Return cards to hand is not Destruction, please fix

Phaserhawk

I have used numerous blue cards that return creatures back to their owners hands, but the game considers this destruction and allows some triggers, like murder witness to activate, this is a big bug that needs to be fixed

Unknown

Not sure if I totally understand what you wanna say.

Bounce changed with 1.3

Pre 1.3 you could use bounce everytime and when the opponent already had his hand full before the bounce, it would destroy the card.

Since 1.3 you can only use bounce when there is actually space for it in the opponents hand. Even tokens that get just destroyed you must have this space in order to being able to use it.

Unknown

The OP is describing a scenario where he/she, the Jace player, successfully uses a bounce on a Gideon player that has Murder Investigation in play. The OP is saying that the bounce is triggering the Soldier token from Murder Investigation erroneously; a bounced creature is not the same as destroyed creature.

Unknown

Ah now I got it.

Well, as jace is my main pw, I can see that this can be annoying. But the text on murder investigation does say that it activates when one creature gets destroyed. Doesn't say how it gets destroyed. Bouncing a token, does destroy it so I can see why it activates murder investigation.

If it activates on bouncing a non token then that would be a bug.

Unknown

Destroyed in this game most always means "leaves play".

But sometimes it means "enters graveyard". I agree it needs clarification

Irgy

Displacement Wave still (by design) destroys creatures against a full hand (or against an almost full hand with multiple creatures in play) post v1.3 patch .

I think this is a design choice not a bug. This game is not MtG, it's a game of its own and if they want to say that bounced tokens or bounced cards against an empty hand means they're destroyed then that's their choice. You can say it's an unintuitive design, but that's not the same thing as a bug.

Which is not to say they shouldn't fix the design mind you, but it's not a simple fix it would require a significant rethinking.

OhanaUnited

What if the bounce is on a stacked creature? From what I see right now, bounce only returns 1 card back to your hand and not multiples.

Upstartes

If a card actually shows up in your opponents' hand after a bounce, it shouldn't trigger a "destroys" activation - i.e. Murder Investigation shouldn't trigger. The creature can come back - it hasn't been destroyed. If a token is destroyed or Displacement Wave destroys by bouncing to a full hand, then the "destroyed" effects should trigger.

It's not just that "this is how paper Magic does it." It gives "bounce" additional flavor separating it from cards that destroy, and gives it a very slight boost, which is fine, because the full-hand thing is a big drawback to work around.

Unknown

This makes Murder Investigation a type of counter to bounce seeing as bounce destroys tokens and Soldiers are tokens; it's recursive.

Phaserhawk

That's the issue I was having. The AI had some supports out that made the 1/1 a 6/6, when I would bounce it, it would get "destroyed" activate murder investigation and create another one.

Unknown

If that is the case, it's working as intended. Bounce destroys token creature, MI summons new token. It fits the verbiage.