**** Miles Morales (Spider-Man) ****

bobbyfish

Got him up to 4/3/3 without really noticing, has anyone done much roadtesting to know if he's worth an ISO dump? I guess enough to cover his DDQ when it comes to it

Blahahah

bobbyfish wrote:

Got him up to 4/3/3 without really noticing, has anyone done much roadtesting to know if he's worth an ISO dump? I guess enough to cover his DDQ when it comes to it

Yeah. I did some roadtesting, he is a decent battery. His red is very meh, Hide and Seek is actually a pretty baller 1v1 tool.
Only problem is its really hard to find that delicate balance where he is getting enough webs to be useful, but not using up enough resource of other, more impressive characters.

If you pair him with say Gwen and treat him the same way you'd treat Scarlet Witch in a team (just used for support), then he can be one of the scarier characters around.
Otherwise though, he isn't much of a good character.

Cheap red means it might sap color from better, more damaging reds. It does good damage for only 6 mana, I think about 500~ damage per AP, but you have juggernauts like HBIM who is doing 630 per. Stun is great and all, but I'd prefer to almost one-shot something than give it a chance to fight back.

His purple has a bit of power behind it, but honestly you'll basically be using it to flood the board with web tiles. Thats not to say its bad, but the main characters who would use it as anything other than 1 red/blue/purple a piece either share a color or are spiderman. If you play your cards right, it can one-shot a lot of 4*s. Also lets him dodge a lot of things (pretty great at dodging carnage cancer, but only if you can protect that purple.)

His yellow is basically the bread winner. Throw down some web tiles, get some juicy AP gain in 3 colors any time anyone matches a web. Only problem is consistency, its hard to justify dropping 8 yellow for no damage when characters like Cyclops populate the same tier.

Take from that what you will. Not much reason to use him when you can do Jean and Cyclops for more or less a better effect.

bobbyfish

Blahahah wrote:

bobbyfish wrote:

Got him up to 4/3/3 without really noticing, has anyone done much roadtesting to know if he's worth an ISO dump? I guess enough to cover his DDQ when it comes to it

Yeah. I did some roadtesting, he is a decent battery. His red is very meh, Hide and Seek is actually a pretty baller 1v1 tool.
Only problem is its really hard to find that delicate balance where he is getting enough webs to be useful, but not using up enough resource of other, more impressive characters.

If you pair him with say Gwen and treat him the same way you'd treat Scarlet Witch in a team (just used for support), then he can be one of the scarier characters around.
Otherwise though, he isn't much of a good character.

Cheap red means it might sap color from better, more damaging reds. It does good damage for only 6 mana, I think about 500~ damage per AP, but you have juggernauts like HBIM who is doing 630 per. Stun is great and all, but I'd prefer to almost one-shot something than give it a chance to fight back.

His purple has a bit of power behind it, but honestly you'll basically be using it to flood the board with web tiles. Thats not to say its bad, but the main characters who would use it as anything other than 1 red/blue/purple a piece either share a color or are spiderman. If you play your cards right, it can one-shot a lot of 4*s. Also lets him dodge a lot of things (pretty great at dodging carnage cancer, but only if you can protect that purple.)

His yellow is basically the bread winner. Throw down some web tiles, get some juicy AP gain in 3 colors any time anyone matches a web. Only problem is consistency, its hard to justify dropping 8 yellow for no damage when characters like Cyclops populate the same tier.

Take from that what you will. Not much reason to use him when you can do Jean and Cyclops for more or less a better effect.

great, thanks! I'll probably hold off until his DDQ then

Pwuz_

bobbyfish wrote:

Got him up to 4/3/3 without really noticing, has anyone done much roadtesting to know if he's worth an ISO dump? I guess enough to cover his DDQ when it comes to it

Huh, I got mine up to 4/1/1 without noticing. RnJesus must love his Purple.

Phaserhawk

Pwuz_ wrote:

bobbyfish wrote:

Got him up to 4/3/3 without really noticing, has anyone done much roadtesting to know if he's worth an ISO dump? I guess enough to cover his DDQ when it comes to it

Huh, I got mine up to 4/1/1 without noticing. RnJesus must love his Purple.

I also just noticed mine is level 75 and 5/1/3 My Totally Useless Hulk is 4/2/5 somehow too.

Miles is a solid 4*. After the Big 5 (JG,IMHB,IM,Cyc,RH) he is as good as any to level up. DPX,Carnage,Miles are all good choices

stochasticism

My RNGesus also loves the purple. He somehow got to 5/2/3 without me noticing.

Tarheelmax

Pwuz_ wrote:

I still find it weird that Hide & Seek toggles with Surprise ignoring the Invisibility tile.

How is it a "Surprise" when he's visible? It makes sense that it's a surprise attack worth some serious damage when he's invisible because he's hiding. How does it make sense that he's standing there visable (because his invisibility tile has been destroyed) and is able to surprise anyone?

So, I haven't played with him much but it makes sense to me (unless using the invisibility feature changes the ability to surprise for the rest of the match).

He's hiding and jumps out and sucker punches someone, by doing that he is giving up his location (in other words, destroying his invisibility).

Pwuz_

Tarheelmax wrote:

Pwuz_ wrote:

I still find it weird that Hide & Seek toggles with Surprise ignoring the Invisibility tile.

How is it a "Surprise" when he's visible? It makes sense that it's a surprise attack worth some serious damage when he's invisible because he's hiding. How does it make sense that he's standing there visable (because his invisibility tile has been destroyed) and is able to surprise anyone?

So, I haven't played with him much but it makes sense to me (unless using the invisibility feature changes the ability to surprise for the rest of the match).

He's hiding and jumps out and sucker punches someone, by doing that he is giving up his location (in other words, destroying his invisibility).

Not what I ment, and in the case you explain I'm totally fine with it.

My issue is that when he casts Hide & Seek, but then his invisibility tile is destroyed, his purple ability stays Surprise even though he is no longer invisable.

Try it out. Cast his purple, then match away his invisability tile before casting the 2nd time. He will still execute Surprise.

Polares

Well I have a dilemma, I just pulled a purple cover so I can respec him to 5/4/4 or 5/5/3, so I need help to decide which is better. My big question is how good is really his yellow?

I think that probably it is going to be better if I respec him to 5/4/4. 4 yellow creates maximum number of web tiles and creates red and purple AP (dont planing too use him with 3 spidey or any other blue user), so yellow at 4 seems good enough. Then red at 4 is not spectacular, but at least it does double damage than red at 3, and if in the future I get another red I could respec him to 5/3/5 (which I think it is in general the prefered build).

Then of course there is Gwen, I still dont have enough covers, but I guess in the future she can be miles best friend, and then miles red is going to be useless....

Anybody has some tips?

wymtime

Polares wrote:

Well I have a dilemma, I just pulled a purple cover so I can respec him to 5/4/4 or 5/5/3, so I need help to decide which is better. My big question is how good is really his yellow?

I think that probably it is going to be better if I respec him to 5/4/4. 4 yellow creates maximum number of web tiles and creates red and purple AP (dont planing too use him with 3 spidey or any other blue user), so yellow at 4 seems good enough. Then red at 4 is not spectacular, but at least it does double damage than red at 3, and if in the future I get another red I could respec him to 5/3/5 (which I think it is in general the prefered build).

Then of course there is Gwen, I still dont have enough covers, but I guess in the future she can be miles best friend, and then miles red is going to be useless....

Anybody has some tips?

At 5,4,4 you are still generating purple and red. If you are only using him for DPDQ at this point in time that is the way to go. 5 in yellow generates blue when the web tiles are matched so you have to bring a blue user. The reality is 5,3,5 will work fine since generating 6 red for venom blast is not that hard.
Overall he is not that strong compared to some of the other new release characters with more health and power. Nova, Punisher, Quake, and even Venom are worth putting big ISO into before MM.

ClydeFrog76

So I'm using my 1/0/0 Miles (w00t!) for the first time in today's Crash and I'm a bit confused.

Hide and Seek becomes Surprise when the invisibility tile gets created, makes perfect sense. But why doesn't Surprise go back to Hide and Seek if the invisibility tile gets matched? He's not invisible any more, how can he surprise someone?

edit: Just read some posts above, glad I'm not the only one perplexed by this!

Polares

I have been playing with him lately, specially in the Hulk event, and he is very solid char, just shy of being a very good one. He is very fun to play with. I have some problems with his design though that I would love if a dev would address (yeah I know it is not going to happen).

I don't understand the cost of the yellow active (8 AP when it creates less web tiles than purple and it doesn't turn you invisible?!?!), and I think this is the ability that would make him great. If his yellow was 5, he would be so much better, creating a lot of web tiles that would make his purple and red so much faster (or any other char red's even faster not looking at you Gwen).

Also, why red scale so much from 3-4 and from 4-5 ?!?!? That is not normal for a 4 (they are usually in the+40% from 3-4 and in the +70% 4-5 range, not double every time, just look as his purple for reference). I think this is also very odd. (?!?!??!?!?!?!?)

As is right now, I think probably 5/3/5 is his best build, better than 5/4/4 because of the big damage spike in this red from 4 to 5

Blahahah

The yellow's main benefit is how it gives Miles the ability to generate up to 3 different colors when webs are matched.
That's affected into the cost a bit. At 5 yellow you're effectively getting 12 AP, albeit spread evenly over 3 colors, 4 of which will be going into purple. It also augments your other ability, hide and seek, by giving you about 15 more AP (again spread over 3 colors).

Like if it was only 6 yellow instead of 8, Miles would basically become a slightly faster Iron Man with less AoE but no self-stun

TxMoose

Blahahah wrote:

The yellow's main benefit is how it gives Miles the ability to generate up to 3 different colors when webs are matched.
That's affected into the cost a bit. At 5 yellow you're effectively getting 12 AP, albeit spread evenly over 3 colors, 4 of which will be going into purple. It also augments your other ability, hide and seek, by giving you about 15 more AP (again spread over 3 colors).

Like if it was only 6 yellow instead of 8, Miles would basically become a slightly faster Iron Man with less AoE but no self-stun

this all assumes they get matched, which is no guarantee. that's like directly comparing damage on trap abilities to straight damage abilities which is guaranteed. to me his yellow is nice but pretty unreliable and somewhat expensive for my actual returns (not potential returns) - mine is at 4 covers. it does fuel his purple if you can get enough there or it can really slash Gwen's cost. wish there wasn't so much overlap between those 2.

Blahahah

TxMoose wrote:

Blahahah wrote:

The yellow's main benefit is how it gives Miles the ability to generate up to 3 different colors when webs are matched.
That's affected into the cost a bit. At 5 yellow you're effectively getting 12 AP, albeit spread evenly over 3 colors, 4 of which will be going into purple. It also augments your other ability, hide and seek, by giving you about 15 more AP (again spread over 3 colors).

Like if it was only 6 yellow instead of 8, Miles would basically become a slightly faster Iron Man with less AoE but no self-stun

this all assumes they get matched, which is no guarantee. that's like directly comparing damage on trap abilities to straight damage abilities which is guaranteed. to me his yellow is nice but pretty unreliable and somewhat expensive for my actual returns (not potential returns) - mine is at 4 covers. it does fuel his purple if you can get enough there or it can really slash Gwen's cost. wish there wasn't so much overlap between those 2.

True but you also have to assume it impacts the webs from any other abilities, both friend and foe, so it also counters against other web users.
Not that those are popular, but ya never know what might come up.

Polares

Blahahah wrote:

TxMoose wrote:

Blahahah wrote:

The yellow's main benefit is how it gives Miles the ability to generate up to 3 different colors when webs are matched.
That's affected into the cost a bit. At 5 yellow you're effectively getting 12 AP, albeit spread evenly over 3 colors, 4 of which will be going into purple. It also augments your other ability, hide and seek, by giving you about 15 more AP (again spread over 3 colors).

Like if it was only 6 yellow instead of 8, Miles would basically become a slightly faster Iron Man with less AoE but no self-stun

this all assumes they get matched, which is no guarantee. that's like directly comparing damage on trap abilities to straight damage abilities which is guaranteed. to me his yellow is nice but pretty unreliable and somewhat expensive for my actual returns (not potential returns) - mine is at 4 covers. it does fuel his purple if you can get enough there or it can really slash Gwen's cost. wish there wasn't so much overlap between those 2.

True but you also have to assume it impacts the webs from any other abilities, both friend and foe, so it also counters against other web users.
Not that those are popular, but ya never know what might come up.

But the cost of the passive should NEVER affect the cost of the active. They are completely independent. The power needs to be balanced, but the cost of the active should not be affected by the passive.

And I don't think yellow at 6Ap would make him OP, he would be better, but not OP at all. As TxMoose pointed, you still need to match the tiles, and you just get 1AP in every color for every match (not for every tile matched !!!), so you are still much slower than cylops or IMHB getting the extra AP (you need 6 matches to get 6 extra purple AP).

Blahahah

Polares wrote:

Blahahah wrote:

TxMoose wrote:

Blahahah wrote:

The yellow's main benefit is how it gives Miles the ability to generate up to 3 different colors when webs are matched.
That's affected into the cost a bit. At 5 yellow you're effectively getting 12 AP, albeit spread evenly over 3 colors, 4 of which will be going into purple. It also augments your other ability, hide and seek, by giving you about 15 more AP (again spread over 3 colors).

Like if it was only 6 yellow instead of 8, Miles would basically become a slightly faster Iron Man with less AoE but no self-stun

this all assumes they get matched, which is no guarantee. that's like directly comparing damage on trap abilities to straight damage abilities which is guaranteed. to me his yellow is nice but pretty unreliable and somewhat expensive for my actual returns (not potential returns) - mine is at 4 covers. it does fuel his purple if you can get enough there or it can really slash Gwen's cost. wish there wasn't so much overlap between those 2.

True but you also have to assume it impacts the webs from any other abilities, both friend and foe, so it also counters against other web users.
Not that those are popular, but ya never know what might come up.

But the cost of the passive should NEVER affect the cost of the active. They are completely independent. The power needs to be balanced, but the cost of the active should not be affected by the passive.

And I don't think yellow at 6Ap would make him OP, he would be better, but not OP at all. As TxMoose pointed, you still need to match the tiles, and you just get 1AP in every color for every match (not for every tile matched !!!), so you are still much slower than cylops or IMHB getting the extra AP (you need 6 matches to get 6 extra purple AP).

Assuming that the web tiles aren't both on one color, perhaps, but at 6AP for yellow the ability doubles your AP totals and redistributes it. Cyclops can have his matched away and it only affects one color for I believe it was 4ap and only what is labeled your "strongest color" and IMHB accelerates his own red but at the cost of a haughty 11 black. Even IM40, considered one of the best battery characters available, will give you the same amount of colors (swapping green for more purple) after 2 turns per tile with there being the risk of your CD tiles being matched, and he doesn't have the utility of being invisible or reaping extra damage from doing it.

Not to mention firing this off right before surprise tacks on another 2300 or so damage on top of the 5000, and it allows him to accelerate blue, a color which, barring ice man, isn't a color that can be brought about very quickly. The issue is you guys are making the assumption that the tiles will simply be matched around, which yes is possible, but that can be said of almost anything. It's not meant to be bursty AP gain, but making it only 6 yellow wouldn't just make him absurd as a battery and burst character, it would also make Gwen an issue. 6 yellow AP for a 4 AP discount on her 9k burst red, bringing it down to 8? Also with every match, if matches are made, it doesn't force her to slow down any.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be preferred, but I doubt 8AP is an arbitrary number in this instance. After quality testing, I don't doubt they found 6AP to simply be too small of a cost for the effect it gives.

Polares

Blahahah wrote:

Assuming that the web tiles aren't both on one color, perhaps, but at 6AP for yellow the ability doubles your AP totals and redistributes it. Cyclops can have his matched away and it only affects one color for I believe it was 4ap and only what is labeled your "strongest color" and IMHB accelerates his own red but at the cost of a haughty 11 black. Even IM40, considered one of the best battery characters available, will give you the same amount of colors (swapping green for more purple) after 2 turns per tile with there being the risk of your CD tiles being matched, and he doesn't have the utility of being invisible or reaping extra damage from doing it.

Not to mention firing this off right before surprise tacks on another 2300 or so damage on top of the 5000, and it allows him to accelerate blue, a color which, barring ice man, isn't a color that can be brought about very quickly. The issue is you guys are making the assumption that the tiles will simply be matched around, which yes is possible, but that can be said of almost anything. It's not meant to be bursty AP gain, but making it only 6 yellow wouldn't just make him absurd as a battery and burst character, it would also make Gwen an issue. 6 yellow AP for a 4 AP discount on her 9k burst red, bringing it down to 8? Also with every match, if matches are made, it doesn't force her to slow down any.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be preferred, but I doubt 8AP is an arbitrary number in this instance. After quality testing, I don't doubt they found 6AP to simply be too small of a cost for the effect it gives.

One purple cast for 6 AP, puts 5 web tiles and makes him invisible, one yellow for 8AP puts just 4 web tiles. Yes yellow can be double casted, and purple can't. But just one purple and Gwen red costs 7 red AP, which I think invalidates completely what you were saying about Gwen and yellow at 6 AP And if you want the self acceleration you need to match the tiles, so the effect of purple is less strong, etc, etc. So it is balanced because if you want one effect you can't have the other one.

I think yellow is overpriced, not because the self acceleration (I am telling you, he is not that fast, any match just gives you 1 AP in each of the colors), but because of purple damage. Maybe they should raise the base lower the damage x tile, and make yellow cheaper.

Blahahah

Polares wrote:

Blahahah wrote:

Assuming that the web tiles aren't both on one color, perhaps, but at 6AP for yellow the ability doubles your AP totals and redistributes it. Cyclops can have his matched away and it only affects one color for I believe it was 4ap and only what is labeled your "strongest color" and IMHB accelerates his own red but at the cost of a haughty 11 black. Even IM40, considered one of the best battery characters available, will give you the same amount of colors (swapping green for more purple) after 2 turns per tile with there being the risk of your CD tiles being matched, and he doesn't have the utility of being invisible or reaping extra damage from doing it.

Not to mention firing this off right before surprise tacks on another 2300 or so damage on top of the 5000, and it allows him to accelerate blue, a color which, barring ice man, isn't a color that can be brought about very quickly. The issue is you guys are making the assumption that the tiles will simply be matched around, which yes is possible, but that can be said of almost anything. It's not meant to be bursty AP gain, but making it only 6 yellow wouldn't just make him absurd as a battery and burst character, it would also make Gwen an issue. 6 yellow AP for a 4 AP discount on her 9k burst red, bringing it down to 8? Also with every match, if matches are made, it doesn't force her to slow down any.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be preferred, but I doubt 8AP is an arbitrary number in this instance. After quality testing, I don't doubt they found 6AP to simply be too small of a cost for the effect it gives.

One purple cast for 6 AP, puts 5 web tiles and makes him invisible, one yellow for 8AP puts just 4 web tiles. Yes yellow can be double casted, and purple can't. But just one purple and Gwen red costs 7 red AP, which I think invalidates completely what you were saying about Gwen and yellow at 6 AP And if you want the self acceleration you need to match the tiles, so the effect of purple is less strong, etc, etc. So it is balanced because if you want one effect you can't have the other one.

I think yellow is overpriced, not because the self acceleration (I am telling you, he is not that fast, any match just gives you 1 AP in each of the colors), but because of purple damage. Maybe they should raise the base lower the damage x tile, and make yellow cheaper.

Yes, but 2 casts of purple costs 14 and still only gives 5 web tiles. 2 casts of yellow gives 8.

Polares

Blahahah wrote:

Polares wrote:

Blahahah wrote:

Assuming that the web tiles aren't both on one color, perhaps, but at 6AP for yellow the ability doubles your AP totals and redistributes it. Cyclops can have his matched away and it only affects one color for I believe it was 4ap and only what is labeled your "strongest color" and IMHB accelerates his own red but at the cost of a haughty 11 black. Even IM40, considered one of the best battery characters available, will give you the same amount of colors (swapping green for more purple) after 2 turns per tile with there being the risk of your CD tiles being matched, and he doesn't have the utility of being invisible or reaping extra damage from doing it.

Not to mention firing this off right before surprise tacks on another 2300 or so damage on top of the 5000, and it allows him to accelerate blue, a color which, barring ice man, isn't a color that can be brought about very quickly. The issue is you guys are making the assumption that the tiles will simply be matched around, which yes is possible, but that can be said of almost anything. It's not meant to be bursty AP gain, but making it only 6 yellow wouldn't just make him absurd as a battery and burst character, it would also make Gwen an issue. 6 yellow AP for a 4 AP discount on her 9k burst red, bringing it down to 8? Also with every match, if matches are made, it doesn't force her to slow down any.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be preferred, but I doubt 8AP is an arbitrary number in this instance. After quality testing, I don't doubt they found 6AP to simply be too small of a cost for the effect it gives.

One purple cast for 6 AP, puts 5 web tiles and makes him invisible, one yellow for 8AP puts just 4 web tiles. Yes yellow can be double casted, and purple can't. But just one purple and Gwen red costs 7 red AP, which I think invalidates completely what you were saying about Gwen and yellow at 6 AP :P And if you want the self acceleration you need to match the tiles, so the effect of purple is less strong, etc, etc. So it is balanced because if you want one effect you can't have the other one.

I think yellow is overpriced, not because the self acceleration (I am telling you, he is not that fast, any match just gives you 1 AP in each of the colors), but because of purple damage. Maybe they should raise the base lower the damage x tile, and make yellow cheaper.

Yes, but 2 casts of purple costs 14 and still only gives 5 web tiles. 2 casts of yellow gives 8.

Yeah I already pointed out that, yellow can be double casted. But to double cast you would need 12 yellow AP, and then 14 purple AP to fire the purple damage ability with all the web tiles, so it is A LOT of AP just to kill one guy. Then you need to get 14 purple AP again if you want to fire it again. So I don't think even in that case this is OP at all. And regarding the extra AP, as I said before, you just get 1AP of each color for every match, so it is not that fast, even when the board is full of web tiles. In the best scenario it is just as fast as Hood, and Hood is better because he steals the AP from the enemy, so it would be worse than a 3* ability, and this is a 4* ability, so it should be better.

I don't know If somebody has pointed it out, but there is also a bug with the invis tile. Sometimes it tries to put the invis tile in a newly created purple web tile, and then it fails and you don't become invisible :S :S :S