Pre-Release (v1.3) Notes Feedback

As a primarily Jace player I understood the nerf-bat was coming, but wow!

- HotT: cannot argue here, the change to 4/4 and reduced penalty to mana cost still makes it an attractive addition to most Blue decks.

- Claustrophobia/Suppression Bonds: both these cards are getting it on both ends, they cost more and are more easily destroyed. I think this swung things too far the other way. I don't think any support should have a shield value of 1; match-4 is common enough that these can be taken out fairly quickly beside the normal same-color match, not to mention a cascade. Adding the increased mana-cost really makes them unattractive since they can be taken out on the opponent's turn having provided benefit for not even 1 turn.

- Bounce mechanic change for Blue cards only: when it comes to Destroyer objectives, this was one of the few ways Blue could reliably destroy creatures given their generally lower powered creatures and no direct-damage. With HotT nerfed (as was appropriate), this matter is only amplified.

I didn't realize Gideon was considered so OP, but in retrospect I'd agree that his abilities were pretty inexpensive.


  • I'm a Gideon player and Chandra, with occasional Jace for objectives.
    I was dissapointed that they negated the bounce if the opponents hand is full. It really makes bounce too situational and dependent on the opponent which is completely anti blue. If they are worried about hand sizes they should implement a discard at end of turn.
    Not sure on the orchid need cause I don't actually have one. Also think that claustrophobia and white prison nerf to 1 seems exaggerated. Any support with only 1 strength is at risk of not having an effect at all...
    The rest Of the changes seem positive I'd have to test when it comes.
  • TKC
    TKC Posts: 32
    Reposted from 1.3 thread:

    The "fix" to the bounce mechanic was not thought through properly.

    Blue has two main themes - make your opponent's stuff more expensive and/or deny them mana (Jace's Sanctum, Sphinx's Tutelage, Alhammaret, Calculated Dismissal, Negate, etc.) and bounce things back to their hand (Harbinger, Voidmage, Anchor, etc.).

    Making one core mechanism / theme (mana manipulation) being essentially incompatible with the second core theme (bounce) is poor game design. The fact that even tokens require space in hand to 'bounce' seems to indicate that the change was implemented this way in order to require the least possible coding.

    Keep in mind with that compatibility gone, the rest of blue's options are not particularly good.

    You want to give bounced cards an undeniable option to come back, while still keeping it a moderately useful mechanic for blue? Implement the ability to hold more than six cards, with a mandatory discard down to six at the end of the holding player's turn. This will also vastly improve the card draw mechanic in a player's own turn.

    Look, the intention was clearly good, but the execution leaves a lot to be desired.

    As far as the other changes go, some seem pretty good, some I am dubious about (any shield at 1 seems pretty useless) - but we'll have to see how they play out in practice.
  • Fitomagic
    Some feedback

    On jace:HoT changes are correct, it makes a very good cards but can be countered. Dont agree wuth 1 claustrofobia and supressing bonds and with no own target for anchor to ether

    On gideon:
    Orchid Knight should be a 5/5 or 5/4 or less cost (12-14) because is a rare card and the cost 16 is to high for a 4!/4 if we see the comander that is and uncommon and a 4/3 first strike that will gain vigilance soon is a similar card with this changes cause is cheaper
    Expectating lowering cost from gideon phalange
  • Unknown
    edited February 2016
    While others have noted this game seemed to be rushed out, I disagreed. At least until they released the notes in the 2/3 update. This many nerfs indicates that it definitely was rushed and not tested enough. But the worst part is that many of these adjustments seem like they go too far. The first release wasn't tested enough and these changes swing it the other way too far, and don't appear to be tested enough.

    Clearly some adjustments were needed and at least they were willing to make any changes they felt necessary.

    I felt Gideon didn't need that much nerfing, it is true that some considered him the most powerful PW. E.g., Panda's tier list does (though that seems to be based on very early--just starting out/going through story mode--evaluation). In my opinion, the pecking order as of right before the update goes more Jace>Chandra>>Gideon >>Nissa>Liliana. It depends on cards , but assuming you have everything you want, that would be my ranking. Plus taking a swing at both the PW and the cards could go too far. Jace lost s lot of card power, but strong, and cheap, abilities were untouched. The adjustments for Gideon seem to go too far, because the abilities are now too costly to protect creatures before they die. Worst of all, it appears more advantageous to keep Gideon at lower levels to keep the ability costs lower.

    While there are good examples of doing too much with simultaneous adjustments, KotWO is a good example of butchering a card in one swipe. The 4/4, which was already DOA to exquisite firecraft is now also DOA to ravaging blaze. Plus, as a defender it is DOA to any attacker/berserker with >4 toughness, unless you have a 5 match and enough loyalty to pump it enough as you play it (good luck!). At 16 mana both Consul's Luitenant and Iroas are better options (and they're both Unconmons!) now.

    I will say after playing around with Nyx I think the adjustments could make that card useful, although less so with Suppression Bonds getting nerfed despite being considered only A tier (or was it B?) on panda's tier list!

    By the way Chandra appears to be in a tier on her own with these adjustments. She's been my main deck for awhile, even without exquisite firecraft, and I don't think she got a single meaningful nerf. She will definitely roll over Gideon now, and Jace wasn't that much of a problem before, except for good hands with HotT etc., but Jace should be no problem at all now.
  • TKC wrote:
    Reposted from 1.3 thread:

    Making one core mechanism / theme (mana manipulation) being essentially incompatible with the second core theme (bounce) is poor game design. The fact that even tokens require space in hand to 'bounce' seems to indicate that the change was implemented this way in order to require the least possible coding.

    /nods in agreement
  • I agree that they have effectively made the bounce mechanic useless now. It is fairly rare to run into opponites that do not have full hands after a few turns. So you would have to time playing them very exactly which is nearly immpossible to do. I agree that the harbinger was op, cutting his power down made sense, but without the bounce i doubt i will continue to use him. I also agree that 1 match support, does not help much at all, particularly at the higher cost. This is particularly frustrating because i have only fairly recently started and have focused on jace (due to liking his character more than any stratagy reason) and lack mostbof the good mana denial cards