Panda's Planeswalker overview, and brief deckbuilding tips

Unknown

Hello!

After playing the entire day yesterday, I figured I could go and share my first impressions for each of the planeswalkers, and some brief deckbuilding tips for each. A note that most of the cards I'll review are common/uncommons - rares and mythics I'm pretty sure you can judge the usefulness of yourself, plus there isn't a point building a deck around them unless you are lucky enough to obtain them first.

Please note this is an overview of early game uncommon/common decks. With mythics and rares in mind, the relative power of these planeswalkers changes greatly.

In general, for early game I'd rank the planeswalkers as Chandra = Gideon > Jace > Nissa >>>>>> Liliana

With mythics/rares in mind, I'd rank the planeswalkers as Jace = Gideon >= Nissa > Chandra > Liliana

Having played a bit more while Jace's control is unparalleled...most of the time you don't need it. I actually end pvp matches with more health (or no damage) with chandra/gideon than Jace, simply because Jace can be screwed by good cascades while Chandra/Gideon have such good creature board domination that nothing can ever get through, period. Bottom line is, if pvp was realtime, I would play Jace over anything else, however, since the AI is so bad, Chandra/Gideon actually pull off faster wins because they don't waste time with lockdown.

Nissa
Nissa is everyone's first planeswalker, and while she starts off pretty terrible, she gets a significant bump later on. At rank 2 of Nature's Bounty, it turns from being fairly useless to being a very good way to pump out additional cards once you have further mana ramp. She is more about combos and mana ramp than big beefy creatures. However, green's general lack of board control means you're mostly just trying to get your stuff out before you die. Not my favorite, but not a bad planeswalker once you get past the first levels.

Notablely useful cards:

Creatures

• Outland colossus, if able to get a clean swing in is a 12/12 for 15 which is the most efficient power/cost ratio of any card.
• Conclave Naturalists - 11 for a 4/4 is already decent, add in support killing and it is one of the best Uncommons in the game
• Rhox Maulers - 11 for a 4/4 or 6/6 berserker, it is one of the few ways green can control the board.

Spells

• Titanic Growth - +4/+4 for 6 is insane, and a great use on your berserker creatures to let you mow through without taking real hp damage.
• Reclaim - Potentially amazing card. The cheapest creature you have in your deck is either Caustic Caterpillar (3 for a 1/1) or better yet Llanowar Empath (7 for a 2/2 + 3 mana). A return of 6 mana, not to mention comboing ability. A great combo especially with Nissa's card draw ability, you can swing 17/18 mana just from abilities - remember you can turn off autocast! Use it well for combos, esp against Chandra's DD creature killing, and certain story fights as well. Also works off of tokens.
• Aerial Volley/Mantle of Webs - sideboard card for dealing with flyer decks (Gideon angels perhaps, and certain storyline fights)

Support

• Nissa's Pilgrimage - pretty decent, and cheap.
• Mage Ring network/Meteorite - these pay for themselves in 7/8 turns, so they're an investment in the future if you already have strong board presence.

Gideon

Oh my, soldiers and angels galore! There are no white weenies here. Gideon is much like Nissa in that his early levels are terrible, but his later permanent stat bonuses to his creatures for ONLY 3, 6 mana are insane. Once he gets going he is unstoppable, and with angels his creatures are pretty much unblockable as well. A hard counter to Chandra's DD, his creatures simply have too much hp and resilience with his abilities to die efficiently. He is a great late hero with some amazing creatures.

Creatures

• Iroas's Champion - possibly the best uncommon in the game, this is a 4/4 berserk double striker that just by herself spells complete board domination. He shares it with Chandra, and if you can get this card out by turn 3 you've basically won the game. Double strike means enemy creatures cannot retaliate if she hits first - this means straight out of the board she will kill any X/4 creature. Not only that...but she does double damage to planeswalkers. Now you see why she's worth 19 mana? With gideon's buffs she is completely unstoppable.
• Archangel of Tithes - I know I mentioned I wouldn't rate mythics, but just pure stat wise a 7/9 flyer for 18 is insane, plus her passive...jeez. Talk about power creep. Have gideon keep pumping her up and only Liliana has a way of getting rid of her.
• Blessed Spirits - 13 for a 4/4 is very bad efficiency, but do note they are flying, and casting support gives them +2/+2 permanently. While this isn't necessarily that good, it is decent in a Gideon flyer deck. Combos well with...
• Totem-Guide Hartebeest - for obvious reasons. Both are fairly expensive, and Hartebeest really needs to have defender or something to make up for its 11 cost. Oh well, if you really have nothing better going for you, this combo isn't the worst you can come up with.
• Akroan Jailer - Cost is high for a 1/1, but its ability to disable may buy you some time...plus it combos with...

Spells

• Swift Reckoning - one of your only creature wipe cards, it is FANTASTIC. 6 for an instakill, regardless of flying, toughness, etc, this should be in every white deck. This really should be rare or mythic.

Support

• Suppression Bonds - this is a rare card, but it is white's version of Claustrophobia (blue). Since it is amazing, this is another staple of any white deck.
• Jayemdae's Tome - this is a colorless support, but it works well if you've already got your big things on the board, and you need a cheap support to combo spirits with, or you simply need more options (like more chances to get that ridiculous Swift Reckoning out. Plus it can "tank" support destruction like Nissa's conclave or Chandra's shatter/demolish.

All in all Gideon's is a powerhouse, and has amazing board control despite being white. Some of the scariest flying creatures, coupled with his insane planeswalker skills make him generally speaking the hardest opponent for my decks (I mostly play chandra and liliana).


Jace
If you were expecting the board control traumatizing blue jerkhole of magic, you'll be sorely disappointed until you get some rares/mythics, at which point Jace is hands down the best planeswalker in the game. As far as I can tell Jace is all about locking things down...temporarily, and then being unable to retaliate with any useful things of his own early game. However, later on, he has complete board domination with bounces and mana drain, and so only requires 1 or 2 creatures to do the dirty work while he keeps the opponent permanently locked down.

Confusion is a pretty bad ability that buys you some time. It can also help them die against your walls, however, bear in mind only creatures with at least 1 power will attack.

Ingenuity - is a fantastic ability that lets you recast your last spell with pretty much no cost. Use it with bounces to dominate the board. Remember a bounced token is destroyed forever, bounced "double stack" creatures only return 1 creature, and if they have 6 cards in their hand the creature is permanently destroyed instead.

Mind sculpt - I haven't gotten him this far to use it, but as far as ultimates go...it might be useful to prevent them from casting a big thing, but by the time you can use it you're already either going to be dominating or dead. Save your mana for Ingenuity instead.

Creatures

• Whirler Rogue - a 4/4 and a 2/2 flyer for 15 is a very good deal, plus unblockable for your big fatties.
• Separatists Voidmage - this is very good against any creatures that are either 1) big fatties or 2) a giant token stack or 3) a multistack/lots of +power. Good against Gideon's buffs and beefy creatures, but remember you're still summoning a 2/2 for 10 mana...not exactly the best of plays for yourself either. Make sure it is worth the mana for you.
• Screeching Skaab - Good as the last card in your hand. Terrible otherwise.

Spells

• Hydrolash - potentially useful, but remember this is another stall. Don't put too many stalls in your deck.
• Anchor to the Aether - a much better card, it removes one big threat to their hand and also cantrips for another card. Also only 7 mana. Every blue deck should have this.
• Bone to Ash - useful only if the enemy deck has only huge fatties. Remember not to have too many stalls. That said, this is one of the better ones.
• Stratus Walk - actually very good. 3 mana for flying and a cantrip, it is actually cheaper to use this + a land creature than to pay the premium for summoning a similar flying creature.

Support

• Claustrophobia - disables first creature. A staple for any deck.
• Jace's Sanctum - this is rare, but it is crazy. Removes 3 mana from the opponent every turn. It pays for itself in just 2 turns. Fantastic if you can get your hands on it.
• Sphinx's Tutelage - now this is more like the blue we know. It is interesting especially if you have the cantrip cards like the spells I mentioned before. Remember costs stay forever - and isn't voided by the opponent having no mana on the card. Can potentially completely shut down an opponent with Jace's Sanctum.

Liliana

Oh boy, you might think, this is black which means creature destruction, life drain, ressing zombies...and you'd be right...sort of. Except all of that is really tedious and extremely mana inefficient. I gotta say Liliana might be decent, but she is a LOT of work to play, and you need a lot of good cards. Her starting deck is godawful. If you stick with her she is...decent. But very, very slow. One of the worst at low levels however, with abilities that don't really do much of anything. Everything costs WAY too much, and likely you'll die before you can even get a few creatures out.

Corrupt - this costs too much. Discards 1(or 2 cards - get this upgrade immediately) for the price of 1. Probably her best skill. Once you get going, and maybe if you have some form of card draw (Alhamarret's Archive, Demonic Pact comes to mind), you can completely prevent the opponent from casting any large mana abilities.

Grave Mist - this costs too much. 1 damage to all your creatures for 1, 2, or 3 damage to all opponent creatures. This is alright, but really if you're using this unless you've been saving your creatures (why?) the board wipe is unnecessary.

Raise Dead - this costs too much. See a trend here?

I gotta say despite trying to play this deck I don't have many good creatures for it. If someone has input on some wow creatures please let me know (uncommon/common only, maybe a rare!).

Creatures

• Blood Cursed Knight - this costs too much...but if you play the whole disable thing, is a good way of maintaining your health. Still a 5/4 for 17 is painful to bear.
• Catacomb Slug - 17 for a 2/6? What? This costs too much.
• Possessed Skaab - pretty expensive for a 4/3, but at least it lets you return one more super expensive creature...to your hand. Sigh.
• Shambling Ghoul - 6 for a 2/2...jesus christ. At least this is a zombie, so you can combo it with your res.
• Undead Servant - 12 for 2 2/2's...I guess you could do worse. At least these are all zombies too.
• Deadbridge Shaman - 8 for a 3/1, thank god we have at least something that is -sort- of mana efficient.
• Fleshbag Marauder - thank god! This card is fantastic even without any effect, a 5/3 for 10. With its effect however, it is a great way of removing creatures. Should be in every deck.

Black creatures are a huge disappointment

Spells

• Consecrated by Blood - this costs too much (more than a 3/3 or even 4/4 with flying would)..but it gives regenerate, which is nice. Decent on a creature with lifelink or can swing for a ton (or both!)
• Cruel Revival - a very hard to use spell, it requires 1) enemy has a nonzombie AND 2) you have a zombie (non token) that has died in the past. So...this being your only main removal spell, it is unusable unless you cast your terrible efficiency zombies, AND get them kiled, AND they're only returned to your hand. Sigh...
• Necromantic Summons - I am unsure whether it requires your opponent to have lost a creature or not, but if not, then this is a very good card. It is pretty good regardless, esp if you can ping one of your opponent's little creatures right after you lose a big one.
• Reave Soul - decent against decks that like to stack little creatures, or those with weak creatures with strong effects. Also good to combo with Necromantic Summons.

Support - I couldn't find any notable support cards.

Chandra

Chandra is out of the gate the best early-mid game planeswalker. She has the best board control in the game against small creatures and nonflyers, and her DD lets you pick off enemy threats. She scales badly however, and later on it takes more and more mana to get rid of enemy threats. Still, she is a powerful planeswalker and my personal favorite. She has a VERY strong (possibly strongest) uncommon/common deck, so if you're looking for a planeswalker that doesn't need much investment, look no further!

Flameshot - is very cheap, and a great way to finish a long fight. Save this until you're almost capped however, or about to win, because you need to save your mana for...

Scorching Strike - one of the best planeswalker abilities in the game, it is a creature target DD spell for 2/3/4 damage. 2 is too small to take care of threats, but 3 is just right - many creatures have 3 hp and are perfect targets for this.

Fireball - is pretty bad. Only useful if you forgot to use flameshot (don't forget to use flameshot...) and need to finish off the game.

Creatures

• Iroas's Champion - same as in Gideon's list, this is one of the best uncommons in the game and dominates the board for you.
• Thopter Engineer - a decent card for starters, 9 mana for a 3/3 and a 1/1 flyer is pretty efficient!
• Enthralling Victor - not bad! A mini Act of Treason coupled with a super efficient 8 mana 4/3 make it a staple "bang for your buck" creature.
• Volcanic Rambler - a 5/3 for only 8 mana, holy ****. It also destroys huge blocks, setting up new cascades for you and possible destroying enemy supports too. A fantastic card that should be in every deck.

Red has some amazing creatures, but its focus is in amazing...

Spells

• Exquisite Flamecraft - possibly the most broken rare spell, it does 6 damage for 6 mana. So efficient...and is the big brother of...
• Lightning Javelin - strictly worse than Exquisite Flamecraft, this is 3 damage for 6 mana, but it is your bread and butter DD spell until much later.
• Act of Treason - Enemy 10/10 flyer eating your face? No problem, spend 4 mana to get a swing with it too. A great answer to big creatures and fliers. Why waste mana killing them when you can swing with them yourself?
• Titan's Strength - use with Iroas's Champion to blow up X/7 creatures, or save it for a game ender and do 6 additional damage. Great card, very cheap.
• Infectious Bloodlust - +2/+1 and haste for only 6, its cheaper than some 2/2's without haste! Great way to beef up Iroas's Champion even more.
• Smash to Smithereens/Demolish - a good sideboard card for when the enemy has supports that need to die. Obviously Demolish is the better version, but also more uncommon.

Support

• Call of the Full Moon - this card, while expensive, is a great way to use your efficient creatures to your advantage. It grants +3/+2 and berserker, letting you clear the board efficiently. Not useful once you have Iroas's, as she has better berserker and you want her to take care of enemies while letting the rest of your big hitters go through and hit the planeswalker.

So that's it, let me know what you think, and what your experiences are!

Unknown

I've done a lot of playing wit Nissa and Jace. I stared Nissa because I'm a green Mage in mtg paper, but found that all her cards cost too much. I think they designed the green cards with using Nissa abilities in mind (the gain Mana abilities), but all that did was make you reliant on her ability to cast your underpowered creatures.

I've found Jace to be a powerhouse. His creatures have great stats at low costs and a lot of them are flying. His abilities make attacking favorable, and there are a lot of "drain Mana" cards as you've mentioned that straight luck your opponent out of the game. Green may have "fat monsters", but blue has multiple creatures that bounce, so you get utility AND a body. On top of that, if you have a SINGLE removal spell you can just cast it every turn using his 2nd ability. "Turn to frog" in particular is insane to recur.

From what I've seen of the cards I own (I've even spent a little $) Jace and Chandra seem best, with Gideon being ok and Lillian / Nissa being terrible. I haven't even faced anyone in pvp who used a deck other than Jace or Chandra so I think there's a real balance problem right now that will need to be adjusted. You can't have 1 color getting 6/6 for 10 that bounces another creature while another gets a 6/6 vanilla for 14 and expect people NOT to gravitate towards the cheaper and better cards.

Those are my observations so far.

Unknown

Psilence wrote:

I've done a lot of playing wit Nissa and Jace. I stared Nissa because I'm a green Mage in mtg paper, but found that all her cards cost too much. I think they designed the green cards with using Nissa abilities in mind (the gain Mana abilities), but all that did was make you reliant on her ability to cast your underpowered creatures.

I've found Jace to be a powerhouse. His creatures have great stats at low costs and a lot of them are flying. His abilities make attacking favorable, and there are a lot of "drain Mana" cards as you've mentioned that straight luck your opponent out of the game. Green may have "fat monsters", but blue has multiple creatures that bounce, so you get utility AND a body. On top of that, if you have a SINGLE removal spell you can just cast it every turn using his 2nd ability. "Turn to frog" in particular is insane to recur.

From what I've seen of the cards I own (I've even spent a little $) Jace and Chandra seem best, with Gideon being ok and Lillian / Nissa being terrible. I haven't even faced anyone in pvp who used a deck other than Jace or Chandra so I think there's a real balance problem right now that will need to be adjusted. You can't have 1 color getting 6/6 for 10 that bounces another creature while another gets a 6/6 vanilla for 14 and expect people NOT to gravitate towards the cheaper and better cards.

Those are my observations so far.

I am only running into Nissas right now. But I am happy to not be going up against Chandra and Jace. Those are my mains and they are so good. Chandra may be a bit better, since once she hits 14 you have face damage and removal.


Jace decks are very card reliant. Tower Geist is great along with Sanctum and Tutelage. Claustrophobia also helps a lot as well, and I like when the opponent plays a defender so I can use Jace to minus its attack and I get a free kill.

madsalad

Great write up Panda. I found this while searching for posts about Cruel Revival. That card makes me sad.

I have lvl 14 Nissa, Jace and Lilliana, which may have been a mistake to try to lvl equally as I'm getting higher in the story and some matchups are insane. I'm currently saving up for a big box purchase so grind, grind, grind.

I hope they institute some type of "dust" feature to allow you to destroy multiples of cards for runes, otherwise things are going to get stale.

Unknown

Yea I've gotten a few more cards and Jace is really coming into his own.

Remember though this writeup was for an introduction with uncommon cards (maybe 1 rare at best).

It seems pretty obvious but Jace's best stuff is all rares/mythics, and once you get those cards you can basically roll with whatever you want.

However chandra is simply strong straight out of the gate, able to roll through every storyline quest with just uncommons, which is why I rate her so highly.

I've gotten 3 mythics for Jace now and he's finally coming into his own. If you can really get a 6/6 bounce for 11 that is pretty broken and they need to work on balancing. At best that creature should cost at least 18 mana.

Interestingly Jace is probably the best counter to Chandra as well, with bounce and lockdown, as well as flying fatties which Chandra has no ability to deal with aside from just blowing up, which is inefficient. Jace's mana lockdown also works wonders if you can get them out early, and Chandra suffers from getting a bad starting hand - she really needs momentum to control the board and wipe the floor with people.

Liliana is bad. Nissa is salvageable with better creatures, but her creatures are very inefficient (liliana is even more inefficient).

I think you rate Gideon too lowly. He has some great effects and very good creatures, and his abilities get very good at rank 2/3.

BlackSheep101

I underrated Murder Investigation initially. Combined with Gideon's ability to bolster creatures and give them vigilance, you'll have a blocker ready for as long as Gideon had 3 loyalty.

Queso

pandabear wrote:

Support - I couldn't find any notable support cards.

I just started using my Liliana and have only opened one big box, but the key support card to me so far is:

Blightcaster
uncommon
Black
CC: 6
When you cast a Support, the first creature your opponent controls gains -2/-2 until the end of your turn.

One important thing to note is that Blightcaster triggers on itself. Also nice is that it has 6 "defense" (it takes 6 matches to destroy it). It's not necessarily game breaking, but makes the other mediocre Supports have at least some purpose.

Unknown

pandabear wrote:

Liliana

Oh boy, you might think, this is black which means creature destruction, life drain, ressing zombies...and you'd be right...sort of. Except all of that is really tedious and extremely mana inefficient. I gotta say Liliana might be decent, but she is a LOT of work to play, and you need a lot of good cards. Her starting deck is godawful. If you stick with her she is...decent. But very, very slow. One of the worst at low levels however, with abilities that don't really do much of anything. Everything costs WAY too much, and likely you'll die before you can even get a few creatures out.

Corrupt - this costs too much. Discards 2 (or 3 later on) cards for the price of 1. Not bad, but unsustainable. Good if you can catch a big fatty.

Grave Mist - this costs too much. 1 damage to all your creatures for 1, 2, or 3 damage to all opponent creatures. This is better, and can be a board wipe if you hold onto it.

Raise Dead - this costs too much. See a trend here?

I gotta say despite trying to play this deck I don't have many good creatures for it. If someone has input on some wow creatures please let me know (uncommon/common only, maybe a rare!).

Creatures

• Blood Cursed Knight - this costs too much...but if you play the whole disable thing, is a good way of maintaining your health. Still a 5/4 for 17 is painful to bear.
• Catacomb Slug - 17 for a 2/6? What? This costs too much.
• Possessed Skaab - pretty expensive for a 4/3, but at least it lets you return one more super expensive creature...to your hand. Sigh.
• Shambling Ghoul - 6 for a 2/2...jesus christ. At least this is a zombie, so you can combo it with your res.
• Undead Servant - 12 for 2 2/2's...I guess you could do worse. At least these are all zombies too.
• Deadbridge Shaman - 8 for a 3/1, thank god we have at least something that is -sort- of mana efficient.
• Fleshbag Marauder - thank god! This card is fantastic even without any effect, a 5/3 for 10. With its effect however, it is a great way of removing creatures. Should be in every deck.

Black creatures are a huge disappointment

Spells

• Consecrated by Blood - this costs too much (more than a 3/3 or even 4/4 with flying would)..but it gives regenerate, which is nice. Decent on a creature with lifelink or can swing for a ton (or both!)
• Cruel Revival - a very hard to use spell, it requires 1) enemy has a nonzombie AND 2) you have a zombie (non token) that has died in the past. So...this being your only main removal spell, it is unusable unless you cast your terrible efficiency zombies, AND get them kiled, AND they're only returned to your hand. Sigh...
• Necromantic Summons - I am unsure whether it requires your opponent to have lost a creature or not, but if not, then this is a very good card. It is pretty good regardless, esp if you can ping one of your opponent's little creatures right after you lose a big one.
• Reave Soul - decent against decks that like to stack little creatures, or those with weak creatures with strong effects. Also good to combo with Necromantic Summons.

Support - I couldn't find any notable support cards.

Like your insight, very much agreed. Especially the the part that most of the black creatures and spells are cumbersome.

However I do find the PW power that let you discard last card from your hand offers a nice synergy with Cruel Revival (discard a zombie and enable the removal, it actually returns the discarded zombie back to your hand so you can discard it again to set up for the next removal.) Corrupt actually locks down opponent's hand in later turns unless they can cascade a creature out in one turn. And it's a good way to shuffle hands one card at a time when it's full. I used Read of Bones to draw cards until I get it to level 2.

The zombies that I'm running is Fleshbag Marauder(Uncommon, Black 10, 5/3 When this creature enters the battlefield, choose another creature you control, destroy that creature and the first creature your opponent controls. *different from description on card. you get to choose which creature you want to sacrifice instead of your first one.) Possessed Skaab(Uncommon, Black/Blue 13, 4/3, when this creature enters the battlefield, the last card that was destroyed is returned to your hand.). 2 Zombies is enough to enable the synergy, let alone its own effect.

I was quite lucky to pull a Erebos's Tian(Mystic) and a Despoiler of souls(Rare) with earned crystal. Both have a conditional ability to come back to the battlefield the turn it's destroyed. They can be used as sacrifice for Fleshbag Marauder. I actually run a Brawler's Plate to give berserker to my first creature so once they are on board I can focus on maintaining the regenerate condition met and rely on them to clear the board.

Grave Mist is actually an active 3 meaning you would be able to get 3 AOEs maximum. 12 cost makes it quite late to be available however. Treat it as a last resort board wipe comebacks that complements the win more ability Corrupt. Same goes for Raise Dead, you won't need it if you are ahead and is spamming Corrupt to lock down opponents hand.

I guess even in MTG Puzzle Quest, black creatures aren't the most cost efficient lot, partly due to the synergy with PW ability and spells.

Unknown

to add to creatures for Chandra

Seismic elemental
cost 10
4/4
when entering battlefield all creatures cant block till the end of your turn
(seems potent)

for liliana
shaman of the pack
cost 10
4/3
when this enters play opponent takes 1 dmg for each elf you control on the battlefield
(thought effects based on stuff you have in play seem less efficient, a 4/3 for 10 is more efficient than a lot of other options in black; it's also green)

malakir cullblade
cost 9
3/3
gets +1/+1 when opponent creature is destroyed

foundry of the consuls could be good in any deck possibly
cost 11
summon 4 1/1 thopters with flying

madsalad

BlackSheep101 wrote:

I underrated Murder Investigation initially. Combined with Gideon's ability to bolster creatures and give them vigilance, you'll have a blocker ready for as long as Gideon had 3 loyalty.

I really, REALLY, wish there was a designation between "token" creature and creatures played out of hand, and that Murder Investigation stipulated "non-token" creatures because Gideon being able to have a permablocker sucks. I'm playing a quick battle right now where my opponent is playing Gideon, I have him down to 2 health and he has had a stupid permablocker with support making him like a 4/1 every turn. It sucks.

Also, I find that Gideon's power does not show that a creature had gained Vigilance. Now Vigilance trait shows up on the creature in my game so it is hard to remember that he is going to chump block me.

Unknown

I got more mythics/rares with Jace and he is impressively good.

I've beaten every storyline mission with a level 14 Jace. I did similar with Chandra, but I had to get to 25ish for rank 2 DD ability, and did not feel as dominant against the ones with good creature control.

It should be noted I have 3 blue mythics and 0 red mythics however, so I cannot compare their decks realistically right now.

PvP wise, both decks do well.

Unknown

Is there a benefit to have in multiple of the same card in my collection? Does it increase draw rate of said card?

Unknown

I got these two blue mythics:

Disciple of the Ring (CC 20)
Creature - Attacker
7/8
Activate 5: The first card your opponent controls loses 4 mana. Disciple of the Ring gains +4/+4 until the beginning of your next turn and the first creature with Defender or Reach your opponent controls is Disabled until the end of your turn.

Day's Undoing (CC 6)
Spell Card
Both players move all the cards from their hands to their libraries. The libraries are then shuffled. Both players draw 5 cards. All cards in your hand gain 3 mana.

The Disciple is expensive but is both a wincon and a lock piece. Day's Undoing is really sick and can completely turn a game around if you're on the ropes, it serves as a mulligan in the early game when you have a bad hand, and just feels like a mini-combo in and of itself. Along with a bunch of bounce and lock spells, chaining these together is just plain nuts.

So, yeah: Jace is good.

Unknown

Some Rare/Mythic cards I have found that are not mentioned previously that I find useful.


Unholy Hunger (8) - Spell -Destroy target creature. If there are 8 or more Black gems on the board, gain 2 life.
Graveblade Marauder (15) - 4/7 Deathtouch, Berserker - When this creature deals combat damage to a planeswalker, your opponenet take 5 damage.
Despoiler of Souls (12) - 5/2 Creature - When this creature is destroyed, if you have a card with at least 3 mana, you lose 3 mana and this creature is returned to the battlefield.


Ravaging Blaze (6) - Spell - Deal 4 damage to target creature. If there are 8 or more Red gems on the board, deal 4 damage to your opponent.
Scab-Clan Berserker (19) - 6/6 Haste, Beserker - Renown 3. Whenever your opponent casts a spell or a support, your opponent takes 3 damage.

Artifact
Hangarback Walker (25) - 8/8 creature - Whenever you match 3 gems or more, summon 1 1/1 Thopter with flying. When this creature is destroyed, summon 8 1/1 Thopters with flying.

Unknown

Theldin wrote:

Some Rare/Mythic cards I have found that are not mentioned previously that I find useful.


Unholy Hunger (8) - Spell -Destroy target creature. If there are 8 or more Black gems on the board, gain 2 life.
Graveblade Marauder (15) - 4/7 Deathtouch, Berserker - When this creature deals combat damage to a planeswalker, your opponenet take 5 damage.
Despoiler of Souls (12) - 5/2 Creature - When this creature is destroyed, if you have a card with at least 3 mana, you lose 3 mana and this creature is returned to the battlefield.

Oh boy, Liliana actually gets to do stuff, those rares actually look pretty good. I currently play her as a lockdown/lifeleech deck with the mythic Demonic Pact (level 4 Liliana lol), that deck is good ONLY for storyline missions where no other lockdown works, esp ones with high creature damage


Ravaging Blaze (6) - Spell - Deal 4 damage to target creature. If there are 8 or more Red gems on the board, deal 4 damage to your opponent.
Scab-Clan Berserker (19) - 6/6 Haste, Beserker - Renown 3. Whenever your opponent casts a spell or a support, your opponent takes 3 damage.

Ravaging Blaze is pretty much just strictly worse than Exquisite Flamecraft, and only barely better than Lightning Spear. Scab-Clan berserker is worse than Iroas's Champion (and more rare) in pretty much every scenario except where you really need that haste. Even after renown, she is a 9/9 while Iroas's hits for baseline 8 damage.

Artifact
Hangarback Walker (25) - 8/8 creature - Whenever you match 3 gems or more, summon 1 1/1 Thopter with flying. When this creature is destroyed, summon 8 1/1 Thopters with flying.

Yea I've seen that Hangarback Walker...it can win a game by itself. Great in a Jace bounce deck as you can go all spells and only have this one creature.

void

Slick thread, as a masochist I only play as Liliana in this game so I'll offer my two cents regarding the class and few of the cards that haven't been mentioned yet.

Most of what you guys have said so far rings true, black creatures in this game tend to be overcosted and understatted and the colour really lacks the board control tools to play the long game from hand. Liliana does have decent spot removal with Unholy Hunger but outside of that I find that the best win condition she has is liberal use of her ability to deny your opponent from having and playing cards that will in all likelyhood be better than yours.

Few black cards I haven't noticed yet.

Priest of the Blood Rite 15 mana 6/6 Rare
- Summon a 5/5 Demon with Flying, Trap 5 You take 2 damage
I really like this one and feel like its one of the only fairly balanced Black cards and the drawback fits the feel of the colour really well. The problem here is that you really only get 2 fairly strong vanilla bodies for 15 mana and that often pales in comparison to what other colours can do for that cost.

Gilt-Leaf Winnower 16 mana 4/3 Reach Menace Uncommon
You could pay 15 mana for the amazing Graveblade Marauder OR you could pay 16 mana for garbage defender with Menace!

Revenant 15 mana 3/4 Uncommon
- Summon 2 2/2 Zombies.
This card has some synergy with the cheaper zombie creature but it's too slow so it doesn't even work that well in a fast more zoo-type deck with cards like Tormented Thoughts. Unless you're hellbent on going zombie I don't see a reason in playing this over Priest of the Blood Rite.

Possessed Skaab 13 mana 4/3 Black/Blue Uncommon
- The last card that was destroyed is returned to your hand
I don't think cast spells count as destroyed so the only decent use for this one I could think of in bringing removal back to your hand falls flat.

Returned Centaur 13 mana 3/5 Uncommon
- Convert 3 gems to Black
The only deck this fits is a deck of unremarkable Black cards which unfortunately is a deck most Black cards in this game fit to.

Blazing Hellhound 10 mana 4/3 Berzerker Black/Red Uncommon
- Activate 1 Red: First creature your opponent controls takes 1 damage.
While the effect is rather unremarkable I really like this card as early game board presense and replaced the Deadbridge Shaman with it.

Tainted Remedy 15 mana Support Rare
- Trap 3 Black: Each creature you control gains 1 life and each creature your opponent controls takes 1 damage.
This card right here sums up Black in this game better than I could ever do. 15 mana for a worthless effect that most likely never triggers. As a Rare.

Blightcaster 6 mana Support Uncommon
- When you cast a support, first creature your opponent controls gains -2/-2 until the end of your turn.
In a game where Claustrofobia is a card this is an insult.

Tormented Thoughts 6 mana Spell Uncommon
- Sacrifice 1 creature you control and destroy 2 last cards of your opponents hand.
I haven't really played around with this card yet since it doesn't fit to my current minion light control deck, but I feel it has potential. Limiting your opponents options is vital but Black creatures are so expensive it's difficult to justify using this.

Eyeblight Massacre 9 mana Spell Uncommon
- All creatures gain -2/-2 until the beginning of your next turn.
I guess this can be used to stall? Or as an activator for those rubbish 1 damage board clears Liliana has.

Weight of the Underworld 8 mana Spelll Uncommon
- Give -3/-2 to target creature.
Really good spell in my opinion.

Unknown

My favorite jace combo:

Jhessian Thief/Sphinx's Tutelage/Artificer's Epiphany

Unknown

Yea those cards sure look like ****!

Pretty much my black deck is only used because I have demonic pact.

I put demonic pact in there, then the rest of the cards are just filler.

Demonic pact ends games. It is just over once you have that.

I keep some languish (-4/-4 all creatures, the rare version of eyeblight massacre) to kill off creatures that somehow get through (or just use liliana's second ability).

Basically the strategy of this game is to get demonic pact out before you die. Then discard all their cards. Then wait X turns where X is their life total. You can win any storyline game this way, given a slight amount of luck. I especially used this on storyline missions where they have bogus abilities like 6 mana destroy a creature. Just sit back and relax for 100 turns while demonic pact does its thing.

She is a one trick pony and her trick is more 1 card than any sort of combo. Though I did just finally get a Terminate (8 mana, not too bad) so maybe she's useful in the future...but all her cards are so expensive and just pointless when you can beat her with a vanilla volcanic rumbler in 5 turns.

Blahahah

Sheesh, so hard on Lili.
I mean you didn't even give Raise dead its fair shake. Its so good. Especially at later levels.

Also blightcaster is obscenely good. Comparing it to claust isn't exactly fair on account of it having 3x more board presence and outright removing the cards or softening them while your own get buffed. -2/-2 when its played, -2/-2 for every support you play after.

When you consider the average life total of most creatures will be around 4, and that you can put spells on hold... It becomes on-demand removal that doesn't go away. Lilianna has access to such good cards to work with it too (3 beserkers, reave soul, etc) and a high enough support threshold to make it work.


Yeah, you aren't wrong that her zombies are trash cards. Most of her early cards are expensive, but really after finishing the deck, nothing is more expensive than 14 and thats for a 6/6 with flying. Most of the cards cost like... 6 mana.

Unknown

Yea but its 6 mana for a 2/2 while you could go 9 mana for a Mizzium who immediately wins you the game.

We have to put some bound here on "suckiness" and there just isn't anything that Black does that someone else doesn't do better.

Well, technically I suppose, and that would be "board wipe and then rebound" but when is that necessary? Why not just prevent them from casting any creatures in the first place (Jace) or simply pummel them into submission (gideon) or outright creature kill (chandra)?

Berserk is the least useful of creature kill skills, after vigilance (first strike is a bonus) and DD, because it wastes a creature's damage for that turn.

I'm sure you can make a black deck that does well (very well) in both pvp and story, but the problem is the other planeswalkers can do so much easier with fewer rare cards, and at lower levels. So this is why I rate her so poorly. How many of the really good things you mentioned are rares or above? While Chandra/Gideon can win hands down with no rares at all, and Jace only really needs ONE of his many amazing rares to work.

void

Blahahah wrote:

Sheesh, so hard on Lili.

Trust me on this man, I would love to have a Black deck that has that really gels together and is a treat to play but the tools we've been handed aren't much.

My Black deck is an attrition focused grinder deck built around Corrupt and removal until I have enough of a card advantage to flip the board with few choice minions. I wouldn't even call the deck bad, I cleared the story mode and do well enough on Quick Match with it but we both know that doesn't mean much. Especially as other colours have way more consistant and easier win conditions.

But I admit you sort of sold me on Blightcaster so I'll give it another spin.

pandabear wrote:

I'm sure you can make a black deck that does well (very well) in both pvp and story, but the problem is the other planeswalkers can do so much easier with fewer rare cards, and at lower levels. So this is why I rate her so poorly. How many of the really good things you mentioned are rares or above? While Chandra/Gideon can win hands down with no rares at all, and Jace only really needs ONE of his many amazing rares to work.

So pretty much this, unfortunately.