Collecting vs Competing

TheWerebison

Disclaimer: I am posting this as someone who is "part of the problem". That being said, many people who read this will probably still get upset at me, assuming I'm talking down to them. Rest assured, I am not.

I'd been taking a break from the game, as I do every once in a while when the futility of trying to catch up gets to me. I'm enjoying the championing system very much, even though I realize they nerfed how much bonus you get from boosting.

Came back onto the forums. Saw the usual posts of vitriol. People still unsatisfied with how hard it is to get covers, CP, and insurmountable amount of ISO needed to level characters. I feel that pain. But it made me wonder. Maybe a lot of us are just playing the wrong game.

One people I don't see complaining that much are the whales. The people who are in the top alliances, that earn tons of bonus CP from said alliances, that can afford to purchase and max the very best characters. Those that use the game's flawed systems to maximize their profit. Which isn't cheating, don't get me wrong, I'm not even gonna hate. But these are the people the game is really tailored to. Yet that isn't the main people this game attracted.

I think the problem actually lies with us. People like me, people that want a robust roster. People that enjoy Marvel games and Puzzle Quest. People that want to play and enjoy a game. That's the crux. There are those who want to play a game, who I believe are the majority, and there are those who want to play a sport.

"Uh, sports are games." Duh, but they are also sports. Let me throw Starcraft 2 out there. I enjoy the game, doing the storyline, earning the new units, learning how they work so I can finish the game. But the competitive aspect is where most people find the enjoyment. The sport of it. And the people who do the best on that competitive level are the ones willing to put the time, effort, and resources into being the best. SC2 is balanced around its pvp aspect. As is MPQ.

I think a lot of us are looking for more game. I credit D3 for putting more things in that aren't competitive. First there was the prologue, then other things were added, like DDQ, Gauntlet, and the Alliance boss battles. But maybe it's not enough for the people who want a game. Unless you spend money, and TONS of it, getting anywhere...well, it may be impossible, because the goalposts keep expanding faster than one can reach them through effort alone.

I think that's where the disparity lies. I'd probably get the console version, if the roster didn't suck. Maybe once it improves, I'd buy it. But this game is not going to change. D3 is making good money from the competitive aspect of it, from the people that are willing to pay the cost to be the best. End of story. They'll keep adding more stuff, to be sure. But it's not going to change the game. This is a sport with game aspects. And there's no sense getting too worked up. Make opinions known, to be sure, that's the only way to improve. But right now, it's basically like being a middle-aged accountant complaining that your company football team isn't going to make the NFL playoffs.

carrion_pigeons

I don't disagree with anything you said, but MPQ isn't a good sport either. There aren't enough skill elements. The competitive aspect of the game is "see who can spend the most money".

Slarow

TheWerebison wrote:

I think the problem actually lies with us. People like me, people that want a robust roster. People that enjoy Marvel games and Puzzle Quest. People that want to play and enjoy a game. That's the crux. There are those who want to play a game, who I believe are the majority, and there are those who want to play a sport.

"Uh, sports are games." Duh, but they are also sports. Let me throw Starcraft 2 out there. I enjoy the game, doing the storyline, earning the new units, learning how they work so I can finish the game. But the competitive aspect is where most people find the enjoyment. The sport of it. And the people who do the best on that competitive level are the ones willing to put the time, effort, and resources into being the best. SC2 is balanced around its pvp aspect. As is MPQ.

I think a lot of us are looking for more game. I credit D3 for putting more things in that aren't competitive. First there was the prologue, then other things were added, like DDQ, Gauntlet, and the Alliance boss battles. But maybe it's not enough for the people who want a game. Unless you spend money, and TONS of it, getting anywhere...well, it may be impossible, because the goalposts keep expanding faster than one can reach them through effort alone.

Other than not placing top 100 in PVP, what exactly is it that you are missing out on? If placing top in PVP is what you really want, then you are a sport person, not a "People that want to play and enjoy a game" person as you described.

Calnexin

It takes a culling of the competitive spirit to enjoy the game.

People with tons of cash willing to spend thousands on the game don't need to, obviously. Even at the lower tiers, "rich get richer" is the crux of the game. It generates revenue and dangles a very large carrot a very long distance away for the player base.

I have no hope of upper-echelon play. I already feel bad playing as much as I do with moderate cash expenditure. I spent an hour last night grinding out the Grocket event to get the CPs, because I knew I couldn't hit the nodes optimally and just wanted the CP rewards. For a guy like me - one who doesn't access games at work and has family responsibilities - even if I paid for the roster I'd never take top slot in a veteran bracket.

I still enjoy the game, though. I just don't expect much in the way of reward. I get to the tier I think I can get to with my roster. It's usually not worth shielding, so I don't. That would be a waste of hp. I just stop when I decide I've had enough and hope I don't get bumped out of a reward tier.

Any individual player should take that into consideration. How much are you willing to put into the game - money and time? If it's too frustrating, take it down a notch. Stop grinding so hard and play more casually so you can spend time on other things in your life.

TheWerebison

Yeah, I'm not complaining. I'm enjoying what I've got, just doing my DDQ and going for progression rewards. I'm just telling people, y'know, it's not worth stressing over. If you don't want to pay, that's cool, but don't expect that the game will ever change to make stuff wildly more accessible. As long as people are willing to pay huge amounts for in game currencies, it will always take a long time to obtain without paying. Find a few really good characters, try to focus on them, and you will gradually, eventually, fill out your roster and get them leveled.

jimstarooney

carrion pigeons wrote:

I don't disagree with anything you said, but MPQ isn't a good sport either. There aren't enough skill elements. The competitive aspect of the game is "see who can spend the most money".

I disagree,the skill in dismantling teams durin hops is quite high when facing similar levelled teams.trying to do 3 or more theres an art to it.

firethorne

jimstarooney wrote:

carrion pigeons wrote:

I don't disagree with anything you said, but MPQ isn't a good sport either. There aren't enough skill elements. The competitive aspect of the game is "see who can spend the most money".

I disagree,the skill in dismantling teams durin hops is quite high when facing similar levelled teams.trying to do 3 or more theres an art to it.

So, there's skill required between the time you make a purchase so you don't lose and making a second purchase so you don't lose. Fair enough.

TheWerebison

He's not wrong. If you don't bring the right team to beat the 3 teams you've chosen to fight in enough time, you will likely be attacked multiple times and wind up losing more points than you gain.

grunzadin

jimstarooney wrote:

carrion pigeons wrote:

I don't disagree with anything you said, but MPQ isn't a good sport either. There aren't enough skill elements. The competitive aspect of the game is "see who can spend the most money".

I disagree,the skill in dismantling teams durin hops is quite high when facing similar levelled teams.trying to do 3 or more theres an art to it.

A match 3 game requires a pulse, a thumb and a three minute attention span.

The concept of "skill cap" is commonly discussed in e-sports, i.e., how hard is it to be great at a game vs merely average. I can't imagine many games having a lower skill cap than MPQ.

I don't mean that in a negative way -- it's just that this game is clearly designed to be accessible to the masses. My mom plays Bejeweled competently but wouldn't know how to turn on a PS4.

JVReal

grunzadin wrote:

jimstarooney wrote:

carrion pigeons wrote:

I don't disagree with anything you said, but MPQ isn't a good sport either. There aren't enough skill elements. The competitive aspect of the game is "see who can spend the most money".

I disagree,the skill in dismantling teams durin hops is quite high when facing similar levelled teams.trying to do 3 or more theres an art to it.

A match 3 game requires a pulse, a thumb and a three minute attention span.

The concept of "skill cap" is commonly discussed in e-sports, i.e., how hard is it to be great at a game vs merely average. I can't imagine many games having a lower skill cap than MPQ.

I don't mean that in a negative way -- it's just that this game is clearly designed to be accessible to the masses. My mom plays Bejeweled competently but wouldn't know how to turn on a PS4.

And chess only requires 2 fingers and mobility in your arm. And in basketball all you have to do is put a ball in a hole, and football you just have to get an oval across a line.

Yet there is strategy that goes on beyond the simplistic descriptions given.

grunzadin

JVReal wrote:

Yet there is strategy that goes on beyond the simplistic descriptions given.

My post had more than one sentence, and the rest of those sentences address this very point.

MPQ is a relatively easy game. It requires no manual dexterity or sense of timing. If you could quantify a player's skill level, my guess is that you're 90% as good at this game after playing it for 5 hours as you ever will be.

Some players are better than others, but placement in PVP and PVE events is driven disproportionately by time and money spent. I place top 10 in every PVE event I participate in and it's definitely not because I'm one of the 10 best players in my bracket.

TxMoose

grunzadin wrote:

MPQ is a relatively easy game. It requires no manual dexterity or sense of timing. If you could quantify a player's skill level, my guess is that you're 90% as good at this game after playing it for 5 hours as you ever will be.

Some players are better than others, but placement in PVP and PVE events is driven disproportionately by time and money spent. I place top 10 in every PVE event I participate in and it's definitely not because I'm one of the 10 best players in my bracket.

at it's basic level it is a very easy game. at some level of performance though, separation in placement somewhat becomes some level of skill, otherwise we'd just be all separated by roster strength, which placement is not. by definition, your pve performance is t10 in your brackets. that is a combination of skill and time commitment/effort. in pvp, 'skill' can be either using line or, like others of us, knowing when/where points will be available. and then going and getting those points without being rude enough to make it onto a hitlist. that's more skill than "has a device and a thumb". really its less of "skill", but more "effort", with a gateway minimum level of roster strength and a minimum "skill" level. there are many 3* players that make it up near to and above 2K in pvp on a regular basis, but it takes skill/effort to do so (the weaker the roster, the more hopping hp required = effort). skill is involved there. it takes some skill to make it through 3 cakes during a hop fast enough to reshield before that first hit comes through. it takes some skill to take down that mid-300s OML on that last fight of your big push for 75 pts. it also takes some roster management skill to grind effectively without blowing through dozens of healthpacks. I have to disagree with your assessment of skill needed for the top portion of the game.