Best writeup/explanation of scaling from d3!

Phumade

This should probably be stickied somewhere. I pulled this from a FB post I was browsing, but its actually from D3 customer support.

It does a good job of explaining.
1. how scaling is determined
2. Why the discrepancies in difficulty from the 3 easy, ess, and hard nodes.
3. How 5* are factored into scaling.
4. Scaling is only determined once upon enter a sub/event. you will need to wait to next sub to see effects of any changes you make to your roster.

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hm. this implies level characters after you enter the event LOL!


From D3 Go! Support:

When entering a PvE event or sub-event for the first time, the game will review your current Roster (including buffs/restrictions), and the difficulty of each mission will be based on the strength of your top three characters. Many (but not all) of the nodes in the easier missions are capped at a fairly low level, which means they appear artificially low to a high level team; somewhere between 30-50 usually. Then, when you make the jump to harder missions, it looks really stark because you are jumping up to the level you should be playing against, without the caps.

The matchmaking system for the PvP events does its best to pair you with appropriate opponents, which is not necessarily the player you are skipping matches to find. The intended function of the skip feature is to allow players to find favorable matches or avoid unfavorable ones. Keep in mind that one of the major factors that determine which opponents you're paired with is your personal rank in the event.

As 5-star characters are level 255 when obtained with the possibility of reaching level 270 with its first Comic Cover applied, it is essentially considered to be the strength of a maxed out 4 Star character in your Roster. The balancing for PvE events will take this into consideration when creating the difficulty for each mission. As such, with a 5-star character in your Roster, it will boost the difficulty you experience you encounter in PvE events due to its level compared to the rest of your roster. PvP events should not be affected.

Please keep in mind that if you enter an event for the first time with a Roster, and then quickly make changes, that event is not going to re-calibrate to the new Roster. You will need to enter another, brand new event/sub-event to see your current Roster changes reflected in the missions.

Will move this to tips and guides and sticky it on 01/05

Malcrof

May want to put this in the FAQ thread, also, put some notes in the OP!

simonsez

Unfortunately, nothing they said addresses why people with the same sort of roster should see different scaling.

Lemminkäinen

Five-stars not affecting PvP is bogus. It's untrue, a falsehood. Take a two-star roster, add a five-star and look what happens to PvP. Really, really disappointed that they would lie blatantly about the game's mechanics.

TLCstormz

Lemminkäinen wrote:

Five-stars not affecting PvP is bogus. It's untrue, a falsehood. Take a two-star roster, add a five-star and look what happens to PvP. Really, really disappointed that they would lie blatantly about the game's mechanics.

Exactly.

I have NOTHING but maxed 3*s at 166 after Seed Teams, in PvP. And that's only IF I'm lucky enough to open up a PvP within the first 30 seconds if it starting......

GurlBYE

Might be a good idea to redo scaling so its based on more then 3 characters?

Why would it be a good idea considering even like a useless 4 star with 1/1/1/ would be boosted high on most rosters.
And levels aside how in the world is a 1 cover 5 star anywhere near as threatening as a fully covered 4, even underleveled.

I stil can't understand the game actively punishing you for leveling lol.

KrisPWales

I can definitely confirm the same in PvP since getting a 5* on my roster without even a single maxed 3*.

Unknown

Lemminkäinen wrote:

Five-stars not affecting PvP is bogus. It's untrue, a falsehood. Take a two-star roster, add a five-star and look what happens to PvP. Really, really disappointed that they would lie blatantly about the game's mechanics.

I agree with the fact that 5* characters affect PvP matchmaking. I don't see where you get "blatantly lie" out of their discussion, unless you're referring to something said elsewhere by developers. From the above response from D3:

The matchmaking system for the PvP events does its best to pair you with appropriate opponents ... As 5-star characters are level 255 when obtained ... it is essentially considered to be the strength of a maxed out 4 Star character in your Roster...

I don't see anything there that would even give the impression that 5*s don't affect PvP matchmaking, much less anything that's an outright lie.???

Long ago Ice (I think) was quoted directly that rostering a 5* would not affect PvE scaling, and that has clearly been proven false. Don't know why he was wrong, but he clearly was. There have been a ton of user posts about their scaling experiences, and as far as I can tell they are all consistent with the quote above: 3 characters considered, newbie 5* treated as a maxed 4* (that's never boosted). What exactly that means (big impact, little impact, no impact) depends on the rest of your roster.

I hate all the venom and uncertainty around this issue. As in the OP's post, this is it: 3 characters considered, newbie 5* treated as maxed (unboosted) 4*. End of story, let's move on. I don't like the situation, but the situation is as they say it is.

Unknown

This talk about "5*s totally effect my PVP scaling" makes me wonder why my Level 111 scaled team frequently runs into 1 Level 94 2*, 1 Level 255 5* teams.

Like from this angle that seems to be working fine.

biryon

I don't see anything there that would even give the impression that 5*s don't affect PvP matchmaking, much less anything that's an outright lie.???

Third paragraph:

As such, with a 5-star character in your Roster, it will boost the difficulty you experience you encounter in PvE events due to its level compared to the rest of your roster. PvP events should not be affected.

Lemminkäinen

Sundance2112 wrote:

Lemminkäinen wrote:

Five-stars not affecting PvP is bogus. It's untrue, a falsehood. Take a two-star roster, add a five-star and look what happens to PvP. Really, really disappointed that they would lie blatantly about the game's mechanics.

I agree with the fact that 5* characters affect PvP matchmaking. I don't see where you get "blatantly lie" out of their discussion, unless you're referring to something said elsewhere by developers. From the above response from D3:

The matchmaking system for the PvP events does its best to pair you with appropriate opponents ... As 5-star characters are level 255 when obtained ... it is essentially considered to be the strength of a maxed out 4 Star character in your Roster...

I don't see anything there that would even give the impression that 5*s don't affect PvP matchmaking, much less anything that's an outright lie.???

As biryon noted, there was a very blatant "PvP events should not be affected" which is complete bogus. I am a bit surprised that you did not see it

TLCstormz

lmao. How does one miss PVP IS NOT AFFECTED?????

Heartburn

baby steps. first it was new 5* should not effect pve/pvp. then new 5 stars only effect PVE not PVP. next will be Good luck with your new 5* it effects PVE and PVP.

Nick441234

5* certainly do affect PVE. Since I binned my two 5*, my scaling has dropped 50 levels. As someone who hasn't really broken into 4* land yet, the game has become a lot easier!

Bowgentle

aesthetocyst wrote:

CS and the devs have made reference to how the roster component is supposedly calculated, but no reveal as to how performance is tracked and what impact it has.

which is good, because softcapping is bad enough.
We don't really need to spell out even more ways to game the PVE system.

simonsez

aesthetocyst wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Unfortunately, nothing they said addresses why people with the same sort of roster should see different scaling.

Performance history. In IceIX's "exit interview" (Puzzle Warriors podcast) he stated (again) that roster is the foundation of scaling but that a player's performance history is the major factor. Players who play hard and place well see higher scaling.

That answers "why they do", not "why they should". Shouldn't penalize someone who did well merely via skill and effort.

puppychow

simonsez wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Unfortunately, nothing they said addresses why people with the same sort of roster should see different scaling.

Performance history. In IceIX's "exit interview" (Puzzle Warriors podcast) he stated (again) that roster is the foundation of scaling but that a player's performance history is the major factor. Players who play hard and place well see higher scaling.

That answers "why they do", not "why they should". Shouldn't penalize someone who did well merely via skill and effort.

I don't think you wanna ask the "should" question and open a can of worms. Why allow businesses to be open on sundays? why pay taxes? Why have mandatory health insurance coverage?

Seriously though, a major part of game design is making decisions in how much reward a player should receive for his efforts, whether it's gaining xp, items, or new covers.

Chipster22

Any thoughts on the explanation of scaling in this thread?
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=35429

As I understand it, the author claims that difficulty is based on your top 3 to 7 characters depending on how well you have been performing.

monstermike

Straight **** on 5* not effecting PvP. Added one, hit a wall in every event after the seed teams. Used to be able to hit 650+ pre 5* now getting to 400 is a struggle.

As for PvE, my scaling has not been affected at all.I now have all 5* on my roster and it still didn't change a thing. I've also never used a single one in any event or match.

The email sounds like they got the PvP & PvE explains backwards...

CNash

I think my PvE scaling is starting to be affected by my lone Silver Surfer cover, but I don't know for sure. Before getting SS, my highest leveled characters were all 3*s at 166 (well, now 166-170 thanks to Championing).

In Enemy of the State, the hardest nodes were levels 170-200, which is fair enough. But now, in Unstable ISO-8, the mid-range nodes are 170-200, and the hardest nodes are 225+.

If boosted characters are taken into consideration, that means my "top 3" for this event are Steve Rogers (265), Silver Surfer (255) and Daredevil (240), so my scaling would seem to be "correct" for this roster strength. But why wasn't this a factor in Enemy of the State, where I also had several maxed boosted characters?

Finally, I skipped the PvE prior to Enemy of the State (Dark Avengers: Heroic), whereas I played EotS normally and ranked Top 50. Could this simply be a case of performance-based scaling - whereby it was lowered for EotS as I hadn't participated in Dark Avengers, but bumped back up because I did fairly well in EotS?

Calnexin

As a player in early transition to 4*, I see this as a huge bummer. I've got two worthless 5* characters. My best 4* I think is 168. So those two characters I never use dominate my PvE scaling?

I could dump them, I suppose, but given the rarity I'm inclined to keep everything I get. A year down the road I might have enough leveled 4*s to keep pace, but until then it's a huge level disparity between my highest level characters and the highest level characters I actually use.

The point of the legendary and epic characters is to provide new resources for high-level play, but also to give the lower-tier grinders something to shoot for. Scaling it this way penalizes people who get a lucky draw early in their transition periods. The impact of a low-cover 4* can be mitigated by a strong 2* roster. Having a single 5* automatically punts you into top-tier gameplay.