Tweaking down Juggernaut

fnedude

So why does Juggernauts' power allow the owner (computer/player) take another turn afterwards, considering their board-shaking power and cascade potential?

Hood's Twin Pistol doesn't? (it ends your turn). As does Sentry's Supernova?

How about toning Jugs down a little bit?

(After loosing to Jug's again in PvE...., and that's not just sour grapes, his board shaking ability is disgusting for the cascades it can cause).

binarypillbug

Yeah, Juggernaut needs to be adjusted. I'd raise his power costs or at least his green to 9 AP at least.

His HP could also do with being reduced - I get that he's supposed to have high HP but his is just ridiculous. I was doing some checking and he seems to use the same HP values as Galactus? That doesn't sound right.

TxMoose

I think he's fine until he scales to level 94 or so. increase his ability costs to 7 at level 100, then for every ~50 levels over 100, his ap costs need to be raised by 1. that would nix much of his use in bop and combined arms, but would certainly help in pve. probably not in the business plan though.

FaustianDeal

Juggy gets a little heinous as PVE scaling runs rampant toward the end of an event. He's not the only 1-2* Dark Avenger character with an ability costed <=6 that goes from being annoying to lethal somewhere north of lvl270. I resent Chemical Reaction and Onslaught as much (if not 20% more) than Juggy's powers because those both fire @ 5.

abmoraz

As annoying as he is, I don't see the problem as being that big. Yes, the scaling gets a bit out of hand, but it's not like they are unbeatable... just use some strategery. There are several strategies that work well against the Dark Avengers when they are scaled to ridiculous levels.
1. Hate match red and use a red damage heavy char (cyc, She-Thor, Gamora, Deadpool, LCap, etc...)
2. Use AP sucking characters against him (Hood, Loki, widow) and put a tank in front of them to protect them.
3. Use AP generating characters to charge up faster (She-Thor, Cap. Marvel, Thor, hulks) and nuke/stun
4. Use Auto healing (ms. Marvel + low cost partners, wolverines)
5. Use stunners to keep them from firing their most hurtful powers (CStorm, LCap, Scarlett Witch, Mr. Fantastic, Widow, Mystique, spider-man, daredevil, She-thor)

Or better, use a combination of the above. I tend to prefer something like 4* wolvie, 4* She-thor, and Hood or Daredevil, Ms.Marvel, and Loki. They each have some stun, some AP denial/boost, and some use for the red/blue/green you will inevitably be hate-matching to slow the Dark Avengers down.

Don't underestimate Ms. Marvel's purple power, either. She is a great way to get most/all of one color off the board. Use it to deny the enemy red (Juggs/Moonstone) or blue (Daken), rather than to pump her green.

And even then, if you get a bad cascade, it's not like you don't have 10 health packs. Heal up and try again.

Warbringa

A better solution would be to moderately tone down his green and/or red ability by reducing effects or increasing AP but give him a yellow power to balance out. Give him a Force Field yellow power (in comic's he was able to generate a force field at times) that is somewhat similar to Colossus in that it generates a countdown tiles that reduce damage while active (say 25%) and when they end, generates strike tiles. The Force Field starts defensive but becomes an offensive power. Juggernaut was supposed to never tire so he could use some healing as well and since its a yellow power it fits in. Would give people pause to consider 5 yellow instead of 5 green or red for example. Strike tile strength wouldn't be spectacular but an added plus, probably close to Daken's levels I guess. All stats are for level 1.

Could call it "I'm the Juggernaut...."

Yellow AP 8

Rank 1: Produces two 3 turn yellow countdown tiles randomly, when each resolves converts each tile to a 4 power strike tile in its place. While countdown tiles are active, damage is reduced by 25% to Juggernaut.
Rank 2: Produces 3 random tiles....same as above.
Rank 3: Same as above but damage is reduced by 30% while countdown tiles are active.
Rank 4: Strike tiles produced are increased by 100% in strength and damage is reduced by 35% while active.
Rank 5: Countdown tiles can now be manually placed. Juggs heals 30 life for each countdown tile that resolves.

At level 50: strike tiles max at 15 (30 when doubled) and life healed per countdown tile maxes at 300.

His green power should have the number of tiles reduced early on and AP modified:

Green AP starts at 10 and stays functionally the same:

Rank 1 - 10 tiles
Rank 2 - 11 tiles
Rank 3 - 12 tiles, 1 less AP cost
Rank 4 - 14 tiles
Rank 5 - 16 tiles, 1 less AP cost

His red power is ok except AP costs needs to be slightly raised:

Star red AP: 12 but can keep the same as current.

OneLastGambit

abmoraz wrote:

As annoying as he is, I don't see the problem as being that big. Yes, the scaling gets a bit out of hand, but it's not like they are unbeatable... just use some strategery. There are several strategies that work well against the Dark Avengers when they are scaled to ridiculous levels.
1. Hate match red and use a red damage heavy char (cyc, She-Thor, Gamora, Deadpool, LCap, etc...)
2. Use AP sucking characters against him (Hood, Loki, widow) and put a tank in front of them to protect them.
3. Use AP generating characters to charge up faster (She-Thor, Cap. Marvel, Thor, hulks) and nuke/stun
4. Use Auto healing (ms. Marvel + low cost partners, wolverines)
5. Use stunners to keep them from firing their most hurtful powers (CStorm, LCap, Scarlett Witch, Mr. Fantastic, Widow, Mystique, spider-man, daredevil, She-thor)

Or better, use a combination of the above. I tend to prefer something like 4* wolvie, 4* She-thor, and Hood or Daredevil, Ms.Marvel, and Loki. They each have some stun, some AP denial/boost, and some use for the red/blue/green you will inevitably be hate-matching to slow the Dark Avengers down.

Don't underestimate Ms. Marvel's purple power, either. She is a great way to get most/all of one color off the board. Use it to deny the enemy red (Juggs/Moonstone) or blue (Daken), rather than to pump her green.

And even then, if you get a bad cascade, it's not like you don't have 10 health packs. Heal up and try again.

Do you work for demiurge? lol

Personally I honed my denial game by match damaging OP Juggs to death, and you're right...any one of these dark avengers alone is a piece of cake, there is no way to deny red yellow green and blue all at the same time (like when fighting say...Ares/Daken/Juggs). It is literally impossible.

The simple and fair fix is increase their AP costs when they scale up...there, now nobody complains about those attacks. The attacks themselves aren't the problem it's the insane frequency of them which is.