Should Jean Grey be nerfed?

20three20three Age Unconfirmed Posts: 371
edited January 2016 in MPQ Character Discussion
A loaded question. Personally I think so, well really just psychic feedback because it is far too powerful for something you can do accidentally. So my suggestion is change the power to match the description.

When the opponent makes a Match 5, Jean destroys up to 3 AP in their strongest color, stuns the enemy team 1 turn and deals 247 damage to them.

When I purposely make a match 5, the attack should fire off. Not when it randomly occurs for means beyond my control, that much is ridiculous. Other than that, she seems fine.
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  • DrStrange-616DrStrange-616 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 993 Critical Contributor
    She's very powerful, but I'm pretty much in a no-nerf camp.

    I want the underpowered characters (and there are sooo many) to be improved. So many 4*s stink on ice. Give the others some more juice to allow teams more variety and give people a good reason to drop the dump truck of ISO necessary to level them.
  • wymtimewymtime Posts: 3,573 Chairperson of the Boards
    I only have her at 3,2,5 and I do not think she needs a nerf. I take her on all he time in PVP and she really is not scary at all. I would rather take her on then a defense of Thing XFDP because I can bring an AOE still. Her Purple and Green take a lot of AP and if you can avoid match 5's you can take her down.

    Remember she was introduced to keep Profesor X from being nerfed. They nerfed MNMags and Mystique because of Profesor X because it was a winfinity.

    If you look at on offense how often does the AI really get a match 5 anyway. It is primarily from massive cascades. JG is top tier but her blue is not broken and fairly easy to avoid.
  • MawtfulMawtful Posts: 1,646 Chairperson of the Boards
    Her passive punishes you for playing the game. So does Loki, although he gives you a (small) chance to try and prevent the worst of it.

    I think her power should be changed, but it's actually very fragile and a big nerf would reduce her to worthless. I can't trust Demiurge to be subtle, so it's probably best to keep her as is.

    The only change I would make is to the stun. The extra turn for Jean's team is a bit much. Either keep the stun at 1 turn, or change the power to simply end the turn of the opposing team (a variation of the "ends the turn" mechanic).
  • Punisher5784Punisher5784 Posts: 3,177 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2016
    If they nerf JG then they might as well just nerf Iceman and HB..

    The point is, we no longer need nerfs. We have a wide variety of characters at all tiers to handle any situation.

    We should worry about 5*s not 4 and 3*s
  • SnowcaTTSnowcaTT Posts: 3,405 Chairperson of the Boards
    She's a top 4* for sure....but there are others up there with her. I think Colog had her at #3 (or was it #5)? You just see her everywhere like HB since those are two good ones that work well together and are older than some of the other good ones (like Cyc or Ice).

    Once again....buffs not matter how much you nerf the top five, the bottom four or five (IW, SL, MrF in particular) won't be seeing more play. That should be addressed first.
  • GuntherBlobelGuntherBlobel Posts: 987 Critical Contributor
    Are we talking nerfs all of a sudden because of the Venom change? This is the second nerf poll this week.
  • AronditeArondite Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,188 Chairperson of the Boards
    Basically you wanna remove rng from an RNG-based game
  • OzarkBoatswainOzarkBoatswain Posts: 657 Critical Contributor
    I consider her the best 4* but she is not unfairly powerful. I'd be OK with a minor nerf but it's not needed.
  • rollxrollx Age Unconfirmed Posts: 71 Match Maker
    She is a strong character, but I feel fair for the most part. I voted "yes" because her purple is a bit overpowering. The only nerf I would give her is make her purple power end the turn instead of still giving you a match opportunity. Other than that she is fine.
  • TxMooseTxMoose Age Unconfirmed Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    if she's in need of a nerf, then many others are too including ice and rulk. devs seem to have eased up on the power creep recently but jean is not op - doesn't even top some polls/ranks.
  • JarvindJarvind Posts: 1,684 Chairperson of the Boards
    She's a glass cannon - hurts real bad, but that's balanced by her relatively low HP. And it's generally pretty easy to avoid making match-5s until she is down. I could even see not killing her first, depending on the situation.

    You'll occasionally cascade into unwanted match-5s, but there's always going to be a luck element to contend with. Honestly, virtually everyone specs her 5/3/5 so getting whacked w/ the passive is hardly a game-ender.
  • DEWDuckDEWDuck Age Unconfirmed Posts: 84 Match Maker
    So the OP would like to have a decently powered 4* nerfed, when she barely stands a chance against the out crop of completely over powered 5*? If not for her and some of the other powerful 4*, some of us veteran players that suffer from extremely bad draw luck would never be able to compete.
  • I'm in the nerf camp...but not 'nerf', just adjustment, she simply has too many utilities wrapped up in a single character.

    No she isn't invincible and yes she can be beaten, but whenever a character is a complete no brainer character - then they7 should be looked at, and its different from buffing other characters to fall in line with her...Anti-match-5 with stun, 3 AoE dmg moves, clears special tiles, etc, that's not something you can really balance against. IMHB? He's AP generation and dmg, you can balance against that - he's fine as is.

    Actually the closest we have to JG is Loki, "erasing" special tiles, and slowing the game down due to his match 4. Instead we get almost twice the health, 2 outright attacks that are AoEs, instead of getting a chance to recover from a cascade, you are instnatly stunned, lose AP and take dmg, all the while getting AP slower than usual as you avoid certain matches. Loki doesn't have ANY attacks. He's still got **** health...naw, the more I look at it she does need an adjustment. The only way to buff people "to her level" would involve stupid dmg adjustments and AP adjustments that would take forever to actually 'vet' against the rest of the cast.
    - Unreall
  • TxMooseTxMoose Age Unconfirmed Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    she's not even the top ranked 4* character. I trust colog's assessment and he (and many others) rank ice ahead of her. so are we going to follow this thread up with a "should iceman be nerfed" thread?
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    20three wrote:
    When I purposely make a match 5, the attack should fire off. Not when it randomly occurs for means beyond my control, that much is ridiculous. Other than that, she seems fine.

    So now you want the positive benefits of cascades without the possible negative side effects of cascades? I trust you also don't want an enemy Loki getting all Mischievous when you "unintentionally" make a match-4?

    I don't think you want to open this can of worms design wise.

    I have my control freak tendencies, but also appreciates how the game's random elements represent the vagaries of battle. How the cookie crumbles.

    Should she be nerfed? Nope.

    I second aesthetocyst. To me the only change I would do is switch the damage of purple and green and actually boost her blue dmg at level 5 since it sorta seems weak
  • Der_LexDer_Lex Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,035 Chairperson of the Boards
    No she isn't invincible and yes she can be beaten, but whenever a character is a complete no brainer character

    Actually, with Ice-Man out there, she's definitely no longer a no-brainer character. In fact, I think of those two, Jean is only a better pick against opponents that create a lot of special tiles (JG/SW is probably the best anti-goon combo out there, enhanced when you add KP to the mix) or characters like Iron Fist or Lazy Thor that have a tendency to create match-5's. Ice-Man, on the other hand, has the best stun in the game that gives you 4 turns to collect a mere 6 AP for a big 8000 HP punch, a green that does twice the damage Jean's green does, and a cheap third move that feeds his blue, improves damage on his green AND hinders any opposing team with a red user. He's a lot closer to overpowered than Jean is.
  • jobobjobob Posts: 646 Critical Contributor
    I don't think so. You can, to an extent, control most of your match-5's. Don't make them, for one thing, and don't fire color changing powers like IF purple or Thor Yellow. Also, even though you are at the mercy of the RNG, it doesn't mean that each move has the same chance of a cascade, for example, if the top of your board looks like this:
      Y Y * Y Y * * * R * * * R * * * * R * *

    then don't make the red match, make the yellow one, as a red match has better than a 1 in 7 chance of firing off an "accidental" crit.

    And yes, freak cascade sucks when you match it... but it's luck of the RNG. It sucks when an enemy makes it (especially if Prof X is on their team).

    Her two AOEs are great, but they do cost a lot, and you only have to deny her two colors.

    Also, for me, the game is more fun when you can't use the same 3 over and over. Against Jean, you need to take someone with a stun, or a massive single-target damage, or just be more careful about which matches you play.
  • Buret0Buret0 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,591
    Her blue just needs a minor adjustment. You shouldn't get the extra stun turn until 4 or 5 covers. Her purple is always a threat, her blue is only a threat to certain team compositions.

    Blue is an "I dare you to bring a battery" skill. Which is great, because before she came along, those skills were an obvious must. I've talked about this before, but there are alternative methods of gathering AP coming available in the newer generation of characters that avoid Jean's power.

    Devs just need to offer more variety than the common "I turn the board [color]" solution (Hulk, Hulkbuster's blue, Iron fist, KK... too many others)

    Here are some examples of where they have offered alternatives to board manipulation/saturation (leading to high match 5 chance):

    Hulkbuster, Kingpin, and Red Hulk type powers where the AP is added directly instead of by manipulating the board.
    Hood and Widow type powers that steal AP.
    Loki's AP theft chance.
    SpiderMiles's power to gain AP when web tiles are matched (see also Elektra I guess).
    4Clops's ability to gain SC AP whenever TUT are matched.
    MRF's terrible ability to obtain green based on the number of F4's when an opponent matches a friendly tile.

    Jean's blue is a scarecrow to those who rely upon quick and dirty battery powers that rely on changing the board. I see Jean as a quick target to take down so that she can't use her purple. The stun isn't as big a deal because I almost always bring in three true healers and Silver Surfer can't be stunned (my current favorite team is Surfer 5/2/2, OML 1/1/1, and 4Pool 3/5/5, but that's for the PvP events where I can choose all three, like Sim and between season).
  • kensterrkensterr Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,277 Chairperson of the Boards
    Why wanna nerf her? Because you don't have her maxed?
  • CackfiendCackfiend Age Unconfirmed Posts: 6
    I'm seeing 4-star Jean Grey in every top PvP team now. The Psychic Feedback is EXTREMELY overpowered. Its absolutely ridiculous that this much randomness has been added into the game. Accidentally cascade into 1-2 5 block matches? Game Over.

    If this isnt changed I dont see myself continuing to play :/
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