Symbiotes present a new power level for goons

The Bob The

First things first: I found Venom Bomb innovative and fun (boo! hiss!). I liked the new goons for the most part, but they seemed more difficult somehow, even when on their own. It's not that they have abilities we haven't seen before in a goon, but something seemed different. Consider the goon abilities we have seen so far:

• Generate AP for feeding abilities (theirs or others')
• Create countdown tiles that produce abilities for a cost
• Create special tiles for a cost (I think only Kishu does this with Caltrops)
• Trigger passive effects (usually an if/then structure based on actions or special tile presence)
• Move the board (only Ultron goons so far)*

All the goons we've seen so far at least two abilities from this list. The oldest goons only have the first two (e.g., Muscle generates yellow and black and can produce Threaten countdowns to produce strike tiles). The introduction of ninjas was a leap forward in difficulty because they included goons with three: AP, Countdowns and some with either specials (Kishu's Caltrops) or passives (Teisetsu's Turn to Smoke); these two also have the lowest HP of the ninjas. Ultron goons added board moving, but kept the list at two because they don't generate AP and only have passive triggers (no countdowns).

By this measure, ninjas have had the most developed powerset so far because some have three. Symbiotes step that up because ALL of them have three: AP, countdowns to a payoff (damage), and passive effects generating either damage, special tiles, or augmentation of tiles (typically every turn or upon triggers such as Watchdog). Further, some have considerable HP (such as Demolisher), eliminating the weakness of Teisetsu and Kishu. This is objectively a greater challenge because there are more effects to manage (and that's before they're paired with an active opponent).

I'm not making an argument for nerfing - as mentioned, I liked the event - or appealing to The Great and Powerful Fairness; I don't even have a suggestion, or think this is necessarily bad (or good). With three powers/effects each, however, symbiotes definitely ramp difficulty up to a new level, and that's something I'll consider if Venom Bomb ever shows up again.

Now: Let the complaining commence!

*Note: Even though they're not playable, I consider bosses like Ultron and Galactus (and Gorgon) to be actives rather than goons, in part because they're uniques (and get speaking roles!).

Tatercat

Agreed, I like the new symbiote goons (and I'm someone who was very burnt out on symbiotes after the 90's).

Just please don't put them in the Big Enchilada rotation. They're goons for 3 -4* characters really, and would be too much on someone just getting started in 3* land.

The Bob The

Agreed. They're just constant threat management. You know we're seeing at least one of those Carnage-Venom-feeder nodes in the Gauntlet though.

puppychow

The Bob The wrote:

Agreed. They're just constant threat management. You know we're seeing at least one of those Carnage-Venom-feeder nodes in the Gauntlet though.

Hopefully it will come up when i SKIP the event.

GrimSkald

I don't dislike them, but I do think they need to be used carefully as they represent a distinctively higher difficulty than pretty much anyone but the Ultron Sentries, but by comparison the Ultron Sentries don't increase each other's power nearly as well, and so can be combatted effectively with a good protect tile generator.

By contrast, you need either board shake or special tile destroyers with these guys.

Omega Red

Totally unrelated and trivial but these goon characters look gross, ugly and disgusting.

OnyxSnake

I enjoyed fighting new enemies. I thought the Ghost Rider event would of brought in new goons but these ones seem worth the wait.
I can see why a lot of people are going to hate them but I think they should be added to ddq along with the Ultron Sentries just to mix it up but I'm starting 4* transition so it's easy for me to put together a team to take out the current nodes.
I pick the same two teams either storm/mags/marvel and cage/blade/falcon and auto pilot thru only changing to deadpool/featured/random on the 4th node to collect deadpool points for whales and my taco token.
Add them all to ddq and give me something to look forward to.

PeterGibbons316

Excellent analysis.

I really enjoyed the new content, and agree that these goons don't play like goons. My all goon go-to team is Daken/Blade/Falcon, with Patch/LCap/OBW as a B-Team. Both have ways to eliminate CD tiles, while taking advantage of strike tile generation for big damage and quick matches. But neither of those teams are real effective against these symbiotes. The attack tiles and strike tiles are generated faster than the CD tiles making them can be matched away, or eliminated through abilities. OWB extending the timer is of no benefit either. So these battles become more of a "kill the weakest symbiotes as quickly as possible regardless of what enemy tiles are on the board" type of match. Kind of like the Galactus events that were so loved where you had better have a fast team or you were in trouble.

STOPTHIS

I'm not a huge fan of them. Plenty of goon squads play well with each other, but these really feed into each other. I feel they do too many things and it can all quickly spiral out of control and in a way that can be too luck heavy. Fighting goons is one of the few aspects of the game that feels like a puzzle. Making the call to eat a pistol shot or let threaten go off, to make a better match for myself the following turn is actually fun for me. These new goons are too chaotic for my liking. And if I'm being honest, I'm a little bitter they have no draw backs like all of the symbiote characters we get.

The Bob The

STOPTHIS wrote:

I'm not a huge fan of them. Plenty of goon squads play well with each other, but these really feed into each other. I feel they do too many things and it can all quickly spiral out of control and in a way that can be too luck heavy. Fighting goons is one of the few aspects of the game that feels like a puzzle. Making the call to eat a pistol shot or let threaten go off, to make a better match for myself the following turn is actually fun for me. These new goons are too chaotic for my liking. And if I'm being honest, I'm a little bitter they have no draw backs like all of the symbiote characters we get.

I think these are really good points. I tried to keep my analysis as neutral as possible, but I think it's fair to say they present a higher level of difficulty. I am positive we are going to see that Venom-Carnage-feeder node in the next Gauntlet (unless they find something even worse to pair them with).

The Bob The

aesthetocyst wrote:

The only ability that surprised me was tile-buffing. That's new in goons, isn't it?

Think so. I can't recall another goon that does it. I learned to take down the Carriers quickly for that reason, although the stupid dogs are a primary target as well.

aesthetocyst wrote:

With the flat coloring, I thought they all resembled Play•Do, toothpaste, peanut butter, etc....or possibly silly fantasy characters from 1980s or 1990s animated features. Heavy Metal, maybe? Extras from the late '80s Inferno storyline?

I forget whether it was in DS or KA that I heard this - it's not my idea, at any rate - but I call 'em Flubbers now because, well ...

jffdougan

I think one variety of Ultron sentries can buff friendly specials.

The Bob The

jffdougan wrote:

I think one variety of Ultron sentries can buff friendly specials.

The Flyers can convert to health at a certain number, and the Gunner can convert to criticals, but no augmentation of existing tiles in the powersets I checked.

Akari

During the last Gauntlet was the first time I realized that I really needed to be storing whales for future use (I was lazy, only had 3 for the whole Gauntlet and used them in the wrong places, barely cleared it). If these guys start coming around in future Gauntlets, that's when all my work will have paid off.

Gonna look forward to dropping some narwhals and avoiding this whole fiasco entirely.

jffdougan

The Bob The wrote:

jffdougan wrote:

I think one variety of Ultron sentries can buff friendly specials.

The Flyers can convert to health at a certain number, and the Gunner can convert to criticals, but no augmentation of existing tiles in the powersets I checked.

I stand corrected. Did say "I think," though.

The Bob The

jffdougan wrote:

The Bob The wrote:

jffdougan wrote:

I think one variety of Ultron sentries can buff friendly specials.

The Flyers can convert to health at a certain number, and the Gunner can convert to criticals, but no augmentation of existing tiles in the powersets I checked.

I stand corrected. Did say "I think," though.

No worries. Making me check my work isn't a bad thing.