Need an explanation for these match ups.

Hellnikko

I really hope someone can help on this.

http://imgur.com/a/hmpe7

Here you can see two match ups from two different rosters. One is much higher leveled but the enemies are 33 levels below the highest hero. The second shows a much lower roster and the enemies are 5 levels higher than the highest hero. As far as I know, the second roster was in no way in a vet bracket if that's even a concern.

Now in this example:

http://imgur.com/a/Kopzf

The second roster has different characters available and the last node is vastly different from what they got in the previous event. Now the enemies are 79 levels below the highest hero.

Any help or clarification on this is much appreciated.

PeterGibbons316

Stop trying to understand the minutia of scaling, it's really not that important.

Hellnikko

You might not think so, but that second roster had a very rough time with the enemies 5 levels above their max. It would be nice to know what causes it.

Unknown

For starters, it's based on an average of your strongest team you could bring, not your highest hero alone.

Still looks a bit underpowered on second match up, but that should bring it closer in line once you've considered that it's an average.

Punisher5784

Hellnikko wrote:

You might not think so, but that second roster had a very rough time with the enemies 5 levels above their max. It would be nice to know what causes it.

Unfortunately no one knows, including the devs. However, they recently stated there will be new changes to scaling coming soon that will benefit everyone. Stay tuned!

Also known as, "we reduced the amount of Winfinite being used in PVE, so we can now safely lower the scaling"

mohio

The only part of scaling in your control is how much damage you take while beating (or wiping) to any given node. People suggest you at least take some small but not insignificant amount of damage each time so that your scaling does not get out of control. This is one reason why goon nodes tend to scale way higher (along with also starting at higher levels), you usually can beat them without taking any damage at all. Besides taking more damage or even purposefully wiping, there's really nothing else in your control once you take roster levels out of the equation. They're hoping to fix that part of scaling *soon*, so maybe that will be less of an issue going forward.

GrumpySmurf1002

Some nodes have a minimum difficulty. Whether the 2nd roster met it is another question, but that could be a root cause.

Another possible cause is the first shot occurred early in the sub event, before personal scaling kicked in.

Roster strength is also not the only factor in level scaling, how well you clear the nodes also effects the levels of opponents you face, but no one has cracked that formula. There's some work done on it, but nothing concrete.

In the second screen shot, some nodes also have a maximum difficulty. Potentially it was reached on that particular node. That makes the second a completely apples to alligators comparison to the first set.

PeterGibbons316

Hellnikko wrote:

You might not think so, but that second roster had a very rough time with the enemies 5 levels above their max. It would be nice to know what causes it.

Some fights in the game are meant to be challenging.

M C K

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

Some fights in the game are meant to be challenging.

Careful! If you venture too far into "You're supposed to lose" territory, the forums turn on you!

alaeth

mohio wrote:

The only part of scaling in your control is how much damage you take while beating (or wiping) to any given node. People suggest you at least take some small but not insignificant amount of damage each time so that your scaling does not get out of control. This is one reason why goon nodes tend to scale way higher (along with also starting at higher levels), you usually can beat them without taking any damage at all. Besides taking more damage or even purposefully wiping, there's really nothing else in your control once you take roster levels out of the equation. They're hoping to fix that part of scaling *soon*, so maybe that will be less of an issue going forward.

I do this (or rather I used to... when I PvE'd).

"tanking" as it's know is the fastest way to drop the "hard nodes". In some cases, I'm managed to get the essential nodes to "trivial", and the last nodes in the sub to "easy".

It's not hard, and doesn't take extra Health packs - if you have a broad roster with a variety of characters at a variety of levels.

My approach:
* check the level of the opponents and type (of "goon only", subtract 5-10 levels)
* push hard through the first opponent (kill then with "every trick in the bag" then reassess - if I'm already under 50% health, keep pushing, but if I'm barely scratched, match-dmg only (and focus on the top of the board to avoid cascades... leave those enemy CD timers (especially sniper... big dmg!)
* If I do it well, I finish the match with two of my roster dead, and the third well under 10% (ties go to the player, so winning with Sentry is epic).

(edit)
Started Enemy of the State for the ISO and remembered a few more things I do:
* avoid using "true Healers" - I think the scaling is dependent on starting health versus end health (rather than actual dmg taken) - so using a team that self-heals counteracts that.
* always use the "loaner team" when you can, if you suicide them accidentally (trying to "just barely win"), no health pack cost to you
* avoid 4 and 5 matches
* avoid using abilities that leave strike or attack tiles, they're too difficult to compensate for later in the match
* basically do your tinykitty best to become a ... well... tinykitty.

BlackSheep101

There are a lot of variables besides level that can make a fight easy or difficult.

jobob

mohio wrote:

The only part of scaling in your control is how much damage you take while beating (or wiping) to any given node. People suggest you at least take some small but not insignificant amount of damage each time so that your scaling does not get out of control. This is one reason why goon nodes tend to scale way higher (along with also starting at higher levels), you usually can beat them without taking any damage at all. Besides taking more damage or even purposefully wiping, there's really nothing else in your control once you take roster levels out of the equation. They're hoping to fix that part of scaling *soon*, so maybe that will be less of an issue going forward.

Question about this... does it count total damage taken, or net damage after healing? In other words, if I take Daken, Patch, and R&G... and soak up a lot of damage but they heal back to full health before the end, does that count as 0 damage?

alaeth

jobob wrote:

mohio wrote:

The only part of scaling in your control is how much damage you take while beating (or wiping) to any given node. People suggest you at least take some small but not insignificant amount of damage each time so that your scaling does not get out of control. This is one reason why goon nodes tend to scale way higher (along with also starting at higher levels), you usually can beat them without taking any damage at all. Besides taking more damage or even purposefully wiping, there's really nothing else in your control once you take roster levels out of the equation. They're hoping to fix that part of scaling *soon*, so maybe that will be less of an issue going forward.

Question about this... does it count total damage taken, or net damage after healing? In other words, if I take Daken, Patch, and R&G... and soak up a lot of damage but they heal back to full health before the end, does that count as 0 damage?

My understanding it it counts how much health you have (starting health) - (ending health). So I think taking "true healers" like Daken can actually make your scaling worse.

I avoid taking true healers when I'm in "tanking" mode, and use them only for the final grind to 1.