Silver Surfer and Nova's Rocket Man Ability

fight4thedream

As many of you are aware, Nova's Rocket Man ability sends an enemy airborne, with the exceptions of Galactus and Ultron. I believe Silver Surfer should also be immune to this ability for 2 reasons: 1. in terms of comiclore, this was a feat his predecessor Richard Rider was unable to do with the full power of the Nova Force, and 2. it furthers degrades Silver Surfer status in the 5* tier. I am certain the development team had their reasons for including Silver Surfer in those affected by the ability but I ask that they reconsider; one of the design goals of the game is to capture "the flavor" of a character, and I argue permitting Nova's Rocket Man to send Silver Surfer airborne grants Nova a level of power the character never had and does not do justice to Silver Surfer's power level both in terms of his comic powers and his status as a 5* character.

For those unfamiliar Nova's predecessor Richard Rider, utilizing the whole power of the Nova Force, was handily defeated by Silver Surfer in the pages of Nova (volume 4 issue 14). He even attempted a Rocket Man like move at full power and failed to faze the Sentinel of the Spaceways, much more knock him off his board. I present a portion of that battle:









And for those interested in the conclusion, I will include it in the following spoiler:

I understand the development team has their design goals and in the case of Ultron they need to preserve the viability of his boss battle but by allowing Nova's Rocket Man ability to affect Silver Surfer, they have essentially devalued his unique invulnerability to being stunned. It is very well known that Silver Surfer is considered the "weakest" among the 5* tier, an issue I will pursue in my later discussion of the 5* tier and High end PvP play, and this only further marginalizes the character.

So I request, humbly but sincerely, that one of two courses of action be considered:

1. Along with his current invulnerability to being stunned, Silver Surfer be given invulnerability to being sent airborne.

Or

2. At the very least, exempt him from being sent airborne by Nova's Rocket Man ability. Similar to how Profressor X cannot be sent airborne by Colossus.

Nova is a fun and awesome addition to the game, but as a comic fan his ability to send Silver Surfer airborne goes beyond my ability to suspend disbelief. I acknowledge this is not a game breaking issue, but I feel it is an important one. If one of the development team's goals is to capture the essence of a character, I feel here they may have fallen a bit short.

As always, thank you for your hard work.

A true believer,
fight4thedreamﾞ☆⌒o(*^ｰﾟ)v

CNash

You might as well have asked why the Human Torch isn't immune to fire-based attacks...

LegendReborn

Why is spider man allowed to be hit by match damage? His spidey sense should at least give him enough ability to react to basic strikes. /s

madsalad

A salient argument for SS to not be sent airborne. His Power Cosmic (coupled with his 5* status) should help him to withstand such an attack.

Thumbs up OP. This is a small flavor-enhancement the devs should be able to make no problem and it is in line with the character.

Hendross

The same principle applies to all those who can fly, either mechanically or genetically and is not practical to implement
Ref and entire thread of attacks that don't make sense. e.g Human Torch vs Fire, Pro X vs. Clatrops, Daredevil vs. Penance Stare

pheregas

Agree with OP. Anyone that is immune to stun should also be immune to being temporarily knocked out of the battle.

That being said, unless Surfer has blue, he should still be able to be booted.

Malcrof

Nova does not stun, but sends then airborne, like Fastball Special, so he cannot even take damage while airborne.. if you remove his ability to be thrown (which he can be knocked off his board, and it happens quite often), you nullify the other airborne ability as well.

it is fine as is.

fight4thedream

First, to those who are inquiring about other inconsistencies regarding comiclore and game mechanics, you are only focusing on one part of my argument, the sexy part. Believe me, it irks me to no end that Earth's mightiest heroes fall to common street thugs and mercenaries again and again. But it's something we have to accept to a certain degree (more impressive NPC characters like Sentinels and Dark Elves are always welcome though).

The real meat and potatoes part of the issue, on the other hand, is that it directly ties into Silver Surfer's viability and value in terms of PvP play. His inability to be stunned is his standout characteristic but Nova's Rocket Man basically puts a large dent in its value.

Furthermore, I am not asking for an explanation; although I would of course appreciate one if provided. I am simply voicing my discontent and making a request that the matter be reconsidered. Again, the comiclore part is only half of the issue, the other half has to do with his 5* status. The development team does look over things like character use numbers and game balance, and I believe once Nova becomes a more prevalent character and people have added other viable 5* characters to their roster, Silver Surfer will fall into disuse for PvP. Let's be honest, Silver Surfer is widely considered the weakest among 5* characters and this issue only further takes away from his skill set.

Finally, if those inconsistencies are issues that are important to you, you have every right to present your best argument for a change. This is not the only time I have voiced my dissent against a character's power in-game. I still fight for the cause of having 3* Spider-man's magic yellow healing ability changed and my hope is with the update in art and word of 3* buffs on the horizon that I will finally see that day, when 3* Spidey is truly amazing. But if you want anything to change in the game, you have to let the development team know. Ask and you shall receive, amigos, ask and you shall receive! (well maybe lol)

pheregas wrote:

Agree with OP. Anyone that is immune to stun should also be immune to being temporarily knocked out of the battle.

That being said, unless Surfer has blue, he should still be able to be booted.

Agreed on both points.(*'-')b

Malcrof

fight4thedream wrote:

The real meat and potatoes part of the issue, on the other hand, is that it directly ties into Silver Surfer's viability and value in terms of PvP play. His inability to be stunned is his standout characteristic but Nova's Rocket Man basically puts a large dent in its value.

Counter mechanics are a part of the game though.. people can ignore shield tiles now, JG made PX a bit rougher to use, etc.. so there needed to be a counter to "unstunnable" somewhere.

fight4thedream

Malcrof wrote:

fight4thedream wrote:

The real meat and potatoes part of the issue, on the other hand, is that it directly ties into Silver Surfer's viability and value in terms of PvP play. His inability to be stunned is his standout characteristic but Nova's Rocket Man basically puts a large dent in its value.

Counter mechanics are a part of the game though.. people can ignore shield tiles now, JG made PX a bit rougher to use, etc.. so there needed to be a counter to "unstunnable" somewhere.

I don't disagree with you on the issue of counter mechanics, Mal, but I believe Nova is an inappropriate choice on both the count that it is not a feat he could achieve in comic lore and they are not on the same star tier level. Professor X and Jean Grey, HulkBuster and Iceman, OML and BIB Spidey, these all make sense both in terms of the comics and/or star tier.

As the comic I referenced above clearly indicates, Nova is nowhere near Silver Surfer's level and even in game he is not on the same star tier. If they gave the ability to a boss like Thanos or Mephisto or to a 5* version of Thor, it would make a lot more sense. In short, 5* characters are supposed to be a class above the rest; Nova's Rocket Man stands in clear contradiction of this.

pheregas

Mod fight!

Unknown

fight4thedream wrote:

I don't disagree with you on the issue of counter mechanics, Mal, but I believe Nova is an inappropriate choice on both the count that it is not a feat he could achieve in comic lore and they are not on the same star tier level. Professor X and Jean Grey, HulkBuster and Iceman, OML and BIB Spidey, these all make sense both in terms of the comics and/or star tier.

As the comic I referenced above clearly indicates, Nova is nowhere near Silver Surfer's level and even in game he is not on the same star tier. If they gave the ability to a boss like Thanos or Mephisto or to a 5* version of Thor, it would make a lot more sense. In short, 5* characters are supposed to be a class above the rest; Nova's Rocket Man stands in clear contradiction of this.

Silver Surfer is an entity that moves beyond the speed of light, can survive inside a black hole and literally destroys planets so how exactly do you explain any character in the entire game being able to even hit him at all let alone injure or even kill him?
For example The Punisher a 3* with no super powers at all is somehow still able to throw a molotov cocktail at SS, hit him with 100% accuracy, deal damage to him with fire and potentially kill him according to MPQ.

Nova hitting SS hard enough to be "sent flying" is far less egregious than a hundred other examples.

JVReal

I just don't like the fact that if the player is sent flying, and he's the only one left in the battle, he will be brought back down immediately. You don't get free turns to gather AP like you do when they are stunned. Pissed me off in the Nova PVP.

Sent SS flying for the allotted turns because Nova was coming back down next turn, and it shows them both with a stun count, but when their turn arrives they both show up again because there weren't any active players for the turn. WTH?

jojeda654

JVReal wrote:

I just don't like the fact that if the player is sent flying, and he's the only one left in the battle, he will be brought back down immediately.

That's been a bug since Colossus was introduced. They said they were gonna fix it in an upcoming release. Looks like they finally have some time to look at some bugs.

viewtopic.php?p=475648#p475648

Cthulhu wrote:

• Heroes will return from being airborne immediately on that player's next turn if there is only one hero left on that player's team. This will be addressed in R95.

Buret0

JVReal wrote:

I just don't like the fact that if the player is sent flying, and he's the only one left in the battle, he will be brought back down immediately. You don't get free turns to gather AP like you do when they are stunned. Pissed me off in the Nova PVP.

Sent SS flying for the allotted turns because Nova was coming back down next turn, and it shows them both with a stun count, but when their turn arrives they both show up again because there weren't any active players for the turn. WTH?

They said the landing thing is a bug and will be fixed. They just need to make sure that abilities don't fire when there are no valid targets. You don't want the user or the AI to waste AP on an ability when the only valid target is airborne. I'm pretty sure they don't let you cast when the only valid target is invisible (?).

Sending a 4-turn stun character airborne also causes them to lose their stun.

Sending a goon airborne currently means their CD tiles are still going down.

This also needs to be fixed for Colossus and before they implement any other Airborne abilities, such as:

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=31920#p393882

Tanooki Mario 1*:

Fly - 8 AP
Tanooki Mario takes a running start and flies through the air. Gains [Airborne] status for 3 turns. Upon landing, deals X damage to a random enemy.

Level Upgrades

Level 2: Deals X damage to a random enemy. Level 3: Airborne for 1 less turn, deals X damage to a random enemy. Level 4: Deals X damage to two random enemies. Level 5: Deals X damage to all enemies.

1* Yoshi:

Boing! - 8 AP
Yoshi jumps in the air and smashes down on his enemies. Gains [Airborne] status for 2 turns and deals X damage to the enemy when he lands.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Gains [Airborne] status for 2 turns and deals +X damage to the enemy when he lands. Level 3: Gains [Airborne] status for 2 turns and deals +X damage to the enemy when he lands. Level 4: Gains [Airborne] status for 2 turns and deals +X damage to the enemy when he lands. Level 5: Gains [Airborne] status for 2 turns and deals -X damage to the enemy team when he lands.

Mario 2*:

Cape Power - 6 AP
Mario flies into the sky and dive bombs the enemy. Mario gains [Airborne] status for 2 turns, upon landing does X damage to the enemy.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Mario gains [Airborne] status for 2 turns, upon landing does +X damage to the enemy. Level 3: Mario gains [Airborne] status for 2 turns, upon landing does +X damage to the enemy. Level 4: Mario gains [Airborne] status for 2 turns, upon landing does +X damage to the enemy. Level 5: Mario gains [Airborne] status for 1 turn, upon landing does +X damage to the enemy.

2* Luigi (Baguigi):

High Jump (passive)
Luigi senses danger and tries to escape. If Luigi takes damage from an ability he gains [Airborne] status for 5 turns. At the start of any turn where Luigi is Airborne, he heals X damage. Upon landing, Luigi deals X damage.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: If Luigi takes damage from an ability he gains [Airborne] status for 6 turns. At the start of any turn where Luigi is Airborne, he heals X damage. Upon landing, Luigi deals XX damage. Level 3: If Luigi takes damage from an ability he gains [Airborne] status for 6 turns. At the start of any turn where Luigi is Airborne, he heals +X damage. Upon landing, Luigi deals XX damage. Level 4: If Luigi takes damage from an ability he gains [Airborne] status for 4 turns. At the start of any turn where Luigi is Airborne, he heals +X damage. Upon landing, Luigi deals XX damage. Level 5: If Luigi takes damage from any source he gains [Airborne] status for 4 turns. At the start of any turn where Luigi is Airborne, he heals +X damage. Upon landing, Luigi deals XX damage.

Roy 3*:

Dragon Slayer - 11 AP
Roy sends his opponent flying with a well timed smash. Deals X damage to the opponent and grants the opponent [Airborne] status for 1 turn. When the opponent lands, deal X damage to that opponent again.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Deals +X damage to the opponent and grants the opponent [Airborne] status for 1 turn. When the opponent lands, deal +X damage to that opponent again. Level 3: Deals X damage to the opponent and grants the opponent [Airborne] status for 2 turns. When the opponent lands, deal X damage to that opponent again. Level 4: Deals +X damage to the opponent and grants the opponent [Airborne] status for 2 turns. When the opponent lands, deal +X damage to that opponent again. Level 5: Deals ++X damage to the opponent and grants the opponent [Airborne] status for 2 turns. When the opponent lands, deal ++X damage to that opponent again.

Dragoon

!Jump 6 AP
Gain [Airborne] status for 2 turns. When you land, deal +X damage.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Gain [Airborne] status for 2 turns. When you land, deal +X damage. Level 3: Gain [Airborne] status for 2 turns. When you land, deal +X damage. Level 4: Gain [Airborne] status for 1 turn. When you land, deal X damage. Level 5: Gain [Airborne] status for 1 turn. When you land, deal +X damage.

!Double Jump 7 AP
Gain [Airborne] status for 2 turns. When you land, deal X damage to a random enemy and gain [Airborne] status for 1 turn and deal X damage to a random enemy.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Gain [Airborne] status for 2 turns. When you land, deal +X damage to a random enemy and gain [Airborne] status for 1 turn and deal X damage to a random enemy. Level 3: Gain [Airborne] status for 2 turns. When you land, deal +X damage to a random enemy and gain [Airborne] status for 1 turn and deal X damage to a random enemy. Level 4: Gain [Airborne] status for 1 turn. When you land, deal X damage to a random enemy and gain [Airborne] status for 1 turn and deal X damage to a random enemy. Level 5: Gain [Airborne] status for 1 turn. When you land, deal +X damage to a random enemy and gain [Airborne] status for 1 turn and deal X damage to a random enemy.

Kain Highwind

Hard Landing 7 AP
Kain leaps high into the air to drive his lance into the heart of his enemies. Gain [Airborne] status for 4 turns. When you land, deal X damage.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Gain [Airborne] status for 4 turns. When you land, deal +X damage. Level 3: Gain [Airborne] status for 4 turns. When you land, deal +X damage. Level 4: Gain [Airborne] status for 3 turns. When you land, deal +X damage. Level 5: Gain [Airborne] status for 3 turns. When you land, deal +X damage.

Holy Dragoon 14 AP
Kain's victory at Mt. Ordeals transforms him into the Holy Dragoon. Gain [Airborne] status for 2 turns. When you land, deal X damage and an additional Y damage to all enemies whose primary color is black.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Gain [Airborne] status for 2 turns. When you land, deal X damage and an additional Y damage to all enemies whose primary color is black. Level 3: Gain [Airborne] status for 2 turns. When you land, deal X damage and an additional Y damage to all enemies whose primary color is black. Level 4: Gain [Airborne] status for 2 turns. When you land, deal X damage and an additional Y damage to all enemies whose primary color is black. Level 5: Gain [Airborne] status for 2 turns. When you land, deal X damage and an additional Y damage to all enemies whose primary color is black.

Barrett Wallace

Catastrophe 14 AP
Barrett leaps high into the air and unleashes an incinerating beam on his enemies. Gains [Airborne] status for 2 turns. Upon landing, deal X damage to a random enemy 8 times.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Barrett leaps high into the air and unleashes an incinerating beam on his enemies. Gains [Airborne] status for 2 turns. Upon landing, deal X damage to a random enemy 10 times. Level 3: Barrett leaps high into the air and unleashes an incinerating beam on his enemies. Gains [Airborne] status for 2 turns. Upon landing, deal X damage to a random enemy 12 times. Level 4: Barrett leaps high into the air and unleashes an incinerating beam on his enemies. Gains [Airborne] status for 1 turn. Upon landing, deal X damage to a random enemy 12 times. Level 5: Barrett leaps high into the air and unleashes an incinerating beam on his enemies. Gains [Airborne] status for 1 turns. Upon landing, deal X damage to a random enemy 16 times.

Tifa Lockhart

Meteor Strike 10 AP
Tifa grabs an enemy, leaps high into the air, and drives the enemy into the ground. Tifa gains [Airborne] status for 1 turn and the enemy gain [Airborne] status for 2 turns. When Tifa lands, deal X damage to her. When the enemy lands deal Y damage to it.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Tifa gains [Airborne] status for 1 turn and the enemy gains [Airborne] status for 2 turns. When Tifa lands, deal X damage to her. When the enemy lands deal +Y damage to it. Level 3: Tifa gains [Airborne] status for 1 turn and the enemy gains [Airborne] status for 2 turns. When Tifa lands, deal -X damage to her. When the enemy lands deal +Y damage to it. Level 4: Tifa gains [Airborne] status for 1 turn and the enemy gains [Airborne] status for 2 turns. When Tifa lands, deal -X damage to her. When the enemy lands deal Y damage to it. Level 5: Tifa gains [Airborne] status for 1 turn and the enemy gains [Airborne] status for 2 turns. When Tifa lands, deal -X damage to her. When the enemy lands deal +Y damage to it.

Cloud Strife

Meteorain 10 AP
Cloud leaps into the air and brings down a wave of meteors on his enemies. Cloud gains [Airborne] status for 2 turns. Upon landing: Consumes all MP and deals X damage to a random enemy for every 3 MP consumed.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Consumes all MP. Deals +X damage to a random enemy for every 3 MP consumed. Level 3: Consumes all MP. Deals +X damage to a random enemy for every 3 MP consumed. Level 4: Consumes all MP. Deals +X damage to a random enemy for every 3 MP consumed. Level 5: Consumes all MP. Deals -X damage to a random enemy for every 2 MP consumed.

Gilgamesh

Dragoon (passive)
At the start of each turn, consume 6 AP to gain 1-turn [Airborne] status. When he lands, deal X damage to a random character.

Gilgamesh Ω

Sword Selection (passive)
Gilgamesh grabs a selection of his swords from the rift and throws them onto the battlefield. After choosing one to attack with, he sends the others back into the rift.

Consumes 4 AP. Place 4 3-turn Famous Sword tiles on basic tiles of the same random color. When the CD reaches 0, destroy all friendly Famous Sword tiles of the same color and 12.5% chance of each of the following: Neo Excalibur, deals X damage; Zantetsuken, inflicts 7 turn [Countdown] on the party; Buster Sword, deals Y damage 8 times to random enemies; Kain's Lance, 1 turn [Airborne], deals X to random on landing; Lion Heart, Deals Y damage to an enemy for every basic tile on the board; Masamune, target gains 2-turn [Airborne] and then receives X damage on landing; Caladbolg, deal Y damage to all enemies and place a strength Z strike tile; and Chaos' Revenge, deal Y damage to all enemies and inflict 2-turn stun.

Cypr3ss

Buret0 wrote:

I'm pretty sure they don't let you cast when the only valid target is invisible (?).

For the human opponent this is the case, for the AI, they are still able to fire off their Team-Up if they've got enough TU AP even when the entire team is stunned.

Regards,
Cypr3ss.