To the devs...

Unknown

Just a general question to the devs with no necessary response from anyone else. Comment if you like though

Why would you scale an event while everyone is complaining about scaling? You didn't take any time to think about it, since the psylocke event literally ended only a couple hours before this one. So why do you do it? Is there some necessity to scaling I don't get? And saying its to give the beginners a better chance isn't a valid answer. They shouldn't get a better chance than they deserve, and they don't deserve high ranks until they get stronger teams.

Unknown

The issue has many problems - if you don't scale, you have a few options:

Make the difficulty really high - only high level teams compete.
Make the difficulty static but low - trivial for high level teams, leads to an all out grind fest since a lot of people can do every mission (think some of the earlier PVE events).
Make the difficult scale based on team strength - (basically Oscorp Heroic/TaT) - unfair to high level players who have to work much harder than new players
Variable scaling - low teams can compete but will eventually hit a wall, high teams have more challenge but are not punished as extensively.

That's the reality. Get rid of scaling and you have a lot of other crummy issues. Simulator Basics rewarded advanced teams the most and yet low/mid level teams could still compete. That was the best imo.

Unknown

Devil's Advocate - There are people in other threads who said they do like scaling, you can't please everyone.

I am not one of those players, I can abide scaling if levels start off at say 20, 40, 60, 80, 100 and scale from there based on how often I (not the community) farm them with caps at 100, 150, 180, 200, 230 (just examples). That way I always have an easy-ish mission to play if I want to and also have a challenging mission if I want.

_RiO_

jozier wrote:

The issue has many problems - if you don't scale, you have a few options:

Make the difficulty really high - only high level teams compete.
Make the difficulty static but low - trivial for high level teams, leads to an all out grind fest since a lot of people can do every mission (think some of the earlier PVE events).
Make the difficult scale based on team strength - (basically Oscorp Heroic/TaT) - unfair to high level players who have to work much harder than new players
Variable scaling - low teams can compete but will eventually hit a wall, high teams have more challenge but are not punished as extensively.

That's the reality. Get rid of scaling and you have a lot of other crummy issues. Simulator Basics rewarded advanced teams the most and yet low/mid level teams could still compete. That was the best imo.

You have one more option: bracket players based on MMR and average team strength instead of first-come;first-serve basis.
Solves all the above problems.

Unknown

jozier wrote:

The issue has many problems - if you don't scale, you have a few options:

Make the difficulty really high - only high level teams compete.
Make the difficulty static but low - trivial for high level teams, leads to an all out grind fest since a lot of people can do every mission (think some of the earlier PVE events).
Make the difficult scale based on team strength - (basically Oscorp Heroic/TaT) - unfair to high level players who have to work much harder than new players
Variable scaling - low teams can compete but will eventually hit a wall, high teams have more challenge but are not punished as extensively.

That's the reality. Get rid of scaling and you have a lot of other crummy issues. Simulator Basics rewarded advanced teams the most and yet low/mid level teams could still compete. That was the best imo.

Hulk had high-level and low-level missions. Low-level players still got a Hulk cover and a lot of stuff; high-level players got more prizes. They had a good system, but walked away from it for some reason. Escalating mission difficulty is the best way to do this.

Unknown

jozier wrote:

The issue has many problems - if you don't scale, you have a few options:

Make the difficulty really high - only high level teams compete.
Make the difficulty static but low - trivial for high level teams, leads to an all out grind fest since a lot of people can do every mission (think some of the earlier PVE events).
Make the difficult scale based on team strength - (basically Oscorp Heroic/TaT) - unfair to high level players who have to work much harder than new players
Variable scaling - low teams can compete but will eventually hit a wall, high teams have more challenge but are not punished as extensively.

That's the reality. Get rid of scaling and you have a lot of other crummy issues. Simulator Basics rewarded advanced teams the most and yet low/mid level teams could still compete. That was the best imo.

I thought of scaling based on team strength, but with a max level the enemy can hit based on your team, and the points are based on the difficulty of the enemy, so it's fair for everyone. And the community's wins have no effect on each individual player. This way everyone will get the rewards they deserve.

Edit: rio and Ben grimm's ideas are good too

Twysta

Maybe scaling is to promote better physical health.
Eventually you're going to lose the will to play and go do something else.
It's good to at least rest your eyes every so often instead of spending 10 hours a day matching gems.

Unknown

_RiO_ wrote:

jozier wrote:

The issue has many problems - if you don't scale, you have a few options:

Make the difficulty really high - only high level teams compete.
Make the difficulty static but low - trivial for high level teams, leads to an all out grind fest since a lot of people can do every mission (think some of the earlier PVE events).
Make the difficult scale based on team strength - (basically Oscorp Heroic/TaT) - unfair to high level players who have to work much harder than new players
Variable scaling - low teams can compete but will eventually hit a wall, high teams have more challenge but are not punished as extensively.

That's the reality. Get rid of scaling and you have a lot of other crummy issues. Simulator Basics rewarded advanced teams the most and yet low/mid level teams could still compete. That was the best imo.

You have one more option: bracket players based on MMR and average team strength instead of first-come;first-serve basis.
Solves all the above problems.

. That only works if the "higher mmr" players are given better rewards naturally than the lower mmr brackets. It also begs for issues with someone starting thier bracket, let's say for this event on Sunday, and competing with ppl who started Saturday afternoon and have an entire sub on them.

I actually think the simulator basics worked fine, they just needed to give the easy bracket much lower lvl caps and/or have the scaling reset every or every other sub event. Of course, I think hulk worked okay as well without scaling...but ibdong know what the plight of the new player was prior to them turning the game into a love fest for low level players.

Unknown

jozier wrote:

The issue has many problems - if you don't scale, you have a few options:

Make the difficulty really high - only high level teams compete.
Make the difficulty static but low - trivial for high level teams, leads to an all out grind fest since a lot of people can do every mission (think some of the earlier PVE events).
Make the difficult scale based on team strength - (basically Oscorp Heroic/TaT) - unfair to high level players who have to work much harder than new players
Variable scaling - low teams can compete but will eventually hit a wall, high teams have more challenge but are not punished as extensively.

That's the reality. Get rid of scaling and you have a lot of other crummy issues. Simulator Basics rewarded advanced teams the most and yet low/mid level teams could still compete. That was the best imo.

Why not scale it the same for everyone? And I thought easy/hard was good enough to allow lower levels to still compete.

Unknown

Ben Grimm wrote:

jozier wrote:

The issue has many problems - if you don't scale, you have a few options:

Make the difficulty really high - only high level teams compete.
Make the difficulty static but low - trivial for high level teams, leads to an all out grind fest since a lot of people can do every mission (think some of the earlier PVE events).
Make the difficult scale based on team strength - (basically Oscorp Heroic/TaT) - unfair to high level players who have to work much harder than new players
Variable scaling - low teams can compete but will eventually hit a wall, high teams have more challenge but are not punished as extensively.

That's the reality. Get rid of scaling and you have a lot of other crummy issues. Simulator Basics rewarded advanced teams the most and yet low/mid level teams could still compete. That was the best imo.

Hulk had high-level and low-level missions. Low-level players still got a Hulk cover and a lot of stuff; high-level players got more prizes. They had a good system, but walked away from it for some reason. Escalating mission difficulty is the best way to do this.

Thumbs up here for making it more like the hulk worked for everyone

Twysta

I really enjoyed the hulk event.
So much so that even when they ran it two times in a row it was still good.

Mrazy

ENOUGH WITH THE SCALING!!!
it only helps people with scrub lineups, when i saw the event a few hours ago, the lineups lv were like... Hey, when i get home ill have a good time beating some fights, i get home, and all the fights i saw as doable have increased over 20 lvs now.
In maybe 10 hours all the fights are going to be deadly to me, whether i fight the event as soon as its released or not at all. But hey, the top ranked player for the lab missions is doing fine since he only have 1 character lv 80 so no deadly lineups for him.

I HATE THE EFFING SCALING!!! ITS BROKEN!!!!

danikalil

Mrazy wrote:

ENOUGH WITH THE SCALING!!!
it only helps people with scrub lineups, when i saw the event a few hours ago, the lineups lv were like... Hey, when i get home ill have a good time beating some fights, i get home, and all the fights i saw as doable have increased over 20 lvs now.
In maybe 10 hours all the fights are going to be deadly to me, whether i fight the event as soon as its released or not at all. But hey, the top ranked player for the lab missions is doing fine since he only have 1 character lv 80 so no deadly lineups for him.

I HATE THE EFFING SCALING!!! ITS BROKEN!!!!

Sigh. I've given up on complaining about it. I started a thread on it, many people commented it, and we got no response at all. It seems the devs have their own agenda, and whether we're having fun or not is only a minor consideration.

Eddiemon

Ben Grimm wrote:

Hulk had high-level and low-level missions. Low-level players still got a Hulk cover and a lot of stuff; high-level players got more prizes. They had a good system, but walked away from it for some reason. Escalating mission difficulty is the best way to do this.

Because winning the hulk was purely a matter of grinding and knowing how to manipulate rubber banding. People fixate on the free cover, which is irrelevant to scaling because it is a matter of rewards and is completely independent.

Getting scaling right is the best outcome, and they have improved markedly over the last 3 events.

Unknown

Eddiemon wrote:

Getting scaling right is the best outcome, and they have improved markedly over the last 3 events.

Improved how? What levels are you experiencing? I have one repeatable low level fight: Iso-8 Lab Peru 1 which started level 26 and has now increased to 38 without any interaction by me. Every other fight started at level 230 but a few have dropped to 229!

My highest level character is a level 128 Punisher (next highest 106) so with him buffed slightly (about 20% boost in damage I think) it probably won't be quite as painful as it could have been without him.

MarvelMan

What I have seen in the past several events is that slowly it is becoming either you have a high team or scrubs to end up in the top 10, and more likely scrubs. The current scaling makes it very difficult for mid level people to place high and over rewards the new people. Giving someone with no maxed 1*s a bunch of 3* covers doesnt really help them as they will end up in the mid tier before they get enough ISO to level their new heroes/villains. Although I spose that some people in that predicament will turn to buying ISO....more will quit without spending.

NorthernPolarity

bughunt wrote:

Eddiemon wrote:

Getting scaling right is the best outcome, and they have improved markedly over the last 3 events.

Improved how? What levels are you experiencing? I have one repeatable low level fight: Iso-8 Lab Peru 1 which started level 26 and has now increased to 38 without any interaction by me. Every other fight started at level 230 but a few have dropped to 229!

My highest level character is a level 128 Punisher (next highest 106) so with him buffed slightly (about 20% boost in damage I think) it probably won't be quite as painful as it could have been without him.

I'm seeing ~level 100 across the board: maybe your game is buggy or the algorithm really screwed you over.

Unknown

Based on my observation, the major boosted characters are roughly equivalent of 100 levels higher than their level, and the minor boosted characters are about 50 levels higher.

For example a level 85 Moonstone is basically a level 150 3* (because 2* roughly have stats equal to a 3* 15 levels higher) and her stats matchup favorably against say a level 141 Iron Man 40 (roughly same class of tanky but not tank). A level 15 Dr. Doom is equivalent of a level 115 nonboosted version of himself.

What this means is that it does favor the low end and the high end, because the guys on the high end are likely to have all the characters developed. A level 85 Moonstone is better than a level 141 IM40 in stats, so you might as well use her. Conversely, on the lower end, you might be looking at the difference between a level 10 Moonstone or a level 20 someone else, and it's easy to see Moonstone's stats are much higher while boosted so you might as well use her as an equivalent of level 75 3*, who is more than a match for the PvE enemies faced by the low level player. But mid range players are likely to ignore their roster depth because they're trying to pump a few guys up, so you're sitting here with a level 85 OBW, level 85 Thor, and a level 10 Moonstone. Well level 10 Moonstone doesn't beat level 85 Thor, but level 85 Thor isn't really adequate for the enemies you'd be fighting too.

Still, even mid range players should diversify their roster. It's always a good idea to level whoever is currently featured anyway, if only to avoid you from being an attractive target when someone sees your level 15 loaned hero. For example in the Daredevil tournament you'll see that most high end teams have him around level 40-50. While Daredevil is a weak character, you'd still pass up a team with level 141X2 + level 40 Daredevil if you've seen a level 141X2 + level 15 Daredevil earlier. In fact, due to the overall dominance of Spiderman, having a weak featured character is very dangerous. You don't want a guy with only 1K HP that can be killed immediately and let Spiderman begin his stunlock that much quicker (way easier to stunlock 2 guys than 3 guys), so even though Daredevil doesn't do jack, he still needs to be alive to slow down the opposiong Spiderman.

Unknown

If they want to scale so be it, but they should at least make it properly.
If someone have no more than one or two level 85 heroes, they shouldn't be fighting level 230 ennemies, that's unfair, insane and totally absurd.

But that's what they did.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

Based on my observation, the major boosted characters are roughly equivalent of 100 levels higher than their level, and the minor boosted characters are about 50 levels higher.

For example a level 85 Moonstone is basically a level 150 3* (because 2* roughly have stats equal to a 3* 15 levels higher) and her stats matchup favorably against say a level 141 Iron Man 40 (roughly same class of tanky but not tank). A level 15 Dr. Doom is equivalent of a level 115 nonboosted version of himself.

What this means is that it does favor the low end and the high end, because the guys on the high end are likely to have all the characters developed. A level 85 Moonstone is better than a level 141 IM40 in stats, so you might as well use her. Conversely, on the lower end, you might be looking at the difference between a level 10 Moonstone or a level 20 someone else, and it's easy to see Moonstone's stats are much higher while boosted so you might as well use her as an equivalent of level 75 3*, who is more than a match for the PvE enemies faced by the low level player. But mid range players are likely to ignore their roster depth because they're trying to pump a few guys up, so you're sitting here with a level 85 OBW, level 85 Thor, and a level 10 Moonstone. Well level 10 Moonstone doesn't beat level 85 Thor, but level 85 Thor isn't really adequate for the enemies you'd be fighting too.

Still, even mid range players should diversify their roster. It's always a good idea to level whoever is currently featured anyway, if only to avoid you from being an attractive target when someone sees your level 15 loaned hero. For example in the Daredevil tournament you'll see that most high end teams have him around level 40-50. While Daredevil is a weak character, you'd still pass up a team with level 141X2 + level 40 Daredevil if you've seen a level 141X2 + level 15 Daredevil earlier. In fact, due to the overall dominance of Spiderman, having a weak featured character is very dangerous. You don't want a guy with only 1K HP that can be killed immediately and let Spiderman begin his stunlock that much quicker (way easier to stunlock 2 guys than 3 guys), so even though Daredevil doesn't do jack, he still needs to be alive to slow down the opposiong Spiderman.

Nobody needs a boosted weak character whatever he or she is, against level 230 opponents the only thing you need is a lucky spideman as only a few strikes are needed to destroy your entire team, only stunkocks can save your team.

I don't think a boosted moonstone or Storm (if you have them at decent level already, which is not the case for everybody) will change this kind of fights, they will be killed in one shot whatever their boosted level. Boosted heroes are useful against decent level opponents (120-150), certainly not higher.

And i don't think smaller boosts give your heroes 50 levels more, my boosted lvl 50 storm has no more than 2500 hitpoints, so she's hardly lvl 75 at the moment.

This game is broken, highly broken, remove spideman from it and nobody won't play anymore, THAT's the thing to understand here. And i won't call it a game anymore as i can't play it no more, no game no fun, northing of interest.

NorthernPolarity

Morphee-moi-mal wrote:

Phantron wrote:

Based on my observation, the major boosted characters are roughly equivalent of 100 levels higher than their level, and the minor boosted characters are about 50 levels higher.

For example a level 85 Moonstone is basically a level 150 3* (because 2* roughly have stats equal to a 3* 15 levels higher) and her stats matchup favorably against say a level 141 Iron Man 40 (roughly same class of tanky but not tank). A level 15 Dr. Doom is equivalent of a level 115 nonboosted version of himself.

What this means is that it does favor the low end and the high end, because the guys on the high end are likely to have all the characters developed. A level 85 Moonstone is better than a level 141 IM40 in stats, so you might as well use her. Conversely, on the lower end, you might be looking at the difference between a level 10 Moonstone or a level 20 someone else, and it's easy to see Moonstone's stats are much higher while boosted so you might as well use her as an equivalent of level 75 3*, who is more than a match for the PvE enemies faced by the low level player. But mid range players are likely to ignore their roster depth because they're trying to pump a few guys up, so you're sitting here with a level 85 OBW, level 85 Thor, and a level 10 Moonstone. Well level 10 Moonstone doesn't beat level 85 Thor, but level 85 Thor isn't really adequate for the enemies you'd be fighting too.

Still, even mid range players should diversify their roster. It's always a good idea to level whoever is currently featured anyway, if only to avoid you from being an attractive target when someone sees your level 15 loaned hero. For example in the Daredevil tournament you'll see that most high end teams have him around level 40-50. While Daredevil is a weak character, you'd still pass up a team with level 141X2 + level 40 Daredevil if you've seen a level 141X2 + level 15 Daredevil earlier. In fact, due to the overall dominance of Spiderman, having a weak featured character is very dangerous. You don't want a guy with only 1K HP that can be killed immediately and let Spiderman begin his stunlock that much quicker (way easier to stunlock 2 guys than 3 guys), so even though Daredevil doesn't do jack, he still needs to be alive to slow down the opposiong Spiderman.

Nobody needs a boosted weak character whatever he or she is, against level 230 opponents the only thing you need is a lucky spideman as only a few strikes are needed to destroy your entire team, only stunkocks can save your team.

I don't think a boosted moonstone or Storm (if you have them at decent level already, which is not the case for everybody) will change this kind of fights, they will be killed in one shot whatever their boosted level. Boosted heroes are useful against decent level opponents (120-150), certainly not higher.

And i don't think smaller boosts give your heroes 50 levels more, my boosted lvl 50 storm has no more than 2500 hitpoints, so she's hardly lvl 75 at the moment.

This game is broken, highly broken, remove spideman from it and nobody won't play anymore, THAT's the thing to understand here. And i won't call it a game anymore as i can't play it no more, no game no fun, northing of interest.

Yeah this is what everyone said during TaT, and look at where we are today. Even though scaling hasn't been 100% fixed, the simulator showed off a lot of cool new ideas from the devs (hard mode vs normal mode, different buffed heroes/enemies, bigger rewards for subs in the form of 2.5k iso, incrementally better level scaling, although not by too much, etc), and as time passes on, the game will get progressively better. I would chill out and let the devs do their thing, since they do care about the health of the game and the hardcore community, and will fix things eventually (sometime soon please! walls of 230s aren't fun.) If you're this frustrated by the game, then just stop playing and check back in a couple of weeks instead of proclaiming the end of MPQ. Something else to consider is that Spidey is the reason why walls of 230s exist in the first place, since its hard to make challenging PvE content when you have a character that can trivialize it: once Spidey is balanced, the devs might be more lenient with the PvE content and tone down the difficulty to compensate.