressful and very frustrating. It's a systemic problem, so I don't mean to sugges that there are easy solutions. But I got one don't find 1k+ in pve very compelling overall. I happily skip most events these days and dont miss it.

dcopelov

To VA5's point about cupcakes:

I used to pre-load cupcake matches before shield hopping, but by the time I actually beat them, they've gone from a decent point value to almost nothing because every other desperate post-1K user is hammering away at them.

Some of the other suggestions (e.g. slice 3 isn't as great as I think it is) do seem useful, though!

Lukoil

My thoughts on this. Because of removing covers for HP the only real HP spender right now is shields and more people then before now going early shields (because why not there are no real things to spend them on)

Vhailorx

dcopelov wrote:

To VA5's point about cupcakes:

I used to pre-load cupcake matches before shield hopping, but by the time I actually beat them, they've gone from a decent point value to almost nothing because every other desperate post-1K user is hammering away at them.

Some of the other suggestions (e.g. slice 3 isn't as great as I think it is) do seem useful, though!

The solution to this is finding players on your own leaderboard, or on top alliances. You can check their current scores at any time, so you know their blue remains high. And they are also more likely to protect their scores with shields.

The downside is that they likely have good rosters, but you don't get very far in the endgame if you can beat premier 4* teams (though it is currently still possible for 4* players to avoid max 5*s and boosted 4*s, but it will be getting harder and harder as people build their rosters).

kensterr

Use LINE to coordinate cupcake eating. And eat cupcakes after they are shielded. Those cupcakes lose points because ignorant eaters can't wait a wee bit longer to eat them, or don't want to spend HP on shields. Yes, you can't have your cake and eat it too! Or rather you can have your cake and eat it too provided you use shields.

Halordon

My roster is comparable to yours, I´m also in Slice 3 and I see the same thing. If I´m lucky I can get a 40+ match after 15 skips. Some skips actually bring me the same team I wanted to skip again.

What I do: Over the first 2 days I slowly climb to 600-800. Sometimes I overpace so I can get juicy retaliation targets. Then I jump in the shark tank of the final 3 hours and get my 1000 progress.

1300? I hit it twice in my 850 days of game play. (1 time with the new IM + Ice. Wow is this team fast). No way to hit that without line. Not enough unshielded players.
I got line, but I just don´t enjoy battle chats. So I just play and am happy with the 1k.

On the other hand: My HP stack is already > 8500 and I don´t know what to do with it. Shield hopping is stress for me.

cheers,
Halordon

bobbyfish

having Hulkbustered up recently I've discovered this as well! 1000 is usually more achievable now, but I don't even bother towards 1300 because of all the 5 point matchups, it's barren out there! I just shield at 1000 and call it a day. I'd rather play PVE for the other rewards, and that's saying something.

Magic

Same boat here. I have Hulkbuster at 275 and normally I can get to 1k. But anything above is a pipe dream. I don't want to use line (i understand the benefits but also see the problems - been there with another game) so i had maybe 2-3 cupcakes in recent months. So basically I can get to 1k and that's it. But that means low rewards (the 4* is not always needed and I don't get enough CP to have a chance of 5*).

Sadly as many in this thread - slice 3 is most convinient for my gameplay. I might experiment with the slices more but all others are just poorly timed. I think I need to stockpile a bit of HP before I make a serious push at 1,3k (and I need Iceman to be maxed - so far ~250 with one cover still missing)>

mpqr7

Once you get a team that's good enough to beat two maxed 4* teams, then it gets a looooooootttttttt easier. And eventually, you'll be able to beat teams with a 4* and a 5* that's only around lv 330 or less. Plus make sure you join a shard with high scores.

GrumpySmurf1002

dcopelov wrote:

1.) Is everyone else deep in 4* land (but not 5* land) seeing the same thing, so I should just accept it?
2.) Are all the people with strong 5* rosters basically win-trading with each other to hit 2K+ in every PVP, and if so, is that by design?

1) Not really. I ran out of targets at 1230 this time (also slice 3). I've had runs in that slice up to 1400-1500, and some that dry up at 1k. Timing can be a big thing in that slice. Points tend to come in waves. And for this event, a lot of the crazies were "only" around 2k and not 3k+, which dries up the group behind it a bit. I also spend roughly 2k in skips per event, cost of business as sometimes you have to be patient and fight through the Q hell.

2) 100%, and it's not really by design persay, I don't think this was the devs intention. There's nothing they can really do about it though. Any change that's been made (like nerfing defensive wins) is immediately countered with a new strategy.

xidragonxi

You really need to join an alliance that uses Line for battle chats. The only way to score major points with minimal effort is to coordinate your play with other players in your alliance, and other players outside of your alliance. I too struggled to get to 1000 and past it for a long time, but now that I'm using Line, I get to 1300 easily, and I only don't climb more because I don't want to spend HP on shields for minimal return.

If you're in such an alliance already, talk to your commander about hooking you up with the chatrooms.

For reference - I'm a mostly-transitioned 4* player with four champed 4*s and several others covered who just need ISO. Getting to 1300 in PVPs really accelerated that transition though. I checked out my gamependium roster yesterday and as of six months ago only had one 4* fully covered.

simonsez

dcopelov wrote:

To VA5's point about cupcakes:

I used to pre-load cupcake matches before shield hopping, but by the time I actually beat them, they've gone from a decent point value to almost nothing because every other desperate post-1K user is hammering away at them.

Those aren't cupcakes.

dcopelov

Can you please define cupcakes, then?

SnowcaTT

I attribute this to the rise of 5*'s. You either have them, or you don't.

I have champed HB/Jean/Cyc. Those were great to get me some time (not immediate hits) maybe three seasons back. But now if you put a 4* team out there, -you- are the target, since you are one of the few at high points that aren't 5*.

The other thing I'd attribute that to is a higher use of shields. With little else to do with HP, everyone is shielded almost all the time.

Ruinate

dcopelov wrote:

Can you please define cupcakes, then?

To me it sounds like you are finding A teams that are as easy as cakes. Check their roster and if this cake team is the best team they can field, then they probably won't be shielded and get hammered.

If you check their roster and they have 4*'s then it's pretty much guaranteed they will shield after baking to keep their score. This would be a true cake. Unless it's offseason.

madsalad

Ruinate wrote:

dcopelov wrote:

Can you please define cupcakes, then?

To me it sounds like you are finding A teams that are as easy as cakes. Check their roster and if this cake team is the best team they can field, then they probably won't be shielded and get hammered.

If you check their roster and they have 4*'s then it's pretty much guaranteed they will shield after baking to keep their score. This would be a true cake. Unless it's offseason.

This isn't necessarily true if they are following the A-cc-A method of unshield, play A team, play cupcake and quick play another A team before shielding. It all depends on how they approach the baking. While it is safer to wait like two minutes after baking up the cc and then sheilding, if you want to be able to break shield and not get beaten to death later, you should try to play a quick a-team match after baking so that when you shield, and subsequently break shield later, you are not on defense with a cc.

And for the rest of this thread, yes, slice definitely matters. I just posted in another thread about a recent experience I had. During Colossus, though I do not have a champed/maxed Colossus, I reached 1.3K for the first time ever. Why? Top tier scores in the slice were 2.8k+ and many cupcakes were being floated. Compare that to my 1am slice for R&G where I barely broke 1K and the top score in the slice was only 1.1K. The more cupcakes, the higher the scores, the higher the cupcakes (and straight battles), the higher everyone scores getting closer to progression rewards. Progression is the goal, not placement.