Champions and certain "Lazy" heroes

Tryke

As far as I know, there are three "lazy" 3* modeled after 2*. Mohawk is modeled after a 1* so I'll leave her out of this. We all know 2* cap has bad scaling on his abilities and is heavily outstripped by 3* cap so I'll leave him out of this too.

The two I'm curious about are Daken and Thor. 3* Daken and 3* Thor are designed to be very similar to their 2* counterparts outside of stat numbers. The idea is that the 2* have better scaling, but 3* have a higher level cap making them stronger in the long run.

With Champion levels and the abundance of 2* covers compared to 3*, will the scaling on these 2*'s make them comparable or even stronger than 3* until a much later point? Mainly, would a 144 champion 2* have better stats than a 166 3*?

I wonder at what level lazythor will overtake 144 2* Thor and lazydaken overtake 144 2* Daken.

JVReal

Tryke wrote:

As far as I know, there are three "lazy" 3* modeled after 2*. Mohawk is modeled after a 1* so I'll leave her out of this. We all know 2* cap has bad scaling on his abilities and is heavily outstripped by 3* cap so I'll leave him out of this too.

The two I'm curious about are Daken and Thor. 3* Daken and 3* Thor are designed to be very similar to their 2* counterparts outside of stat numbers. The idea is that the 2* have better scaling, but 3* have a higher level cap making them stronger in the long run.

With Champion levels and the abundance of 2* covers compared to 3*, will the scaling on these 2*'s make them comparable or even stronger than 3* until a much later point? Mainly, would a 144 champion 2* have better stats than a 166 3*?

I wonder at what level lazythor will overtake 144 2* Thor and lazydaken overtake 144 2* Daken.

I don't know... I kinda hope that the levels mean something, and since 144 is < 166, even a championed 2* Daken would be weaker than a maxed 166 3* Daken. Right?

Malcrof

JVReal wrote:

Tryke wrote:

As far as I know, there are three "lazy" 3* modeled after 2*. Mohawk is modeled after a 1* so I'll leave her out of this. We all know 2* cap has bad scaling on his abilities and is heavily outstripped by 3* cap so I'll leave him out of this too.

The two I'm curious about are Daken and Thor. 3* Daken and 3* Thor are designed to be very similar to their 2* counterparts outside of stat numbers. The idea is that the 2* have better scaling, but 3* have a higher level cap making them stronger in the long run.

With Champion levels and the abundance of 2* covers compared to 3*, will the scaling on these 2*'s make them comparable or even stronger than 3* until a much later point? Mainly, would a 144 champion 2* have better stats than a 166 3*?

I wonder at what level lazythor will overtake 144 2* Thor and lazydaken overtake 144 2* Daken.

I don't know... I kinda hope that the levels mean something, and since 144 is < 166, even a championed 2* Daken would be weaker than a maxed 166 3* Daken. Right?

2* daken can't make 2 strike tiles at once, that is a big deal.

chamber44

JVReal wrote:

Tryke wrote:

As far as I know, there are three "lazy" 3* modeled after 2*. Mohawk is modeled after a 1* so I'll leave her out of this. We all know 2* cap has bad scaling on his abilities and is heavily outstripped by 3* cap so I'll leave him out of this too.

The two I'm curious about are Daken and Thor. 3* Daken and 3* Thor are designed to be very similar to their 2* counterparts outside of stat numbers. The idea is that the 2* have better scaling, but 3* have a higher level cap making them stronger in the long run.

With Champion levels and the abundance of 2* covers compared to 3*, will the scaling on these 2*'s make them comparable or even stronger than 3* until a much later point? Mainly, would a 144 champion 2* have better stats than a 166 3*?

I wonder at what level lazythor will overtake 144 2* Thor and lazydaken overtake 144 2* Daken.

I don't know... I kinda hope that the levels mean something, and since 144 is < 166, even a championed 2* Daken would be weaker than a maxed 166 3* Daken. Right?

I think i agree with you, but one thing i'm curious about is if this means people could skip the 3* transition altogether. If you champion your 2*'s (since covers for them fall like crazy), you'd have a strong roster, but be able to compete with uncovered 3*'s in PvP and keep low levels in PvE. couldn't you place high enough that way to build a really strong 4* roster?

GrumpySmurf1002

Tryke wrote:

As far as I know, there are three "lazy" 3* modeled after 2*. Mohawk is modeled after a 1* so I'll leave her out of this. We all know 2* cap has bad scaling on his abilities and is heavily outstripped by 3* cap so I'll leave him out of this too.

The two I'm curious about are Daken and Thor. 3* Daken and 3* Thor are designed to be very similar to their 2* counterparts outside of stat numbers. The idea is that the 2* have better scaling, but 3* have a higher level cap making them stronger in the long run.

With Champion levels and the abundance of 2* covers compared to 3*, will the scaling on these 2*'s make them comparable or even stronger than 3* until a much later point? Mainly, would a 144 champion 2* have better stats than a 166 3*?

I wonder at what level lazythor will overtake 144 2* Thor and lazydaken overtake 144 2* Daken.

You can see that answer now, when they're boosted.

Quick answer, no 2* Thor @150 still pales in comparison to 3* Thor. 2* Daken @ 150 is closer, but still weaker than the 3* version. So the 144 versions would also be behind.

The advantage both have is they might be better at 144 boosted to, say 220. 2 Thor is behind enough that I still have a hunch he doesn't catch up. 2 Daken should overtake 3*.

From memory, 2* Cap also falls way behind. I think 2* Torch is similar to Daken, probably not better at 144 but boosted he could be superior.

Unknown

I think with the Lazy characters in general, the higher tier characters have better abilities and ability damage, but I THINK, can't confirm, that of-the-same-level 2*s have better match damage, and maybe HP.

i'd need to confirm that, though.

CrookedKnight

Even if 2* Thor's red and green powers scale up well, he's still hurt by the fact that his yellow doesn't gain power with covers, so it lags far behind the 3* version.

Tryke

Totally forgot about baby torch. I get what you're all saying and you make a good point about the boosted part.

Punisher5784

Didn't a player datamine new abilities for 2* Cap and Thor? I remember the spoiler thread was locked and done a few weeks after this was mentioned. Perhaps the 2* versions of lazy characters will have slightly different abilities.. maybe they are even the hold up to the Champion official release.

Tarheelmax

I'm not sure this is taking into account of the fact that 3*s are championed as well.

Yes, a 144 2* Thor may be comparable to a 166 3* Thor (or replace that with Daken).

But a 144 2* Thor is not comparable to a 200 3* thor, or a 230 3* Thor, and certainly no where close to a 266 3* Thor.

The game may balance out 2* and 3* lazy versions a bit i the few months, but eventually the 3* versions are still going to be much stronger.

Tryke

Tarheelmax wrote:

I'm not sure this is taking into account of the fact that 3*s are championed as well.

Yes, a 144 2* Thor may be comparable to a 166 3* Thor (or replace that with Daken).

But a 144 2* Thor is not comparable to a 200 3* thor, or a 230 3* Thor, and certainly no where close to a 266 3* Thor.

The game may balance out 2* and 3* lazy versions a bit i the few months, but eventually the 3* versions are still going to be much stronger.

Oh no doubt. That's why I brought up the cover frequency. We all know 1 and 2* covers flow like water faster than we can hit the sell for ISO button. Consider the current rate at which you collect 3* to 2* and you'd probably max out a 2* with maybe a few covers in your 3*. It'll take a while before everything peters out to maxed 3* champions.

Dragon_Nexus

I forget the order the "lazy" characters came out. I'm pretty sure Thor was first and then maybe Storm?

Either way their philosophy for the characters changed as they brought them out. First off they were just identical copies with some extra damage put on top. It was later they started adding things to them, like Daken creating more strike tiles or Steve Roger's blue shield leaving a protect tile when it returned. The 3*s at least became unique in some way.

I'm glad they dropped the idea though since any suplicate characters now are notably different from their counterparts. 4* Cyclops being nothing like 3* Cyclops, for example.

It's good for 2* peeps to be able to carry their Thors for longer though while building up a new one. Would be nice if characters like 2* Steve get a much higher boost in damage for their abilities to make them not useless.
I mean 800+ damage for 11 red when he's this week's boosted character is just embarrasing.

Kolence

Baby Torch boosted to 150 is still much weaker than level 166 Torch, powers wise. Noticed it relatively recently in a pve thinking how useless tiny Torch felt even when boosted for the week if you had 3*. How it scales beyond current max boosted levels I have no idea. Looks like it will be slightly changed/adjusted anyway?

Lazy Thor overtakes 2* version in double digit levels teritory already, no? Somewhere around ~90, I think? I apologize if I'm off, it's all from memory and talk on the forum, and those discussions were some time ago now...

Dakens could be closest to each other, minus the twice-as-quickly-spitting-out-strike-tiles part. Haven't really played the baby version exactly because.

2* Cap is just pitifull for dealing damage.