Championing and the semi-retired Veteran

Vhailorx

I am semi-retired (ddq only) and have been ever since the underwhelming Year 2 anniversary. I have a 5 fully covered 4*s (IMHB, XFW, Kingpin, Fury, Elektra), a handful more with 10+ covers (4* Thor, Xpool, Prof. X, IW), and pretty much ever other 4* up through Ghost Rider at 3-9 covers. I don't have any of the more recent releases. I have every 3* character cover maxed, and all the 2*s I want. the total is 70 something roster slots. So it's a well developed roster, but I haven't spent any money on the game in almost 12 months and never kept pace with the 4* release schedule once they went biweekly. From the release of LTs through Champion Day I had earned perhaps 2 dozen LTS and had gotten 1 SS black; no other 5*s.

Given that I didn't always have time to hit 1k in PVP events, never spent the time/HP to hit 1300 regularly, and never had time for the epic end-of-sub grinds required to excel in PVE, I had mostly lost interest in the game. almost all available rewards were not worth the marginal cost of grinding for them. So I went ddq only.

I think I was definitely part of the target demographic for the champion system, and it has resuscitated my interest in the game (I am now posting in the forums again, and have even jumped into a couple of pve events in the last hour when brackets filled). But after several weeks of the new system, I don't know that it will have much long term appeal for me as it really hasn't been much help at all for my roster.

As a result of championing, I have been able to champion 17 3*s so far, with another handful coming up in ddq soon. I have championed 2 4*s (IMHB and XFW). So that is 19 extra legendary tokens (plus another 5 or so from 4* ddq rewards) at the cost of a about 900k ISO (almost all of my stash). I have also earned a bunch of heroic and standard tokens. To date none of them have given me a 4*, but they have resulted in some useful 2* and 3* champion covers.

Of the 25 or so LTs I have pulled since Champion day:

- 4x useless 4* covers (4*s that I had cover maxed, but didn't have enough iso to level or colors that I had maxed on characters with less than 13 covers)
- 4x 5* covers (all Phoenix, who is now at 1/1/2)
- 5x ideal 4* pulls that progress my roster (Iceman, 2x 4* cyc, JG, Rhulk)
- Everything else was treading water, either covers for useless 4* like Flaptain, TA Hulk, and Fantastic, or covers for older 4*s that I technically needed but which don't make a difference to me since I could already win their 4* ddq node and won't ever use them in pvp or pve (Carnage, Prof. X, Antman, IW) unless featured.

I suspect that my outcome is fairly average. I have added a handful of covers to the 4*s I really need, but still don't have a second top tier 4*above 6 covers to pair with IMHB. Since I don't have any of the key purple/green 4*s ready to go, I can't field a truly competitive 4* team, the best I can do is XFW/Xpool, which doesn't have much value defensively in PVP. And a random smattering of LTs won't help me build those characters in a reasonable time frame. I am also slightly above the expected 5* rate, but still a fair ways from a usable 5* (I suspect the tone of this post would be different if I had gotten some OML covers instead of Phoenix, but at least I got 4 of one character instead of a bunch of 1/0/0s). And of course if I don't get the 1/1/1 or better OML covers that I need soon, he will leave the regular LT pool and my only hope of building him will be through CP (of which I earn about 15 a month from daily rewards). Plus I am about half way through the glut of easy LTs provided by championing, but I have already burned most of my iso, so getting the rest of my roster maxed/championed will take many millions of ISO that I can't realistically accumulate at current iso rates.

So it's a very mixed outcome. I have a lot more to play for now in that many more available rewards are useful to my roster. But the distribution of rewards (especially elder game rewards) remains very random (and now without any pressure valve in the form of direct cover buys), so progress is excruciatingly slow. And now I am more or less where I was back at anniversary time: I enjoy the game, but no longer have enough playtime to accumulate resources fast enough to keep pace with the release rate, don't have enough disposable income to whale it up, and am slowly falling further and further behind the curve.

TL;DR Things are better without actually being good. . .

Am I an outlier, or does this story sound familiar to a lot of vets here?

smoq84

Vhailorx wrote:

[...]
Of the 25 or so LTs I have pulled since Champion day:
[...]
- 4x 5* covers (all Phoenix, who is now at 1/1/2)
[...]

Wow! 4 covers out of 25 LTs and all for the same character? Sounds great for me.

I have opened similar number of LTs in that time and had only 1 5*. In fact I have only 3 5* covers at all and each for different character


However I don't really care because I'm still trying to build useful 4*s

Unknown

Already posted this somewhere, but yeah, outside of a month or two, not much value to me.

3*s nowhere near able to fully level (ISO), let alone consider champing, no 4*s even close to champing (20+ 1-2 cover heroes), 2*s approaching limits.

All the 3*s I've gained since the change were sold off, most of 2*s were sold off, and I've gained two 4*s (HBs from G event) which didn't even put a dent in that single hero, so yeah. Decent change, doesn't do much for me.

Day 700+ here, primarily DDQ (sans the 4* node for obvious reasons).

DBC

rkd80

Ahem, pulling FOUR 5* and all the SAME characters out of 25 tokens is significantly above average and I am sure there are many like myself that see this and just sigh. Where we have opened three times that many LTs and have not received a useful 5*.

You are now in a position to actually do some damage in LRs and probably climb higher and float higher in PVP because of your "average" luck. Put it to good use!

No matter how lucky people get, it never appears to be enough.

carrion_pigeons

Well, for not spending any money on the game, you're ahead of the curve. It shouldn't be surprising that you start falling back to average, particularly as your time commitment decreases. The 4* transition is a years-long process by design.

I say, just relax and let the progression happen as it happens. Trying too hard to progress makes the game feel frustrating and slow, but that's a matter of mindset more than anything. From everything I've read (since I'm nowhere close even to where you are), you're kind of in the best part of the meta. Getting into the part of the game where all you see are competitive teams gets pretty stale.

You're definitely underrating Phoenix, though. She should be a useful member of your roster where she is.

LXSandman

You now have a 4 cover 5* with one in each colour. That character is actually useful to you. That is so far from average it's more like "Amazing".

I have drawn from way more LT's then that and haven't gotten A SINGLE 5*. I'm serious .... not one.

But I understand your feelings... If you are not willing to fight the fights in PVP or grind out the PVE's then this game can get pretty boring... even with a 5*

wymtime

The biggest issue in the game right now is ISO. With the latest update a maxed out buffed 4* has huge health and will be very useful in PVP even if it is a lower tier 4*. In gauntlet my HB has 56k health. That is just stupid high. If you can run a max levels 4* that is buffed in PVE it will be enough of a scarecrow just because of how long the match will take.
Edit they have fixed HB to only have 34k health. Still crazy high

XandorXerxes

Folks - he recognizes that he's lucky on his 5* pulls. He's pointing out that now after he's blown through his ISO stash, the pull of championing isn't really there any more and the initial outlay wasn't enough to noticeably change how he can currently play. I can definitely relate.

carrion_pigeons

XandorXerxes wrote:

Folks - he recognizes that he's lucky on his 5* pulls. He's pointing out that now after he's blown through his ISO stash, the pull of championing isn't really there any more and the initial outlay wasn't enough to noticeably change how he can currently play. I can definitely relate.

I understand, but two things:

1) There's nothing wrong with how he currently plays.

2) A useful Phoenix does change how he can play, though.

TxMoose

I can relate even as an active, current player. when it hit I had 5 2*s, 11 3*s maxed at 166, and no maxed 4*s. I maxed 5 more 3*s, champed all my maxed 2*s and 3*s plus I maxed hb and champed him. that was a ton of iso that I was planning on using on those characters anyway (maxing the 5 3*s), but now with the added influx of covers on top of my nearly finished 4*s, I have little to play for other than iso and 5* covers. i somewhat regret splurging before the hp nerf and finishing out so many characters. it will take so much iso for those covers to make a difference, most of those covers would have come in by then anyway. now i just level the best characters whereas before i would have had choices to make because not all the top guys would have been covered. i really only went nuts on ice and cyke but added 1 or 2 to several others as well. my ice is up to 250 though and looking forward to this coming week since i haven't ran him yet outside of pve, so looking forward to that. my obw hit 144 this week and ares and storm aren't far behind. for some reason mnmags and thor covers aren't dropping as fast, but only a matter of time and they're back to selling for iso, but i got some tokens/cp/hp out of it, which is completely worth it for ones you already have maxed.

anyway, TL/DR = the shiny is worn off a little and while it was a fun burst, back to the grind.

PeterGibbons316

I haven't pulled a 5* since Christmas, so I would say that 4 in 25 pulls is well above average.

Vhailorx

The math is pretty straightforward. 5*s drop at 10%, so I should have pulled 2.5 from my 25ish LTs. I beat the curve by 1.5 covers or so. My post acknowledges this. It also notes that I was 1/24+ before Champion Day, so overall I am just about at 10%.

My post also acknowledges that 4 covers for one character is markedly better than one ore two covers for multiple characters. But after using her a bit in lightning rounds and the the SSim, it's pretty clear to me that a 4 cover Phoenix isn't very useful to someone with my roster (a mid 4* transition roster). [author's note: she is still 255. I am sure she would be stronger at 315, but I bet that would also get me significantly tougher matchmaking/scaling and I desperately need the iso to max/champ by 3*/4* roster] Sure, her match damage is great. But it also means she tanks all her colors all the time. So she eats a lot of damage. And while from the ashes mitigates that problem a bit, it's much less reliable than regen. Sometimes you get screwed and she goes down permanently. After res her green is a decent AOE attack, but the self damage makes it unsustainable most of the time. Her purple power is great whenever I get a match 5 and have specials on the board, but otherwise it transforms 3 basic tiles to red atm. Yay! Her red is decent, doing 1.6k damage and making 2 104 strike tiles, and it's even cheaper after res. But it also has that nasty attack tile drawback. In almost all circumstances, I am better off just using a 4* that will have more health and much more useful abilities. If I was still building a 3* roster i might feel differently about her. But as is, the best thing about my 4 cover phoenix is that it will only take 3 more covers to make her a 7 cover phoenix that might actually be worth leveling.

By contrast, if I had managed to pull a 1/1/2 OML, I would definitely be dipping my toes in the 5* pool. his regen completely negates the extra damage he will take for always tanking his colors. and even with just a few covers, he can still output some beefy strikes and would be a mainstay in both PVE and PVP. Phoenix just doesn't match up at low cover counts.

and the underlying point of my post remains valid in any case. After an initial burst of low-hanging champion fruit, I am even deeper in the ISO pit than I was before and have not significantly changed my in-game opportunities. I still field roughly the same teams and face roughly the same difficulty of opponents. Hence championing is better without actually be good!

mohio

The fact that so many are focusing on the 5* pulls is extremely telling to me. The game has gotten a bit stale, to the point where that's all a lot of us "veterans" have to focus on. Sure we all need iso so we can level another 4*, but do we really need that 4*? Many of us are hitting 1300 without too much trouble. Certainly 1k at least is fairly easy. Once you've got a decent 4* team (doesn't even need to be top tier), you escape enough attacks from the masses that you can score pretty well, and with some coordination it's not difficult in the least. So, we're left with a game that keeps churning out new characters that might be interesting, but we don't really NEED, and a game that has released new actual gameplay content maybe once every 6 months (and that's generous). So we're left trying to improve our rosters, which at this point means we're at the mercy of RNG to see how many 5* we pull.

Vhailorx brings up another very good point imo, which is that with a few maxed 4* you still need many pulls of the same 5* to make them playable over those 4*. I am "lucky" enough to have 8 5* covers total (but over 120+ pulls I hardly feel lucky), but my chars are 1/1/1 SS, 0/1/1 OML, and 2/0/1 Phoenix. None of those are usable over my maxed and champed JG, 4clops, and HB (or even really my 4hor, Fury, KP, etc. that are max covered but at 240). I need another 3-4 covers for each character before they would be useful. Unless my next 4 5* pulls are all for the same char, I am looking at a really long time before I can use one. Even that makes each 5* pull a bit anti-climactic. Sure you're one step closer, but you still have many steps to go, so it's quite frustrating.

simonsez

mohio wrote:

Sure we all need iso so we can level another 4*, but do we really need that 4*?

I would've agreed with you 100% a couple days ago, but after seeing these crazy high stats on boosted champ 4*s, I can say yeah, I'd really, really want them ("need" might be too strong). It was really nice being able to put up a 29k Carnage and be able to float at a score that would normally have me beaten down a couple hundred points. And I'd say the same for most of the other 4*s when their boost weeks come.

Orion

simonsez wrote:

mohio wrote:

Sure we all need iso so we can level another 4*, but do we really need that 4*?

I would've agreed with you 100% a couple days ago, but after seeing these crazy high stats on boosted champ 4*s, I can say yeah, I'd really, really want them ("need" might be too strong). It was really nice being able to put up a 29k Carnage and be able to float at a score that would normally have me beaten down a couple hundred points. And I'd say the same for most of the other 4*s when their boost weeks come.

100% this. My championed Carnage got me to 1300 in the last PvP with very little effort. I've only reached 1300 once before. It's making me want to champion other mid-tier 4*s so I can take advantage of their super-boosted stats. Everyone will have a boosted Hulkbuster, so no advantage there. But if I can pull out a super-boosted X23 or Kingpin during their week in PvP? No one will want to chew through that without a high-cover 5* or a super 4* of their own.

Stax the Foyer

simonsez wrote:

mohio wrote:

Sure we all need iso so we can level another 4*, but do we really need that 4*?

I would've agreed with you 100% a couple days ago, but after seeing these crazy high stats on boosted champ 4*s, I can say yeah, I'd really, really want them ("need" might be too strong). It was really nice being able to put up a 29k Carnage and be able to float at a score that would normally have me beaten down a couple hundred points. And I'd say the same for most of the other 4*s when their boost weeks come.

Skrull Hivemind agreeing here. The boosted 4*s are the final piece that was missing from the 5* system, and can be situationally as good as a near-max 5*.

In a week when, say, Chulk and Falcap are boosted, yeah, 5*s are going to be the only game in town. But this week, boosted Cyclops and Iceman will be giving 5*s a run for their money if you have them maxed or near-maxed.

Vhailorx

Boosted 4* champs only help the super elite. If you don't already have a 4* covered, then you better not plan on covering them at all any time soon. With 20+ in the game now and more on the way, plus no direct buy option, it's going to be really hard to build And level any particular 4* now (best way is to hit 1k each time they rotate up, and then grind like made in pve events And hope for a top 10 finish).

And forget actually building a 5* now with the split pools. Each character will get 3 months in the main pool. After that it will be CP. How many people collect the hundreds of LTs necessary to build a 5* every three months. That's part of why I was disappointed with my Phoenix covers. They are fine for what they, but they also represent a missed opportunity to pull oml, and he is out of standard LTs later this month most likely. . .

TxMoose

Vhailorx wrote:

Boosted 4* champs only help the super elite. If you don't already have a 4* covered. Then you better not plan on covering them at all any time soon. With 20+ in the game now and more on the way, plus no direct buy option, it's going to be really hard to build them and level them at all now (best way is to hit 1k each time they rotate up, and then grind like made in pve events And hope for a top 10 finish).

the super elite is who is dealing with having to fight off leveled 5* characters. and without some very strong boosted 4*s, there is no option for dealing with them. the usable 5* bunch is ever growing and while many put lots of money into them, many others have just been on the lucky side of their LTs, while other similarly skilled players on the unlucky side have nothing close to usable 5*s. I think you were ahead of me (roster wise) when you retired, but the game has continued to progress and full rosters of mostly covered 4*s are not nearly as uncommon as they used to be. the iso to level them, however, is another matter. but the vets have been around long enough to accumulate the iso to max a good stable of 4*s and a strong boosting of 4*s will help them. I'm not quite there, but getting there as fast as I can. all I need is about 3 mil iso. 1 maxed, 2 at 250 and several at 180. should have 3 maxed within a couple of weeks.

Buret0

Vhailorx wrote:

Boosted 4* champs only help the super elite. If you don't already have a 4* covered, then you better not plan on covering them at all any time soon. With 20+ in the game now and more on the way, plus no direct buy option, it's going to be really hard to build And level any particular 4* now (best way is to hit 1k each time they rotate up, and then grind like made in pve events And hope for a top 10 finish).

And forget actually building a 5* now with the split pools. Each character will get 3 months in the main pool. After that it will be CP. How many people collect the hundreds of LTs necessary to build a 5* every three months. That's part of why I was disappointed with my Phoenix covers. They are fine for what they, but they also represent a missed opportunity to pull oml, and he is out of standard LTs later this month most likely. . .

I think they are doing something strange in the background on 4* pulls.

A month ago I had a 1/2/1 Rhulk. Today he is 3/5/4.
A month ago I didn't have an X-23, today she is 3/0/4.

During that period, I haven't pulled a single Ghost Rider, Chulk, Eddie Brock, or Miles, all of which are almost completely uncovered but rostered with 1-3 covers.

Considering how much I'd rather have a Rhulk and X-23 to those other four, I'm pretty happy about those pulls.

Similarly, I have 15 5* covers, all of which have been Surfer or OML. I'm pulling below my 5* draw rate, but at least I'm not getting singles.

Vhailorx

Interesting buret.

I have also seen character grouping with my 5* (as seen in all the chastising of me above), but less so in my 4* pulls.

Has the community tried any sort of data collection to see if LTs are weighted to character above a cover threshold? We need many more data before this is anything but small sample size variance.

Tx, I don't suggest that 4* champ boosts are bad. Just that they aren't a solution to the problems of 4* transitioners. I can't comment on how common deep 4* rosters are now, but given the release rate, I can't imagine there are many people with colog level roster depth (i.e. complete pre CP 4* rosters).