Versus Comment/Concern

Unknown

Hi all!

I've always wondered this, and seeing as I could not find anything regarding it, I thought I might make my own forum post to get the community's thoughts.

In PVP events (and maybe even PVE, though, to me, it is bit as apparent) I find it hard to wrap my head around the fact that as I compete for a high rank in these versus events I am going against people with rosters that make my head spin. I'm trying to compete with my level 86 ares and 80 Magneto the person currently occupying the top spot (with an immense lead) has every 4 and 5 star character maxed at level 450 (sometimes two of the same). One person on their roster equals the combined level of my entire team. I have nothing against people with ridiculously high rosters (a bit jealous, but I respect it), but why am I competing with them for a top spot? Should I not be competing with people with similar rosters to me? How could I ever dream of achieving a rank 1-3 if I have to compete with a guy (or girl) that has two 450 level silver surfers and 2 maxed pheonix's, and pretty much everyone else imaginable?

Maybe I don't understand the placement in these PVP events, but I find it hard to motivate myself to get the top places if I have to unfairly compete against thse sort of people.

What are your thoughts? Thanks in advance.

XandorXerxes

Maraxus410 wrote:

Hi all!

I've always wondered this, and seeing as I could not find anything regarding it, I thought I might make my own forum post to get the community's thoughts.

In PVP events (and maybe even PVE, though, to me, it is bit as apparent) I find it hard to wrap my head around the fact that as I compete for a high rank in these versus events I am going against people with rosters that make my head spin. I'm trying to compete with my level 86 ares and 80 Magneto the person currently occupying the top spot (with an immense lead) has every 4 and 5 star character maxed at level 450 (sometimes two of the same). One person on their roster equals the combined level of my entire team. I have nothing against people with ridiculously high rosters (a bit jealous, but I respect it), but why am I competing with them for a top spot? Should I not be competing with people with similar rosters to me? How could I ever dream of achieving a rank 1-3 if I have to compete with a guy (or girl) that has two 450 level silver surfers and 2 maxed pheonix's, and pretty much everyone else imaginable?

Maybe I don't understand the placement in these PVP events, but I find it hard to motivate myself to get the top places if I have to unfairly compete against thse sort of people.

What are your thoughts? Thanks in advance.

In theory you compete with everyone, and you get placed in a spot that helps you to progress while you look on at the top from a distance and think "I'll be there one day."

In practice, good luck hitting the progression rewards you need to actually progress. You may find joining with 30-45 minutes before the end of the PvP to be more beneficial to you.

Good luck!

Punisher5784

I am hoping for the new year the devs will finally release separate PVP/PVE events for Casual/Newbies & Competitive/Vets with appropriate reward tiers and progression.

san

Hi Maraxus. Welcome to the forums, and to MPQ. I say that without the least bit of sarcasm. The question you ask has been asked over and over again. There are two main camps here, from what I can tell.

In Camp 1, you have new(ish) players, mostly, who would like to see themselves competing against comparable rosters because, well, it's what any other game would generally do. This DOES happen to a degree, mind you, with the way the game structures personal scaling and PVP matchmaking, but this is a complex issue you can look into yourself.

Camp 2 consists primarily of veteran players, time wise, who have higher level rosters and have "paid their dues" so to speak. Their argument is that they have had to suffer through the early part of the transition, much like you seem to be struggling, and that new players shouldn't get a "free pass" into the top competition spots. They argue that if newer players were matched against only newer players, then the progression would be too quick (earning 4*s very quickly and moving to veteran tier), and that this would invalidate that individual veteran's early work. Since the work to get their rosters was tedious, and there is some validity to the idea of faster movement up the ranks, they argue that this should be left as is.

The unfortunate thing is, this game has no tiers, and therefore, we all compete for the SAME rewards, rather than those we need.

As it currently stands, things for newer players HAVE improved. I remember coming into this game around the last anniversary, so I was about a year behind most. It took months to get to even begin my transition, and was very challenging. DDQ was introduced much later, as were many other features that sped up player progress. While I do not resent these, and believe they have improved the overall game, I am certainly aware of how fast newer players are moving up in the ranks, and pushing us old, not-as-competitive-as-whale, players out of top spots.

TL;DR: Anyways, enjoy the conversation I am sure you are about to have with others, but that's the background story here. New players want rewards, and they have every right to, and old players wish to have some sort of an edge over newbies because the put in the time.

Unknown

san-mpq wrote:

Hi Maraxus. Welcome to the forums, and to MPQ. I say that without the least bit of sarcasm. The question you ask has been asked over and over again. There are two main camps here, from what I can tell.

In Camp 1, you have new(ish) players, mostly, who would like to see themselves competing against comparable rosters because, well, it's what any other game would generally do. This DOES happen to a degree, mind you, with the way the game structures personal scaling and PVP matchmaking, but this is a complex issue you can look into yourself.

Camp 2 consists primarily of veteran players, time wise, who have higher level rosters and have "paid their dues" so to speak. Their argument is that they have had to suffer through the early part of the transition, much like you seem to be struggling, and that new players shouldn't get a "free pass" into the top competition spots. They argue that if newer players were matched against only newer players, then the progression would be too quick (earning 4*s very quickly and moving to veteran tier), and that this would invalidate that individual veteran's early work. Since the work to get their rosters was tedious, and there is some validity to the idea of faster movement up the ranks, they argue that this should be left as is.

The unfortunate thing is, this game has no tiers, and therefore, we all compete for the SAME rewards, rather than those we need.

As it currently stands, things for newer players HAVE improved. I remember coming into this game around the last anniversary, so I was about a year behind most. It took months to get to even begin my transition, and was very challenging. DDQ was introduced much later, as were many other features that sped up player progress. While I do not resent these, and believe they have improved the overall game, I am certainly aware of how fast newer players are moving up in the ranks, and pushing us old, not-as-competitive-as-whale, players out of top spots.

TL;DR: Anyways, enjoy the conversation I am sure you are about to have with others, but that's the background story here. New players want rewards, and they have every right to, and old players wish to have some sort of an edge over newbies because the put in the time.

Great to meet you! And thank you for the extremely thoughtful response. I appreciate you taking the time to answer my question, and I do apologize if I re-asked a question that has probably been discussed at nauseam as I don't believe I am the first to have had it.

In response to your message, I do understand both sides: if people are paying money to gather covers, increase their rosters, and level their favorite heroes, they should have the advantage. I completely, and whole-hardheartedly respect that. However, there are a lot people that cannot afford to do such a thing, so, in seeing as everyone fights for the same reward, so to speak, that, in my opinion creates an odd unbalance in the ranking structure. I always feel that I am at the top simply because those people with these intense rosters of 5 and 4 star heroes are simply allowing me to be. I have to constantly (and I mean constantly) defend my position in hopes I will at least stay in the top 100, while always feeling like these top tiered people could overlap me, and tack on a 400 point lead whenever they felt like it, and probably not use a single medpack in the process.

I understand the pay structure, and I love any means of supporting this company. Their art, the detail, the freedom of heroes (and most recently Eddie Brock as Venom, which I cannot begin to tell you how much I adore the art (hopefully someone affiliated with the process understands how much I love it)), it all makes this game so enjoyable and addicting.

But as another comment wrote above, I do agree that new(ish) players and veterans should not be "lumped in", so to speak, together. Place us in our own brackets accordingly. I don't even mind if the lower brackets didn't have nearly as lavish of rewards as the higher brackets, but that just acts as an incentive and reward for qualifying for those top tiered brackets. And I'm sure veterans would enjoy the added challenge of really testing those mammoth rosters they acquired.

In a nutshell, I understand where the concerns come from, and although they are well-founded, they can also be easily rectified. This game is still just starting out, so I know there will be a lot of changes down the road that may make this problem moot. But as I watch these high powered people easily place top 3, continuing to acquire cover after cover after cover after cover without much difficulty, it seems they will only continue to surpass everyone, while others, still trying to compete won't get the opportunity to place like them. I have no problem in spending money on the game, but I cannot imagine how much money it took to get 3 maxed silver surfers, 2 maxed phoenix's, and 2 maxed of every 4 and three star hero (I've seen rosters like this). Because if that's what it takes to even compete for top spot, why even try?

SnowcaTT

I have neither the needed time each event or the money to place in the very top of PVP, even with a good roster. I've T1 once, and T5'd only a handful of times in almost two years.

Long ago I looked at it, and first said: T250 is good enough for me. then T100! Then T50! Now I'm sitting eternally happy with T50, and hopeful of T25...but willing to accept that without that time/money investment higher than that is not likely.

Unknown

Maraxus410 wrote:

Maybe I don't understand the placement in these PVP events, but I find it hard to motivate myself to get the top places if I have to unfairly compete against thse sort of people.

I think you do understand the placement, and you're not going to get the top places. For maybe the next year or so, I think your roadmap should be something like:

1)Play the lightning rounds and normal PvP events as soon as they open. Like, within 5 minutes of start-time. You'll face "seed" teams, which have the essential loaner (just like you'll have) and then 2 low-level (<20) opponents. You can beat those teams and earn 2star covers faster than any other method. Ignore progression and placement for now.

2) Once you have a small team of maxed 2*s (check guides and tips to see which are best), you can start joining normal PvP events with ~1 hour to go. The hope is that there won't be the normal 500 players, and you'll be able to place t100. That will give you 1 3* cover per event. You won't always get lucky with an underfilled bracket at the end, but it'll get you started.

3) Once you have at least 1 3* cover for each toon, you can play DDQ (beatable with 2* teams) and add 1 more 3* cover per day. Of course you wont have them all, but play the ones you do have and target your roster for the 'best' 3*s (again, check the guides and tips forum).

4) Once you have a strong 3* team, you can start joining PvP events normally and aiming for the 800pt progression target, which will earn you a 3* cover just like t100. It's much harder to get 800+ than to snipe t100 by joining late, but on your way to 800 you'll earn 100 HP, which is good. You'll also start to learn how to beat harder teams to get there.

That's it. In about a year you'll be able to shield-hop your way to 800 pts and earn 3* covers that, by then, you won't need anymore.

There is no current method other than whaling to improve beyond that point. You won't ever hit top places in PvP. Enjoy the game!

(btw, there is a lot that can be done in PvE to progress, but that's a different discussion entirely and still has no viable path to 4*+)

TxMoose

I'm with snowcatt. really don't pay attn. to t1 or t3. those are taken by the very best in the xxx,xxx players in the game (i.e. spent significant money in top alliances and most have been in the game ~2 years). if being #1 is your desire/goal/drive, you will to put significant time/money into the game and be very patient. building competitive rosters takes lots of time and lots of effort, even if accelerated with $$. after day 391, I too am content with t50/1300 pts with occasional t10 and one t5 finish. progress happens quickly early and progressively slows as your roster gets better, which can lead to disappointment later as things slow to a crawl.

I recommend don't worry about the top of the game until it is relevant to you. those who've been in the game for over 2 years longer than you will always be ahead of you. but that's ok, because at its roots, it is (can be) a great game. find your enjoyment from what you can and have fun with the game. good luck and merry Christmas

txm

san

Maraxus410 wrote:

...But as another comment wrote above, I do agree that new(ish) players and veterans should not be "lumped in", so to speak, together. Place us in our own brackets accordingly. I don't even mind if the lower brackets didn't have nearly as lavish of rewards as the higher brackets, but that just acts as an incentive and reward for qualifying for those top tiered brackets. And I'm sure veterans would enjoy the added challenge of really testing those mammoth rosters they acquired.

In a nutshell, I understand where the concerns come from, and although they are well-founded, they can also be easily rectified. This game is still just starting out, so I know there will be a lot of changes down the road that may make this problem moot. But as I watch these high powered people easily place top 3, continuing to acquire cover after cover after cover after cover without much difficulty, it seems they will only continue to surpass everyone, while others, still trying to compete won't get the opportunity to place like them. I have no problem in spending money on the game, but I cannot imagine how much money it took to get 3 maxed silver surfers, 2 maxed phoenix's, and 2 maxed of every 4 and three star hero (I've seen rosters like this). Because if that's what it takes to even compete for top spot, why even try?

The tier idea has been suggested many, many, many times. I don't know if I can count how many times someone has brought this up, to be honest. There are pros and cons. One great aspect of that is rewarding players with what they need. However, the downside would be that it may make arbitrary cutoffs, and people could still scam the system. There are two ways (that I know of) to do this. One is to do a buy-in, but this would open up the system to abuse, as vets could buy into easy brackets with new folks, and dominate. The other idea is to automatically select based on roster strength, but this would also be abused as people would underlevel their rosters, as already happens with PVE folks.

There is still a point in trying, and I'd encourage you to do so. The game is quite fun once you're past the 3 star transition. That part sucks.

JamesV

san-mpq wrote:

Maraxus410 wrote:

...But as another comment wrote above, I do agree that new(ish) players and veterans should not be "lumped in", so to speak, together. Place us in our own brackets accordingly. I don't even mind if the lower brackets didn't have nearly as lavish of rewards as the higher brackets, but that just acts as an incentive and reward for qualifying for those top tiered brackets. And I'm sure veterans would enjoy the added challenge of really testing those mammoth rosters they acquired.

In a nutshell, I understand where the concerns come from, and although they are well-founded, they can also be easily rectified. This game is still just starting out, so I know there will be a lot of changes down the road that may make this problem moot. But as I watch these high powered people easily place top 3, continuing to acquire cover after cover after cover after cover without much difficulty, it seems they will only continue to surpass everyone, while others, still trying to compete won't get the opportunity to place like them. I have no problem in spending money on the game, but I cannot imagine how much money it took to get 3 maxed silver surfers, 2 maxed phoenix's, and 2 maxed of every 4 and three star hero (I've seen rosters like this). Because if that's what it takes to even compete for top spot, why even try?

The tier idea has been suggested many, many, many times. I don't know if I can count how many times someone has brought this up, to be honest. There are pros and cons. One great aspect of that is rewarding players with what they need. However, the downside would be that it may make arbitrary cutoffs, and people could still scam the system. There are two ways (that I know of) to do this. One is to do a buy-in, but this would open up the system to abuse, as vets could buy into easy brackets with new folks, and dominate. The other idea is to automatically select based on roster strength, but this would also be abused as people would underlevel their rosters, as already happens with PVE folks.

There is still a point in trying, and I'd encourage you to do so. The game is quite fun once you're past the 3 star transition. That part sucks.

Tier play should restrict the characters that can be used in it.
If you did two tiers:

• Tier 1 is the same system as now but restricts 5*, with a (slightly) reduced buff to 3* and 4* characters. This keeps the focus on 3* and 4* play, rewards would be similar to what they are now. PVP focus characters would still be 3*.
• Tier 2 would be the higher tier, only letting players use 3* or above characters. 3* and 4* would have a slightly stronger buff than the current system (with 4* getting the bigger buff). Reward structure would be modified from the previous tier (increase of ISO and HP to accommodate the higher tiers), increase the cover rewards to the next level (200 = 3*, 800 = 4*, 1000* = legendary, 1300 = 5*), and do something similar with placement. PVP focus for these would be 4* characters.

EDIT: if you tier off the characters and rewards, than it shouldn't matter that much if a "vet is slumming it" as they are still playing by the same restrictions.

Eddiemon

Maraxus410 wrote:

why am I competing with them for a top spot? Should I not be competing with people with similar rosters to me? How could I ever dream of achieving a rank 1-3 if I have to compete with a guy (or girl) that has two 450 level silver surfers and 2 maxed pheonix's, and pretty much everyone else imaginable?

.

Why do you think you deserve a rank 1 to 3?

This game has two features, a match 3 game and roster building. The roster building component is meant to give you an advantage in the game. That guy in #1 is killing it on the roster building side, while you aren't. Thats why he gets to be top in players competing against other players.

It's not all one way traffic though. Your opponents will mostly be people with 2 star rosters like yourself while he's only earning his points killing behemoth rosters like his own.

Additionally if you're only on 2 stars, there are rewards down to 100 that will make your roster better, you don't need #1 to get rewarded for your effort and progress on the roster building side of the game.

If they started completely segregating competitions based on rosters then they break their own financial model. If you can be #1 with your current roster then why would anyone put any money into the game? Developing your roster would actually become counterproductive.

Unknown

Everyone,

Thanks for taking the time to help a new(ish) player such as myself understand more about this game. Please do not think for a second that I created this thread to complain (although, at times, it may have sounded like I was). I honestly was simply curious as to how things functioned, and how they were decided. And to answer the above comment, no, I don't think I DESERVE to be rank 1-3, I just hope I had that chance. But now I know better haha.

Appreciate all the kind and well-though-out remarks by everyone. Great introduction to a wonderful community.

The Bob The

Maraxus410 wrote:

san-mpq wrote:

Hi Maraxus. Welcome to the forums, and to MPQ. I say that without the least bit of sarcasm. The question you ask has been asked over and over again. There are two main camps here, from what I can tell.

In Camp 1, you have new(ish) players, mostly, who would like to see themselves competing against comparable rosters because, well, it's what any other game would generally do. This DOES happen to a degree, mind you, with the way the game structures personal scaling and PVP matchmaking, but this is a complex issue you can look into yourself.

Camp 2 consists primarily of veteran players, time wise, who have higher level rosters and have "paid their dues" so to speak. Their argument is that they have had to suffer through the early part of the transition, much like you seem to be struggling, and that new players shouldn't get a "free pass" into the top competition spots. They argue that if newer players were matched against only newer players, then the progression would be too quick (earning 4*s very quickly and moving to veteran tier), and that this would invalidate that individual veteran's early work. Since the work to get their rosters was tedious, and there is some validity to the idea of faster movement up the ranks, they argue that this should be left as is.

The unfortunate thing is, this game has no tiers, and therefore, we all compete for the SAME rewards, rather than those we need.

As it currently stands, things for newer players HAVE improved. I remember coming into this game around the last anniversary, so I was about a year behind most. It took months to get to even begin my transition, and was very challenging. DDQ was introduced much later, as were many other features that sped up player progress. While I do not resent these, and believe they have improved the overall game, I am certainly aware of how fast newer players are moving up in the ranks, and pushing us old, not-as-competitive-as-whale, players out of top spots.

TL;DR: Anyways, enjoy the conversation I am sure you are about to have with others, but that's the background story here. New players want rewards, and they have every right to, and old players wish to have some sort of an edge over newbies because the put in the time.

Great to meet you! And thank you for the extremely thoughtful response. I appreciate you taking the time to answer my question, and I do apologize if I re-asked a question that has probably been discussed at nauseam as I don't believe I am the first to have had it.

In response to your message, I do understand both sides: if people are paying money to gather covers, increase their rosters, and level their favorite heroes, they should have the advantage. I completely, and whole-hardheartedly respect that. However, there are a lot people that cannot afford to do such a thing, so, in seeing as everyone fights for the same reward, so to speak, that, in my opinion creates an odd unbalance in the ranking structure. I always feel that I am at the top simply because those people with these intense rosters of 5 and 4 star heroes are simply allowing me to be. I have to constantly (and I mean constantly) defend my position in hopes I will at least stay in the top 100, while always feeling like these top tiered people could overlap me, and tack on a 400 point lead whenever they felt like it, and probably not use a single medpack in the process.

I understand the pay structure, and I love any means of supporting this company. Their art, the detail, the freedom of heroes (and most recently Eddie Brock as Venom, which I cannot begin to tell you how much I adore the art (hopefully someone affiliated with the process understands how much I love it)), it all makes this game so enjoyable and addicting.

But as another comment wrote above, I do agree that new(ish) players and veterans should not be "lumped in", so to speak, together. Place us in our own brackets accordingly. I don't even mind if the lower brackets didn't have nearly as lavish of rewards as the higher brackets, but that just acts as an incentive and reward for qualifying for those top tiered brackets. And I'm sure veterans would enjoy the added challenge of really testing those mammoth rosters they acquired.

In a nutshell, I understand where the concerns come from, and although they are well-founded, they can also be easily rectified. This game is still just starting out, so I know there will be a lot of changes down the road that may make this problem moot. But as I watch these high powered people easily place top 3, continuing to acquire cover after cover after cover after cover without much difficulty, it seems they will only continue to surpass everyone, while others, still trying to compete won't get the opportunity to place like them. I have no problem in spending money on the game, but I cannot imagine how much money it took to get 3 maxed silver surfers, 2 maxed phoenix's, and 2 maxed of every 4 and three star hero (I've seen rosters like this). Because if that's what it takes to even compete for top spot, why even try?

I think by "paid their dues," he means "have played hard for a long time," not literally referring to those that have paid real world money to get ahead in the game (although that's a factor too). The idea is that 4*s and multiple 3*s are the rewards for top placement, and these most benefit vets with developed rosters (and can actually mess up scaling for weaker rosters), therefore it's not helpful to anyone for newer players to easily hit high placement awards with the current non-tiered structure.

DrLemniscate

I think the simplest solution would be to have concurrent pvp events with featured 1, 2, 3, and 4* characters. Make the events exclusive with their own set of brackets, progression rewards, and placement rewards.

Then 4* players could choose between the 3* or 4* featured event, and leave the newbies to their own brackets. Sure, they could be tiny kitties and Lord over the 1* or 2* events, but would be giving up the much better progression and placement rewards in the higher tier events.

puppychow

My advice to newcomers: FORGET ABOUT PLACEMENT. I think your focus for pve is the progression rewards. Play whatever node you can, grind as much as you can, without buying heal packs. Your goal in pvp is to hit 300 points and get the token. Anything more is gravy.

Whatever you get for placement is icing on the cake.

TLCstormz

Seed Teams disappear after the first 60 seconds of some PvPs and Lightning Rounds. lol. Trust me.

Also.........

san-mpq wrote:

As it currently stands, things for newer players HAVE improved. I remember coming into this game around the last anniversary, so I was about a year behind most. It took months to get to even begin my transition, and was very challenging. DDQ was introduced much later, as were many other features that sped up player progress. While I do not resent these, and believe they have improved the overall game, I am certainly aware of how fast newer players are moving up in the ranks, and pushing ***us old, not-as-competitive-as-whale, players*** out of top spots.

Wait.....You consider YOURSELF a veteran? You've barely been playing a year, right? Add have I. Vets have put in more time than that, plus they have the "Vet Attitude," right?

XandorXerxes

Maraxus410 wrote:

Appreciate all the kind and well-though-out remarks by everyone. Great introduction to a wonderful community.

Did you mean to post this on a different game's board? I'm confused.

/harhar

Feel free to ask any questions. Only some of us will bite your head off.

Arondite

Basically, to answer your question "how am I supposed to win", Id have to reply "youre not supposed to, yet.

Think about it this way. You are currently an "almost" 2-Star player. Your team, as you mentioned, is currently an almost-complete Ares and an almost-complete Magneto. Your strength can't possibly earn your a top spot, but if you were you'd be getting 4-Star heroes, essentially skipping an entire tier (3-star) after enough event-wins.

Instead, you win more two-stars right now. And once you have almost all the two-stars, you'll have them all maxed at 94 and have whichever ones are the weekly boosted virtually every week. This will let you compete for 3-Star prizes, sneaking into progression or placement awards when your best twos are boosted. Over time your 3-Stars will be "almost-complete", and you'll notice yourself acquiring them more rapidly.

When that happens, you'll soon reach the stage where your 3-Stars are in a situation like I described for the 2-Stars - always having the weekly boosted heroes on hand. Those weeks, you'll bring down 4-Star heroes, and then you'll be able to build your 4-Stars!

Basically, it's a step progression system. You don't get to pop in and be #1 in your bracket after a couple of weeks.