Elektra's Shadow Step working while she is stunned

JVReal

I was playing DDQ Big Enchilada, and Elektra cast her Shadow Step, I stunned her for 5 turns with Scarlet Witch and she still was not taking damage.

She should not be able to dodge damage if she is stunned. I know they are trap tiles that remain active and are triggered when she takes damage, but regardless of the mechanism in place to make the ability work... the fact of the matter is that the ability is her dodging damage and retaliating... which she should not be able to do while stunned.

Ability vs mechanics that are used to make the ability work. This needs to be fixed... since you can in fact kick a person while they are down.

CrookedKnight

That's more of an argument for trap tiles in general not functioning while their owner is stunned.

Daredevil can ambush you while stunned.

X-23 can follow your trail while stunned.

Scott Lang can continue releasing Pym Particles while stunned.

etc, etc. I can't think of a trap effect that should be able to activate, flavor-wise, while the character is completely disabled. Which is why it follows, to me, that being stunned is not being completely disabled, but rather only able to perform those abilities that are such second nature for a character that they can continue them even while too disoriented or tripped-up to use the rest of their repertoire.

Dayv

CrookedKnight wrote:

etc, etc. I can't think of a trap effect that should be able to activate, flavor-wise, while the character is completely disabled.

Nick Fury's Demolition, maybe.

JVReal

CrookedKnight wrote:

That's more of an argument for trap tiles in general not functioning while their owner is stunned.

Daredevil can ambush you while stunned.

X-23 can follow your trail while stunned.

Scott Lang can continue releasing Pym Particles while stunned.

etc, etc. I can't think of a trap effect that should be able to activate, flavor-wise, while the character is completely disabled. Which is why it follows, to me, that being stunned is not being completely disabled, but rather only able to perform those abilities that are such second nature for a character that they can continue them even while too disoriented or tripped-up to use the rest of their repertoire.

I just figure if Wolverine can't passively heal when stunned... these traps should be disabled while stunned.

SirLanik

It does feel a little odd, but currently while Passive abilities and Countdown Tiles do not trigger when a character is stunned, Traps do have effect.

I do like this, and it does make some sense- a trap is something you set ahead of time that triggers when a certain thing happens. In this case, it happens even when they are stunned.

This is an important design distinction, and actually gives the developers a lot more options to create abilities that operate in a particular manner.

BlackSheep101

I'm fine with the trap mechanic being different from countdowns. They should probably attempt to make the distinction more obvious in ability descriptions, though.

Nightglider1

SirLanik wrote:

It does feel a little odd, but currently while Passive abilities and Countdown Tiles do not trigger when a character is stunned, Traps do have effect.

I do like this, and it does make some sense- a trap is something you set ahead of time that triggers when a certain thing happens. In this case, it happens even when they are stunned.

This is an important design distinction, and actually gives the developers a lot more options to create abilities that operate in a particular manner.

(Bolding mine)

Unless they've changed the behavior, XFW's yellow countdown tile will still fire if you match it while he's stunned.

TxMoose

countdown tiles do not 'count down' while stunned. match items (xf yellow, daredevil blue, xpool purple, etc), will proc even when stunned.

Dayv

TxMoose wrote:

countdown tiles do not 'count down' while stunned. match items (xf yellow, daredevil blue, xpool purple, etc), will proc even when stunned.

I believe you can also trigger a countdown from a stunned character by forcing it to hit 0 with another skill (Hood black, 4* Sam Wilson blue). I haven't verified this, but am pretty certain it works.

SirLanik

Correct, you can match Xforce Wolvies tile and have it blow up, and other abilities can force them down to 0, when I said trigger I mean they will not countdown/activate on their own, if left alone, while their owner is stunned.

TxMoose

I think I posted this somewhere else too but i'll post it here since its relevant. I view traps like landmines. you set a landmine but get knocked out by a stun grenade - the landmine still functions even if you're unconscious. pretty sure working as intended.

JVReal

TxMoose wrote:

I think I posted this somewhere else too but i'll post it here since its relevant. I view traps like landmines. you set a landmine but get knocked out by a stun grenade - the landmine still functions even if you're unconscious. pretty sure working as intended.

While I agree that most traps are indeed traps... her ability is not a trap ability. It is an active dodging your attack and damaging you back maneuver being facilitated by means of the trap mechanic... She isn't throwing out traps, she's dodging your attacks which she can't do when stunned.

When Nick Fury lays a trap, it's there and it is an actual trap, his function was placing the traps then they are independent.

"Elektra senses an attack coming and prepares to dodge into the shadows." Negating the damage through dodging and damaging you instead... which she shouldn't do when stunned. I guess a trap tile isn't the best way to make this happen.

I guess DD is the same way right? He's stunned but can suddenly roundhouse you in the head while stunned, then lay back down in the stunned position he was in prior?

On the other hand... maybe I'm not understanding what her shadow step really is. Is it a one time dodge, then you are seeing false versions of her that you try to hit, but damage you instead? Then they disappear as you attack them... or match them away? You then can't damage the real her until the false versions of her are gone?

I'm not sure what the best way to make the abilities function in game according to what is supposed to be occurring in them based on descriptions.

Dayv

A trap is a trap is a trap. All the description or animation of it doing something else is just flavor -- it doesn't change the fact that it's a trap tile and follows trap tile rules.

BlackSheep101

If we had a nice reference that explained exactly how traps differ from countdowns and such, then people wouldn't look to the ability descriptions for insight into game mechanics.

As it stands, if traps go off no matter what, ability descriptions should be tailored to match the mechanic. (since the people writing this stuff presumably know how the game works)

Dayv

BlackSheep101 wrote:

If we had a nice reference that explained exactly how traps differ from countdowns and such, then people wouldn't look to the ability descriptions for insight into game mechanics.

As it stands, if traps go off no matter what, ability descriptions should be tailored to match the mechanic. (since the people writing this stuff presumably know how the game works)

I think you have a valid point, but I also think any flavor text always runs the risk of conflicting with the abstract game underneath. You can only get so much logic in your descriptions when you're actually playing a puzzle RPG underneath.

Buret0

BlackSheep101 wrote:

If we had a nice reference that explained exactly how traps differ from countdowns and such, then people wouldn't look to the ability descriptions for insight into game mechanics.

As it stands, if traps go off no matter what, ability descriptions should be tailored to match the mechanic. (since the people writing this stuff presumably know how the game works)

For example, 4Pool's CD4W tiles appear in game as CD tiles, but they are described in the text as being boxes with traps in them. Somehow these traps have a time limit or they fizzle out and just blow up the cube they were in without dealing damage. However, if 4Pool is stunned, the CD freezes and extends the life of the traps. However, like a trap tile, they will explode on you even if 4Pool is stunned. Unlike a trap tile, they cannot be overridden.

Getting stunned is actually a bonus for 4Pool because it extends the life of his traps. It's like going to jail in the later stages of monopoly: you still collect rent, but you can't land on your opponent's hotel.