Phoenix and Jean on the same team

CNash

If Phoenix!Jean is alive (often not a certainty), there's no reason why she couldn't coexist with Teen!Jean, who is merely from the past. In the X-Men comics from which Teen!Jean is drawn, the younger Iceman coexists happily with the present-day Iceman - as shown on the cover that is used to represent Iceman in this very game.

The devs have said that Banner!Hulk and Cho!Hulk can't be used at the same time because of their situation in the comics. If that's really the case, why doesn't it go both ways? I'd like to see some consistency here, rather than arbitrary justifications that are easy to pick holes in.

Quebbster

Player: "Why can't I use these two characters together?"
D3: "Because we said so."
That's really all there is to it.

Malcrof

Actually, this is a 100% valid point.

Marvelfamily

Two People having the same identity can't play together. Thor and Thor Goddess can't, because only 1 can carry Mjölnir.

Ragnarok and Thor are playable because they are totally different.

Wolverine (all) are having same identity. X23 and Wolvie? Um, don't know.

Hulk... why not with Chulk? What's the story behind? With Red Hulk it works, because different identities.

On and on and on... I suppose we don't want variations anymore

Jarvind

Marvelfamily wrote:

Two People having the same identity can't play together. Thor and Thor Goddess can't, because only 1 can carry Mjölnir.

Ragnarok and Thor are playable because they are totally different.

Wolverine (all) are having same identity. X23 and Wolvie? Um, don't know.

Hulk... why not with Chulk? What's the story behind? With Red Hulk it works, because different identities.

On and on and on... I suppose we don't want variations anymore

You can play Wolverine and X23 on the same team. I use her and Old Man Logan together all the time.

For Cho I think it's because in the universe where Cho exists, Bruce Banner isn't the Hulk or some such - I dunno, I haven't read the comics. Moot point anyway because lolCho.

FOADakaSquirrelBoy

It's more like because they wrote code that doesn't allow two characters with the same name to be on the same team. This is also why we get abominations like "Steve Rogers (Super Soldier)" and "Miles Morales (Spider-Man)".

Dragon_Nexus

Jarvind wrote:

You can play Wolverine and X23 on the same team. I use her and Old Man Logan together all the time.

You couldn't use her for the first half of Enemy of the State. I assume that's what s/he meant.

OnesOwnGrief

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

Jarvind wrote:

You can play Wolverine and X23 on the same team. I use her and Old Man Logan together all the time.

You couldn't use her for the first half of Enemy of the State. I assume that's what s/he meant.

Which was completely awkward because X-23 can be run with Wolverine with no issues otherwise.

As for the Thor and Jane thing, it's Mjolnir that prevents it. There's only one Mjolnir in this case. We could get 4* Thor that has the Axe and we'd be able to run them both. If Banner ever gets his abilities as The Hulk back, then... actually, 3* Hulk is a TERRIBLE character. I don't even want to use him.

CNash

I'm aware of all of these points, and they don't disprove my logic: Teen!Jean and Phoenix!Jean can coexist in the comics, using Iceman (Icemen?) as a precedent. If you deny certain pairings based on comic logic, like Jane!Thor and Thor!Thor because of Mjolnir, then you must accept pairings which are perfectly possible in the comics - like Wolverine and X-23 being able to play together (which wasn't possible at first, but then was identified as a bug and fixed).

The "two characters with the same name" thing is just a means to an end. Demiurge can and have changed the names of characters in the past, usually so that certain pairings would be denied.

SirLanik

The rule is pretty much against people who are essentially the same person being used together.

In this case, any version of Thor can't be used with other Thors. If one of them loses the hammer, and the other uses it, still one Thor.

The reason Cho and Banner can't be used together? Because they're both The Hulk. Banner got de-hulked and it went to Cho. Cho is now the only The Hulk.

So while (in theory) past Jean could be around Phoenix Jean in the comics, they haven't been. And even if they did? Same person. They won't ever be able to team up.

This would be a weirder issue if they ever made another Phoenix character- as you obviously couldn't pair two Phoenixes together. But I doubt that will happen.

Essentially, the rules aren't really to match up with the comics. The rules are to block characters that are the same character from teaming together. It's important to note, being the same character does not mean you are the same person. (Thor, Venom, Hulk.)

The only one that I figure they bent the rules for, is Falcon Captain America. Mainly because despite him now being Captain, Steven is still around and never really stops being Steve. The shield does *not* make the man in that case.

Eddiemon

CNash wrote:

If Phoenix!Jean is alive (often not a certainty), there's no reason why she couldn't coexist with Teen!Jean, who is merely from the past. In the X-Men comics from which Teen!Jean is drawn, the younger Iceman coexists happily with the present-day Iceman - as shown on the cover that is used to represent Iceman in this very game.

The devs have said that Banner!Hulk and Cho!Hulk can't be used at the same time because of their situation in the comics. If that's really the case, why doesn't it go both ways? I'd like to see some consistency here, rather than arbitrary justifications that are easy to pick holes in.

The rules isn't 'could they coexist in the same continuity', but rather 'have they ever coexisted'. I believe they ignore short term time travel 'events' like Ultron Forever. It would also mean that Superior and Regular spidey couldn't coexist just because of Spiderverse.

In theory in a paradigm where time travel is possible anyone could coexist with anyone else, so the test can't be 'could it happen', but rather 'has it happened?'. And so far Teen Jean has never existed in a time when Phoen Jean has been active. Whereas Snowman Jr and Snowman Senior have coexisted now for ~3 years.

Banner and Cho Hulks can't coexist because they have never coexisted in the comics, not 'because of their situation', which is vague. The power specifically transitioned from one to the other, similar to Mjolnir in the Thoryline or the venom symbiote.

And the rule only applies to characters who share a real or heroic identity. So Phoenix can coexist with a whole load of characters who came into existence after she died. Or Wolverine who was dead before Chulk was created can still coexist with him. Miles is a strange one because when he joined the new universe he apparently 'always existed', but we never get to see his new retconned past.

Mawtful

But I can have Thor (Odinson) on the same team as Captain America (Sam Wilson) even though - up to this point in time - Odinson has never wielded Mjolnir while Sam is Captain America. So if you're saying that it's OK to pick a character from one part of the timeline and a second character from another part of the timeline and have them both on the same team. All-New X-Men also showed that, thanks to the beauty of poorly contrived time travel plots, the young X-Men can co-exist alongside the current X-Men (and also alongside a third team of X-Men from a future). With this in mind, it's canonically correct to have whatever team line up you want.