Should Iron Fist be nerfed?

20three20three Age Unconfirmed Posts: 371
edited December 2015 in MPQ Character Discussion
I honestly don't care one way or the other. On one hand, I think it's way too dangerous, effective, and powerful for what it is, but I also have a fully covered Iron Fist (though not optimally) but I really don't use him as much as I should. Regardless, his passive is unarguably ridiculously cheap and game-changing, do you think it should be altered?

Potential ideas:
It does nearly 2 times a match-3 damage practically every turn, maybe lower the damage
Maybe there should be a limit to how many times it respawns
Maybe it should just be a low-cost attack
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Comments

  • Punisher5784Punisher5784 Posts: 3,177 Chairperson of the Boards
    IF's attack tile was technically "nerfed" when 95% of the characters received health increases. Also keep in mind that all the new characters have very high health. The attack tile, while a nuisance, isn't as gamebreaking as when IF was first released.

    The only thing that annoys me about IF's attack tile is that it made Pyslocke, Punisher's and other older character's attack tile become very inferior.
  • SnowcaTTSnowcaTT Posts: 3,405 Chairperson of the Boards
    HAhahahahahahaha! Good one! Oh wait...serious topic?!?

    IF is one of the best (if not the best) 3*....but 3*'s are nothing compared to 4*'s.

    Instead of nerfing IF, how about buffing the least used 3*'s like IM/Spidey/Ock/SG/QS...this would benefit D3, since then folks would actually sink ISO into them!
  • GMadMan040GMadMan040 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 207
    In the world that is the current MPQ, IF is not really a threatening opponent unless he is boosted. He is fantastic on offense, even for players who are primarily using 4* characters, because he has such a great skill set for acceleration.

    But on defense? Unless he is boosted, he's actually fairly easy to take out before he can do any real damage. Why is that? Because his HP pool is low and the AI is just not that good. He is obviously a very common sight in PVP, and I have taken him out more times than I can count. He's definitely someone that deserves priority attention when facing him, but smart play eliminates the trouble.

    Also worth noting, if there is any kind of attack tile on the board, IF's passive does not fire.

    Every rarity has their top tier characters. True of any game of this nature. Learning how to deal with them effectively (managing the meta) is just part of navigating the game. It's only when characters create an impossible level of imbalance that they need to be looked at through the nerf lens, not just because they are used a lot. A possible example might be Iceman's 6 AP, 4-turn stun, which is a preposterously dominant skill to have on both offense and defense.

    That's my take anyway.
  • AronditeArondite Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,188 Chairperson of the Boards
    Of course he's not worth nerfing. The metagame is now balanced and focused around the 4-star tier, with secondary emphasis on 3's.

    He's a very good 3-Star; Top 5 or so as standalone, best when you factor his 4-Star pairing(s). He's not head and shoulders above his tier, though.
  • BowgentleBowgentle Posts: 5,038 Chairperson of the Boards
    His nerf is called Jean Grey.
  • I do not feel like I can make the 3* transition without a fully covered Iron Fist, because he seems so key with so many matchups and teams, and is heads and shoulders above the other 3* characters.

    In my level of play (2-3* transistion), he on a team that looks well covered is an automatic skip, as I'm going to take a ton of damage from his attack tile until I can kill him, which will take a decent amount of time and there's probably better targets I can take down.

    He's the OBW of his tier, except he actually attacks well too, and is scary on his lonesome instead of being something I feel like I can fight if I take him out first.

    The only argument for keeping him I see here is "4*s are way stronger anyways, 3*s aren't nearly as relevant anymore" which doesn't do a lot for me right now since I ain't sniffing any 4*s yet.

    "Buff literally everybody else" sounds more fun, but something about it feels kinda..eh I guess? I don't know what it is.
  • AronditeArondite Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,188 Chairperson of the Boards
    colwag wrote:
    I do not feel like I can make the 3* transition without a fully covered Iron Fist, because he seems so key with so many matchups and teams, and is heads and shoulders above the other 3* characters.

    In my level of play (2-3* transistion), he on a team that looks well covered is an automatic skip, as I'm going to take a ton of damage from his attack tile until I can kill him, which will take a decent amount of time and there's probably better targets I can take down.

    He's the OBW of his tier, except he actually attacks well too, and is scary on his lonesome instead of being something I feel like I can fight if I take him out first.

    The only argument for keeping him I see here is "4*s are way stronger anyways, 3*s aren't nearly as relevant anymore" which doesn't do a lot for me right now since I ain't sniffing any 4*s yet.

    "Buff literally everybody else" sounds more fun, but something about it feels kinda..eh I guess? I don't know what it is.

    If he's not paired with top echelon Black users (Cyclops in the 3* Tier; IMHB, XFW in the 4* Tier) he's actually remarkably easy to handle. If you're having trouble with him without one of those major outlets, you're probably too early in the transition to be accurately assessing a 3*'s power relative to his tier. There are more dangerous Stand-Alone 3*'s, such as Thor. Develop your roster a bit more and see if you still feel the same about IF.

    If he is paired with those major outlets and you're basing your assessment on that, you should really be skipping heavily accelerated teams and 3+4 teams until you're similarly developed, and being a whole tier behind (2+3 vs 3+4) is probably painting your opinion of IF moreso than IF himself.
  • HendrossHendross Posts: 762 Critical Contributor
    Bowgentle wrote:
    His nerf is called Jean Grey.
    Speaking of need a nerf.
  • Arondite wrote:
    If he's not paired with top echelon Black users (Cyclops in the 3* Tier; IMHB, XFW in the 4* Tier) he's actually remarkably easy to handle. If you're having trouble with him without one of those major outlets, you're probably too early in the transition to be accurately assessing a 3*'s power relative to his tier. There are more dangerous Stand-Alone 3*'s, such as Thor. Develop your roster a bit more and see if you still feel the same about IF.

    If he is paired with those major outlets and you're basing your assessment on that, you should really be skipping heavily accelerated teams and 3+4 teams until you're similarly developed, and being a whole tier behind (2+3 vs 3+4) is probably painting your opinion of IF moreso than IF himself.

    Yeah, my fears of Iron Fist are not ones related to his black-acceleration, but his stance on his own.

    Mainly that **** attack tile, though. It basically says to me "Bring Luke Cage or suffer a ton of damage"

    but I am talking about like, fighting 166-140 Fists with, at best, boosted 150 2*s, or max covered level 95 3*s.

    I feel better taking on 3* Thor because I feel like I can AP denial him well enough, compared to how much damage IF does for 0 AP.

    But I may be too scarred from that one PVE Hunt node where you had IF, Falcon, and a Don I think, and how much that kicked my tush constantly, and that doesn't exactly sound like anything close to IF's ideal team.

    I may be unreasonably scared, though.
  • Der_LexDer_Lex Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,035 Chairperson of the Boards
    Hendross wrote:
    Bowgentle wrote:
    His nerf is called Jean Grey.
    Speaking of need a nerf.

    Her nerf is called Iceman.
  • getterwinggetterwing Age Unconfirmed Posts: 52
    SnowcaTT wrote:
    HAhahahahahahaha! Good one! Oh wait...serious topic?!?

    IF is one of the best (if not the best) 3*....but 3*'s are nothing compared to 4*'s.

    Instead of nerfing IF, how about buffing the least used 3*'s like IM/Spidey/Ock/SG/QS...this would benefit D3, since then folks would actually sink ISO into them!

    You will see a lot of use for Dr Oct.... esp for the new goon types introduced in the venom bomb.

    But I agree that dev should buff some other least used 3* such as spidey, QS. But in fact Squrrial girl is a very powerful 3*.
  • snlf25snlf25 Posts: 947 Critical Contributor
    edited December 2015
    Should Iron Fist be nerfed?

    No. No he should not. I'll tell you what we need though. We need a mod, a real mod, a People's mod, a real man's mod. Their job will be to scour these topics and lock ban delete kthnxbai any user who dares use the Nerf-Word. Unless it is used with the proper respect and in proper context.

    Proper uses of the word:

    That nerf sucked!
    Nerfing (insert character here) was the dumbest thing the devs ever did!
    Do Not Nerf Anymore.
    Buffs Not Nerfs
    Nerf and we riot!
    They ruined the game when they Nerfed (insert character here)!
    The devs are ruining the game with all these nerfs!

    Improper uses of the word:

    Please nerf (insert character here).
    (Insert character here) needs nerfed.
    Should they nerf (insert character here)?

    This guide is by no means complete but is a good starting point. icon_cool.gif

    Mod edit: Nerfed text. -DayvBang
  • slaxer723slaxer723 Posts: 40 Just Dropped In
    He was already nerfed once. He doesn't need the the double nerf bat like spidey received.
  • Chrono_TataChrono_Tata Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    Yes, Iron Fist is a top-tier character who is much stronger than most of the 3-star characters, and in a perfect world we would probably see him readjusted to be more in-line with everyone, and the devs would also make buffs to the over half of the 3-star cast that are practically unviable without weekly/feature buffs.

    Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world and the devs give zero damns about balancing the game, and almost every nerf attempt has been disastrous for the victims, so let's not encourage them to nerf any character.
  • cyineedsncyineedsn Posts: 361 Mover and Shaker
    The correct answer is about 1/3 to 1/2 of the 3*s should be buffed to be 3/4 as useful in multiple situations like Iron Fist is. That will literally never happen, even though all it would take for half of them is tweaking the AP cost of some the ludicrously overpriced abilities for many of them. But that will be a cold day in hell before that happens.

    So no, iron fist should not be nerfed because he's one of the main gateways to the 3*->4* transition for many many people. If you nerf him, you basically nerf almost everyone in 3* land trying to transition to 4* land because he's a mainstay in trying to fight and compete against 4*s.
  • OzarkBoatswainOzarkBoatswain Posts: 657 Critical Contributor
    5 AP to add 7 black tiles to the board is a bit too good. It's just so easy to store up 10 purple AP then destroy the board. I'd raise it to 6 AP and increase the damage proportionately.
    His passive is very good but doesn't need a nerf. As mentioned, the 3* health buff was already a stealth nerf.
  • AronditeArondite Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,188 Chairperson of the Boards
    5 AP to add 7 black tiles to the board is a bit too good. It's just so easy to store up 10 purple AP then destroy the board. I'd raise it to 6 AP and increase the damage proportionately.
    His passive is very good but doesn't need a nerf. As mentioned, the 3* health buff was already a stealth nerf.

    Moving it to 6 doesn't really do anything to players who aren't using boosts (5 is 2 matches ; 6 is 2 matches); it also doesn't do anything to players using boosts except make them cut into their paid boosts (5 requires +2 Blue/Purple; 6 requires +2 Blue/Purple +1 ALL).
  • OzarkBoatswainOzarkBoatswain Posts: 657 Critical Contributor
    Arondite wrote:

    Moving it to 6 doesn't really do anything to players who aren't using boosts (5 is 2 matches ; 6 is 2 matches); it also doesn't do anything to players using boosts except make them cut into their paid boosts (5 requires +2 Blue/Purple; 6 requires +2 Blue/Purple +1 ALL).

    I wasn't worried about one casting of purple. Is this what the HB+IF teams are doing?
  • PuceMoosePuceMoose Posts: 1,407 Chairperson of the Boards
    Like most people, I voted no, as he seems just right - powerful, but also a little bit of a glass cannon. His relatively low health means he will succumb fairly quickly. He's a great "comeback kid" - I've had several battles that went terribly where he was the last brightly-clad hero standing on my team, and he started punching faces off of heads because I *finally* managed to land that magical 12 black AP. Very satisfying.
    The only thing that annoys me about IF's attack tile is that it made Pyslocke, Punisher's and other older character's attack tile become very inferior.

    That is so true! That's probably the worst thing about Iron Fist - he makes me sad when I click on almost every other Attack Tile user (ditto with Luke Cage and protect tiles). Punisher especially - given the pitiful chance of the countdown remaining long enough to produce even one weak attack tile, I'd love to see it either generate a massive one (say 750 at max level, max cover), or just do away with the countdown tile altogether and spawn three attack tiles in the 100-150 range with the ability resolves.
  • DayvDayv Posts: 4,449 Chairperson of the Boards
    snlf25 wrote:
    Should Iron Fist be nerfed?

    No. No he should not. I'll tell you what we need though. We need a mod, a real mod, a People's mod, a real man's mod. Their job will be to scour these topics and lock ban delete kthnxbai any user who dares use the Nerf-Word. Unless it is used with the proper respect and in proper context.

    I have nerfed your post. Pray I do not nerf it further.
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