Patch Notes - 2/14 Discussion

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

soenottelling wrote:

I don't think u give deceptive tactics enough credit. Yes, 8v11 is not trivial, but her purple builds green, shuffles the board, creates critical tiles, can knock out opponent tiles (not cover, but you can 4 match them away), and can be used cleverly to set up future matches with the critical in which case the damage output from it is actually rather non-trivial. The machine is just stupid.

I don't think gravity warp is bad. I think all.she really.needs is something to make her black more viable. Unless they start bringing in sine massive countdown tile monsters in pve her black is way too expensive for what it does...and the "no countdown tile on the board" effect is too weak for 17? ap.

There's a general lack of powerful countdown tiles in this game so of course Control Shift is pretty weak. It's similar to how Aggressive Recon didn't seem that powerful back when Feral Claws was 3 AP since you can always get rid of your AP almost immediately. It'll take time for the general immediate versus CD ability balance to be achieved. Honestly the PvE fights are what the CD tiles should look like. They should do absolutely crazy things precisely because you have multiple turns and multiple methods to stop it, and sometimes even the AI is on your side. Let's say Adamantium Slash does 3K damage for 12 red, then Explosive Arrow should be at least 2000 damage to all 3 targets for 10 red, and if Exploisve Arrow did that, it'd also be worth stealing. That's not how the game currently is, but I think it'll change toward that direction eventually.

Deceptive Tactics also suffers from the special tile issue since it cannot cover special tile or environmental tiles. Yes, you can usually still find a way to blow something up with it but it gets more difficult if there are special tiles around. If you're looking at a clean board then Deceptive Tactics is probably superior, but Gravity Warp is pretty awesome on a clean board too (damage + 4 AP gained in the worst case usually, and often can do damage + match 4/5 with some planning). There's alos the fact that Deceptive Tactics doesn't do much unless Sniper Rifle is at level 5 and currently getting Sniper Rifle to level 5 is very hard. I think there Sniper Rifle should be rebalanced but until it is, the level 5 requirement is actually quite significant. If you're one level short, suddenly Sniper Rifle is just a badly overpriced green move.

I expect at some point gsbw will be "balanced." At lvl 5 her green is arguably too strong and up until.then it is just way too weak. It's similar to the reasoning why they said they would redo skulls that used "lower ap costs.". Moves were useless at the beginning and too strong at the end. Would be surprised if you see her red tweaked as well to cost a little less or function differently so that its a more viable option. Right now its laughable to play against someone with a strong red and gsbw because she will use the red and end up doing trivial damage for the ap consumed.

I agree, that countdown tiles need a buff, or at least new characters should be getting new and better countdown tiles. I like ares yellow, but that's in part because its a hybrid so you don't lose eVERYTHING if it is destroyed. I think there are 3 trains of thought: 1. You buff them as you stated. They should be higher damage per ap than a normal move. 2. All countdown tile moves are cheaper than direct damage moves. Effectively does the same as #1 but works more towards spamming.countdowns a la the machine minions. 3. You start making countdown tiles harder to destroy. Maybe, like daredevil's traps, if they are destroyed via a match they simply reappear elsewhere with the countdown restarted. Or if a countdown is destroyed via a match it creates a weaker secondary effect. Ex: destroy Hawkeye's tile early and it does half damage to only one enemy ...since I assume the idea of the charge, for him, is that he is taking careful aim and so destroying it early means it doesn't get to line up the shot right...not necessarily that it does nothing.

Of course...you can do all three but for diff characters..but those are the three trains of thought imo.

I'd love to see xforce keep his yellow tile but either get an added bonus to it, have it "hard to kill" like I explained, or make the move a hybrid like ares.

As for deceptive tactics, its very unlikely that you cannot line up a connect 4 to.wipe a specific tile.off.the map...but it does.happen once in.a blue moon. Also, there are plenty of characters with good green. She isn't the only.one able Tobias it. Arguments could.be made for using other abilities.over her sniper. 2 uses of patches might be better if you have a lot.of.green on the hoard already and not a lot of purple for example. Or.what if they only.have 1 character left? It builds.GREEN ..not green just for sniper.

(Sorry for the periods...the period is right next to space.in a horrible.spot on the phone)

bahamut685

soenottelling wrote:

I don't think u give deceptive tactics enough credit. Yes, 8v11 is not trivial, but her purple builds green, shuffles the board, creates critical tiles, can knock out opponent tiles (not cover, but you can 4 match them away), and can be used cleverly to set up future matches with the critical in which case the damage output from it is actually rather non-trivial. The machine is just stupid.

I don't think gravity warp is bad. I think all.she really.needs is something to make her black more viable. Unless they start bringing in sine massive countdown tile monsters in pve her black is way too expensive for what it does...and the "no countdown tile on the board" effect is too weak for 17? ap.

Agree, except for the fact the idea that only her black needs work... Her red is (on average) the weakest damage-to-ap red move in the game, besides Punisher and Captain (but then, Captain gets back all his AP, and Punisher downs enemies under 40%).
Disclaimer: 1-star characters were not being considered in the damage-to-ap comparisons, because they're 1-stars [though even Juggernaut is likely to have a better ratio].

Unknown

Wow. In your stats could you observe even a single use of that ability? Who cares the strength of shields that are never created?

Dayv

pasa_ wrote:

Wow. In your stats could you observe even a single use of that ability? Who cares the strength of shields that are never created?

I've had the skill save my bacon before, using it as protect instead of making a match, but only very rarely.

Unknown

Don't think gsbw will really look at a funbalance soon. she's a super heavy skill hitter but all skills cost a hefty amount in comparison. also alot of covers. she's super squishy. You can hide her by pairing her with someone strong in green and red but i wouldn't say she breaks the game in any way.

ErikPeter

octagon69 wrote:

Lol,

The reason its underused is because it costs so much.

By the time you can use this ability ICEIX you either have won the game and you're using it for a 5 Hit extra turn or it won't make a difference if you are losing.

Instead of buffing the ability, why not decrease the cost of the ability.

You might be losing, but once you use his ability, you're not losing anymore. I've had Cap be the weak last member of his team standing after brutal Rag chains, but then he pops his yellow, and you win. It just takes a while, since he's so defensive. I repeat the sentiment above that he's a slower, PvE character, but saying that his power doesn't make any difference is a bold lie.

bahamut685

soenottelling wrote:

3. You start making countdown tiles harder to destroy. Maybe, like daredevil's traps, if they are destroyed via a match they simply reappear elsewhere with the countdown restarted.

Traps only do anything against players, since the computer won't match them [unless they're in a 4 or 5, or the ONLY match on the board]. Between that and being overwritten/destroyed by any special tile/tile destroying power, I don't think they're a great example of an improvement (maybe for the AI, since they can pinpoint the 'invisible' traps).

DD-The-Mighty

ErikPeter wrote:

octagon69 wrote:

Lol,

The reason its underused is because it costs so much.

By the time you can use this ability ICEIX you either have won the game and you're using it for a 5 Hit extra turn or it won't make a difference if you are losing.

Instead of buffing the ability, why not decrease the cost of the ability.

You might be losing, but once you use his ability, you're not losing anymore. I've had Cap be the weak last member of his team standing after brutal Rag chains, but then he pops his yellow, and you win. It just takes a while, since he's so defensive. I repeat the sentiment above that he's a slower, PvE character, but saying that his power doesn't make any difference is a bold lie.

Dont confuse boosted cap vs Unboosted ragarok with unboosted cap vs unboosted ragnarok. He's lacking unboosted.