A scaling experiment: 5* panic

OneLastGambit
OneLastGambit Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
edited December 2015 in MPQ General Discussion
OK I know I'm not the first person to experiment with scaling issues in PVE due to 5* characters but here's what I have found. Prior to the Hulk PVE I had noticed my scaling going up and down so decided to track the maximum levels I faced during these PVE's to see what happens. NOTE: My data is incomplete but I will provide what I have seen.

Growth Industry
Average roster level - 87.3
Max Active character - 127 (Kingpin)
Max unused Character - 270 (OML)

Max level of enemies faced - 241
Gauntlet
Average roster level - 87.5
Max Active - 127 (Kingpin)
Max unused - 270 (OML)

Max Level of enemy faced - 232
Heart of Darkness
Average roster level - 88.3
Max Active - 127 (Kingpin,LCap)
Max unused - 270 (OML)

Max enemy level - 165
Meet Rocket and Groot
Average roster level - 88.3
Max active - 127 (Kingpin, LCap)
Max unused - 270 (OML)

Max enemy level - 263
Amadeus Inferno
Average roster level - 88.5
Max Active - 270 (OML)

Max enemy level - 223
Oscorp Heroic
Average roster level - 88.6
Max active - 127 (Lcap, Kingpin)

Max enemy - 291
Hulk
Average roster level - 88
Max active - 127 (Kingpin, LCap, Hood)
Max unused - 270 (OML)

Max enemy - 273
Venom Heroic
Average roster level - 91.2
Max active - 270 (OML)

Max enemy - 201


Make of it what you will, that scaling seems completely random to me, have no idea how scaling works and don't think I ever will.

One thing you can see though... the OML I have did not affect scaling when used or not. I also have a 1 cover SS on my roster that was unused.

Comments

  • franckynight
    franckynight Posts: 582 Critical Contributor
    Mine is so simple.. 1st venom heroic clear of first sub . 3 hard nodes.. 395/395/395.. Nuff said
  • Malcrof
    Malcrof Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards
    franckynight wrote:
    Mine is so simple.. 1st venom heroic clear of first sub . 3 hard nodes.. 395/395/395.. Nuff said

    what levels are your 5*s, i have all 3 of them, and 3 max 4*s, and none of my hard nodes topped 200
  • bobbyfish
    bobbyfish Posts: 299
    I've had Phoenix in my roster for 5 days now and I've not noticed any difference yet. The rest of my roster is 166 and lower. Currently on Venom hard nodes are still sat below lvl 200. I didn't play Thick as Thieves very much, so that may have affected things.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    franckynight wrote:
    Mine is so simple.. 1st venom heroic clear of first sub . 3 hard nodes.. 395/395/395.. Nuff said
    Can we please put the "scaling looks at your _useable_ chars" urban myth that is going around to bed?
    Obviously this is not the case with 5*s being locked out of the heroic.

    My hardest nodes are 218 - 230 - 264, with 4 maxed 4* chars (that I can't use).

    So it's pretty obvious that scaling in heroics looks at your whole roster, regardless of whether the chars are locked out or not.
    Which I've been saying for 18 months.
  • franckynight
    franckynight Posts: 582 Critical Contributor
    I have a maxed SS and all 4* maxed except chulk.. When i compare my scaling with ppl with 4* maxed there is a huge gap between our scaling.. My scaling started to skyrocket once i began to level my SS (leveled him up to 7 covers level 360).. Then no turning back (even if i have only 2 oml and one phoenix cover).. So i can confirme that scaling is roster dependant and that 5* increase it into insane proportions
  • Malcrof
    Malcrof Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards
    franckynight wrote:
    I have a maxed SS and all 4* maxed except chulk.. When i compare my scaling with ppl with 4* maxed there is a huge gap between our scaling.. My scaling started to skyrocket once i began to level my SS (leveled him up to 7 covers level 360).. Then no turning back (even if i have only 2 oml and one phoenix cover).. So i can confirme that scaling is roster dependant and that 5* increase it into insane proportions

    ^ this is why i am not taking a 5* over 350 (boosted 4* range) until i have 2 or more fully covered. Appreciate the info! It is genuinely helpful.
  • OneLastGambit
    OneLastGambit Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think the point I was making is that 5* characters were not responsible for my scaling. Nor was my average roster level, since my average level went up my enemy levels have gone down.

    Interestingly my drop in enemy levels has coincided with lower performance in PVE. I skipped a few and finished poorly in 2 events due to lack of interest and now in this event my scaling decreased.

    I think (only a hypothesis) that previous performance affects scaling more than your character levels
  • Jack0fAllGames
    Jack0fAllGames Posts: 65 Match Maker
    edited December 2015
    Not all enemy teams are created equal, and thus not all base scaling will be the same even for the same roster.
    You can't do a straight up comparison of the hardest nodes from two different events.
    The only (possibly) true comparison is to look at two runs of the same event with the same enemies.

    Example:

    Venom and Yelena are fairly "easy" Dark Avengers. So nodes that feature them will usually be higher base level than ones with Ares and Ragnarok.

    The presence of goons (especially an all-goon team) also tends to raise the levels of a node.
  • stochasticism
    stochasticism Posts: 1,181 Chairperson of the Boards
    OneLastGambit wrote:
    OK I know I'm not the first person to experiment with scaling issues in PVE due to 5* characters but here's what I have found. Prior to the Hulk PVE I had noticed my scaling going up and down so decided to track the maximum levels I faced during these PVE's to see what happens. NOTE: My data is incomplete but I will provide what I have seen.

    Growth Industry
    Average roster level - 87.3
    Max Active character - 127 (Kingpin)
    Max unused Character - 270 (OML)

    Max level of enemies faced - 241
    Gauntlet
    Average roster level - 87.5
    Max Active - 127 (Kingpin)
    Max unused - 270 (OML)

    Max Level of enemy faced - 232
    Heart of Darkness
    Average roster level - 88.3
    Max Active - 127 (Kingpin,LCap)
    Max unused - 270 (OML)

    Max enemy level - 165
    Meet Rocket and Groot
    Average roster level - 88.3
    Max active - 127 (Kingpin, LCap)
    Max unused - 270 (OML)

    Max enemy level - 263
    Amadeus Inferno
    Average roster level - 88.5
    Max Active - 270 (OML)

    Max enemy level - 223
    Oscorp Heroic
    Average roster level - 88.6
    Max active - 127 (Lcap, Kingpin)

    Max enemy - 291
    Hulk
    Average roster level - 88
    Max active - 127 (Kingpin, LCap, Hood)
    Max unused - 270 (OML)

    Max enemy - 273
    Venom Heroic
    Average roster level - 91.2
    Max active - 270 (OML)

    Max enemy - 201


    Make of it what you will, that scaling seems completely random to me, have no idea how scaling works and don't think I ever will.

    One thing you can see though... the OML I have did not affect scaling when used or not. I also have a 1 cover SS on my roster that was unused.

    I don't see how you can say this is random. The first time you used a 5* in a PvE the scaling in the very next event shot up by almost 30 levels above the max it had been before (and almost 50 levels higher than the average) and has been declining after you stopped using him. I wouldn't be surprised to see your scaling go much higher after this PvE since you used him again. Also, this doesn't give us the full picture since we don't have numbers from before you rostered your 5*. It could very well be that rostering OML caused your PvE levels to jump by 40 and we wouldn't know it from this data.
  • WelcomeDeath
    WelcomeDeath Posts: 349 Mover and Shaker
    Scaling starts with roster base, then adjusts during that pve depending on how you fare vs ai opponents. Wipe and it will stay the same. Take lots of damage? Stays the same. Manage to beat a node and lose little/no health? Goes up.
    It will also continue to go up the more you grind, especially if you lose little health with each clear, so you have to take number of nodes played into account and times played as well. Lastly, the more you beat "hard" nodes, the higher your scaling.
  • TLCstormz
    TLCstormz Posts: 1,668
    I have not played a PvE or a PvP in a few months now.

    The only thing that I play is Deadpool daily and the lightning round seed teams.

    I popped into the Amadeus event just to see if there was anything that I was interested in, and after the second my difficulty is a 320 and above.

    No one in my roster is above level 95, other than the Silver Surfer cover and the Old Man Logan cover that I have.

    How does that make any sense, whatsoever?
  • OneLastGambit
    OneLastGambit Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    stochasticism wrote:
    OneLastGambit wrote:
    OK I know I'm not the first person to experiment with scaling issues in PVE due to 5* characters but here's what I have found. Prior to the Hulk PVE I had noticed my scaling going up and down so decided to track the maximum levels I faced during these PVE's to see what happens. NOTE: My data is incomplete but I will provide what I have seen.

    Growth Industry
    Average roster level - 87.3
    Max Active character - 127 (Kingpin)
    Max unused Character - 270 (OML)

    Max level of enemies faced - 241
    Gauntlet
    Average roster level - 87.5
    Max Active - 127 (Kingpin)
    Max unused - 270 (OML)

    Max Level of enemy faced - 232
    Heart of Darkness
    Average roster level - 88.3
    Max Active - 127 (Kingpin,LCap)
    Max unused - 270 (OML)

    Max enemy level - 165
    Meet Rocket and Groot
    Average roster level - 88.3
    Max active - 127 (Kingpin, LCap)
    Max unused - 270 (OML)

    Max enemy level - 263
    Amadeus Inferno
    Average roster level - 88.5
    Max Active - 270 (OML)

    Max enemy level - 223
    Oscorp Heroic
    Average roster level - 88.6
    Max active - 127 (Lcap, Kingpin)

    Max enemy - 291
    Hulk
    Average roster level - 88
    Max active - 127 (Kingpin, LCap, Hood)
    Max unused - 270 (OML)

    Max enemy - 273
    Venom Heroic
    Average roster level - 91.2
    Max active - 270 (OML)

    Max enemy - 201


    Make of it what you will, that scaling seems completely random to me, have no idea how scaling works and don't think I ever will.

    One thing you can see though... the OML I have did not affect scaling when used or not. I also have a 1 cover SS on my roster that was unused.

    I don't see how you can say this is random. The first time you used a 5* in a PvE the scaling in the very next event shot up by almost 30 levels above the max it had been before (and almost 50 levels higher than the average) and has been declining after you stopped using him. I wouldn't be surprised to see your scaling go much higher after this PvE since you used him again. Also, this doesn't give us the full picture since we don't have numbers from before you rostered your 5*. It could very well be that rostering OML caused your PvE levels to jump by 40 and we wouldn't know it from this data.


    I only recently started the current Iso brotherhood event so couldn't give data for it until now...

    Iso-8
    Average roster level 91.7
    Max Active - 127 (LCap<Boosted>, KP, Hulk)
    Max inactive - 270 (OML)

    Max enemy level - 214

    So using OML in the previous event has not affected this event too much yet and you could argue that my performance in the event is what has increased my scaling, maybe the next sub will be different but presently this is how it stands.

    It's my personal opinion that I think scaling is based mostly on performance, I know that's not what devs say but what they say also doesn't seem to make sense according to all the people saying 1 5* character has ruined their scaling.

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