Creature Order

Unknown

Anyone know what the logic behind the creature order in the game is? This is particularly related to how they shuffle when you play new creatures. It seems totally random and frankly, it's really annoying when you are running equipments.

For example, I was just playing a match and I played Llanowar Empath first. The next two cards I played were Brawler's Plate and Veteran's Sidearm which together give +3/+3 and Berserker. I then play Gold-Forged Sentinel, who enters the battlefield in the first slot, bumping Empath back to the second slot. Naturally Sentinel now has the +3/+3 and Berserker from the Plate and Sidearm so now I suddenly lose 3 damage this turn as Empath only swings in for 2. On my next turn, I drop a Bounding Krasis. When Krasis enters the battlefield, Sentinel moves from 1st to 3rd, Empath goes from 2nd back to first, and Krasis enters at 2. In this scenario, all the shuffling cost me only 3 damage so while it wasn't that big of a deal, I did end up missing on one of the Objectives as it took me an extra turn to end-game. However, I pretty consistently have creatures outright die because of this because Brawler's Plate gives Berserker so often times a new creature comes in, then the -3/-3 the creature in the first position gets after being moved from having Plate and Sidearm unequip takes their toughness to 0 and they die for no reason other than...wonky logic?

Coppertouret

I was wondering this myself. Dual colored creatures always get bumped out of the 1st slot where it is random for single colors. If I have one of each and summon another single color, it will either go to 1 or 2 without pattern. Same if I summon a single color if there are 3 creatures out, one being dc'd, the new creature never takes the place of the substitute, but rather typically takes the second slot. Dc'd in that situation goes 3rd. It's pretty upsetting sometimes

BlackSheep101

I'm glad I'm not the only one wondering this. I sincerely hope there is in fact a system governing this. Once it's well known, it would add some complexity to creature cards.

If it is random, I'll be very disappointed.

Queso

The only thing (I think) I know is that defender/reach creatures seem to always go in the front (bottom) slot. After that... no idea.

Definitely have had the OP's problem of creatures randomly dying due to equipment switching to a different character.

Unknown

Queso wrote:

The only thing (I think) I know is that defender/reach creatures seem to always go in the front (bottom) slot. After that... no idea.

Definitely have had the OP's problem of creatures randomly dying due to equipment switching to a different character.

I figure I should highlight that because it is what I have seen as well. Vigilance also will take the bottom spot over a non-vigilance creature but I would assume defender would slot in the first slot over a vigilance creature.

madsalad

The only thing I've seen about a creature "randomly" dying due to an equipment switching would be when a support gets destroyed and the creature's health goes below zero once the support is removed. For instance, a support that gives a dood +3/+3 and that dude has taken some damage and he is a 4/1. Once that support gets destroyed, the creature dies because he is no longer buffed. This also happens if you have a support that buffs the dood in the first slot and then someone new take the first slot and moves the original guy up. If he was under the threshold, he dies.

Unknown

madsalad wrote:

The only thing I've seen about a creature "randomly" dying due to an equipment switching would be when a support gets destroyed and the creature's health goes below zero once the support is removed. For instance, a support that gives a dood +3/+3 and that dude has taken some damage and he is a 4/1. Once that support gets destroyed, the creature dies because he is no longer buffed. This also happens if you have a support that buffs the dood in the first slot and then someone new take the first slot and moves the original guy up. If he was under the threshold, he dies.

The bolded is the main reason I created this thread as there seems to be no rhyme or reason behind what determines the order of the creatures on the battlefield when you play them.

Unknown

Bumping this as this is easily my single biggest annoyance in the game right now. So many Objectives that I had to redo because of this 'logic'

Unknown

I just lost a battle because of this. Was barely alive, but so was the opponent. Had exactly enough damage on the table to kill her, that is until the new creature played took the first slot, placing the +3/+3 boost on a now-disabled creature, leaving the enemy alive to kill me on her turn with her 7/7 flyer. This NEEDS to either get fixed or at least explained.

EDIT: To add to the confusion, the creature who took the first slot was a Llanowar Empath, who doesn't have Defend or Vigilance, and if fact has no traits at all, just an ability that adds 3 mana to the next creature in the queue.

madsalad

TheLivingNick wrote:

I just lost a battle because of this. Was barely alive, but so was the opponent. Had exactly enough damage on the table to kill her, that is until the new creature played took the first slot, placing the +3/+3 boost on a now-disabled creature, leaving the enemy alive to kill me on her turn with her 7/7 flyer. This NEEDS to either get fixed or at least explained.

EDIT: To add to the confusion, the creature who took the first slot was a Llanowar Empath, who doesn't have Defend or Vigilance, and if fact has no traits at all, just an ability that adds 3 mana to the next creature in the queue.

Honestly, we would need more information regarding the board status, what other critters you had, who had been your first place prior to this, etc...

I believe the Empath is a 2/2, right? If your first slot prior to that was a vanilla 1/1, then the Empath would take first position because it is a vanilla 2/2. From what I can understand...

If all of your dudes are vanilla, the dude with the highest toughness moves to first position (but it may be power. or it may be his coolness level or midiclorians. I'm not sure).

If you have vanilla dudes, and you play someone with defend, the defender moves to first position.

If you have a vanilla dudes and play someone with Vigilance, the Vigilance dude moves to first position.

If you have a vanilla dude and a Vigilance dude, and play a defender, I believe the Defender takes first position over the Vigilance dude, despite the fact that they have similar ability in regard to blocking. (I'm not 100% on this one).

I believe folks with Reach take the first position over a Defender or Vigilance.

So, I guess Reach > Defender > Vigilance ?

I'm not sure if Flying, Renowned, First Strike, Haste, Double Strike, Death Touch, fall into any categories that put them in first position over the above listed powers.

Unknown

madsalad wrote:

TheLivingNick wrote:

I just lost a battle because of this. Was barely alive, but so was the opponent. Had exactly enough damage on the table to kill her, that is until the new creature played took the first slot, placing the +3/+3 boost on a now-disabled creature, leaving the enemy alive to kill me on her turn with her 7/7 flyer. This NEEDS to either get fixed or at least explained.

EDIT: To add to the confusion, the creature who took the first slot was a Llanowar Empath, who doesn't have Defend or Vigilance, and if fact has no traits at all, just an ability that adds 3 mana to the next creature in the queue.

Honestly, we would need more information regarding the board status, what other critters you had, who had been your first place prior to this, etc...

I believe the Empath is a 2/2, right? If your first slot prior to that was a vanilla 1/1, then the Empath would take first position because it is a vanilla 2/2. From what I can understand...

If all of your dudes are vanilla, the dude with the highest toughness moves to first position (but it may be power. or it may be his coolness level or midiclorians. I'm not sure).

If you have vanilla dudes, and you play someone with defend, the defender moves to first position.

If you have a vanilla dudes and play someone with Vigilance, the Vigilance dude moves to first position.

If you have a vanilla dude and a Vigilance dude, and play a defender, I believe the Defender takes first position over the Vigilance dude, despite the fact that they have similar ability in regard to blocking. (I'm not 100% on this one).

I believe folks with Reach take the first position over a Defender or Vigilance.

So, I guess Reach > Defender > Vigilance ?

I'm not sure if Flying, Renowned, First Strike, Haste, Double Strike, Death Touch, fall into any categories that put them in first position over the above listed powers.

The thing is, just look at my original post where it was Empath, Gold-Forged Sentinel, and Bounding Krasis. Two have ETB effects, one has flying yet the board completely shuffled when each one came into play, with Empath moving from 1 to 2 back to 1 (when it was decidedly the weakest and lowest costing creature I had out). While I agree there is logic involving guys with Defender/Vigilance/Reach going to the first slot, beyond that there seems to be none.

Queso

madsalad wrote:

So, I guess Reach > Defender > Vigilance ?

My experience tells me that Defender (Maritime Guard) will always take over the front slot from a creature with Reach (Scrapskin Drake)

void

This is by and far my biggest peeve with the game right now. I shouldn't have to search the forums for player theories regarding how creature order works. Token spawning minions seem to throw another spanner in the works.

GonzoElk

To build on the OP, how does the game determine when to place a newly cast creature in position 1? I've had this bump a berserker off my supports and subsequently die. Any understanding you can share is greatly appreciated!

Unknown

The creature ordering logic in this game is nebulous, but it's there. I don't know about anything about Gold creatures putting themselves over other creatures, but I can sort of discern some of the things that happen. The basics are the following

1.) Without any abilities, creatures go in the order they are played

2.) Defenders (With or Without Reach) go first in order of arrival, followed by creatures with Vigilance. Then other creatures are placed after them. Berserkers are put last in the formation. Creatures with both Defender and Berserker still go first in the formation

3.) The formation changes order to fit this criteria every time you play a creature

That bolded part is important, because that's what can cause a lot of hijinxes with Support cards, specially Brawler's Plate and Call of the Full Moon, which gives creatures Berserker. When a creature that didn't have an ability that affects its positioning gains it, it doesn't move UNTIL another creature enters the battlefield, which causes much bedlam from time to time. This is something that happened in a game and will work as a fine example

- I have Call of the Full Moon out and play a 2/1 Subterranean Goblin, it equips the Call of the Full Moon, giving it +3/+2, Berserker and Trample. It is the first (and only) creature on the formation

- I play a 2/2 Rune Servitor. Because the game sees that the Goblin has Berserker, it moves it to the back of the formation, putting the Rune Servitor first. Call of the Full Moon now gives the Runed Servitor the adequate stats

- I play a 3/1 Acolyte of the Inferno. Once again, the game realizes you have a Berserker first, so it moves the Rune Servitor to the back row. HOWEVER, because the Subterranean Goblin entered the field before the Acolyte of the Inferno, it is moved back to the front row again. The end result is a 5/3 werewolf Subterranean Goblin, a 3/1 Acolyte of the Inferno, and a 2/2 Runed Servitor in that order.

It seems the game uses some timestamps to track which creatures go first and which creatures to move. This can get sort of weird when you factor abilities like Sharp Eyes that grant creatures abilities at unorthodox times. When I have Mage-Ring Bully on me, I will run some tests to confirm this theory and see if these 3 precepts up there hold water; in theory. If you have a MRB out, play a spell/support, and then play a creature, then the MRB should move to the back row because it now has Berserker, then, next turn when you play another creature, it should move back first because it was the first creature on board. If someone could try out that sequence of actions for me I would be grateful