PvE Rewards: I think it's finally time [to adjust these]

Dalbok

... to adjust these. I think these are long overdue for some kind of change. A couple of suggestions I have would be:

- When Nodes have multiple rewards, change it so that they are ALL awarded before issuing out the 20 ISO

- In regards to the 20 ISO, that should be increased and adjusted based on the challenge leve of the Node, for example:

- Trivial : 20 (maybe 50)
- Easy: 50 (maybe 100)
- Normal: 100 (maybe 250)
- Difficult: 250 (maybe 500)
- Deadly: 500 (maybe 1000)

And perhaps Difficult and Deadly need to be a little less so they're not farmed, but if they truly are Difficult/Deadly then it's less likely they can/will be farmed at least not without spending on Boosts/Health Packs.

Thoughts?

Mod Edit: Moved to Suggestions, corrected title to show content

fmftint

They need a 4* progression reward, you should be able to earn all essentials in a story event. Currently you can earn the 2/3* essential characters through progression but not the 4*

mohio

My thoughts on your post:

1) It needs a different title. I wouldn't be shocked if the mods retitle it, but something more descriptive of what is actually in the post would be nice.

2) Totally agree with your first point, we should exhaust the "actual" node rewards before we start getting the 20 iso "thanks for grinding" award. This would also help noobs grind out rewards in prologue which isn't so bad. It's been discussed to death however, so I don't think anything additional really needs to be said about it.

3) The meat of your post so to speak; the actual idea you have proposed for us to discuss. Honestly, I think these values are too high for the devs to stomach. Those Normal, Hard, and Deadly nodes are the ones offering 500, 250, crit boost, token - so it averages out to ~200 iso per fight (assuming the token is roughtly 100 iso). I don't personally see them deciding to award more iso than that as the default after all "normal" rewards have been exhausted. Not to mention you generally only reach Hard or Deadly nodes if you're grinding at the end of a sub (and grinding easy to hard - if you start on the harder ones they stay normal the whole time if you do it right).

Also, variations on this have been suggested before. My personal favorite is to award iso based on the levels of opponents you are facing. This gets around the devs concern that increasing iso across the board would allow for people to progress too quickly through 2* land into 3* land since those rosters are facing lower level opponenets in both PvE and PvP. It also rewards iso commensurate with time invested. More often than not, its going to take me longer to fight a "Normal" fight against level 300 opponents than it is for a 2* roster to fight level 150 opponents. Despite both being "Normal" I believe the overscaled nature of high level PvE makes my fights (and others with leveled 4*) more difficult and it would only make sense to award iso based on that.

In the end it's all going to boil down to whether the devs believe there is an iso shortage or not. It's pretty clear that the players think that there is. And with them only spitting out new 4* and 5* with their very large iso requirements, it's hard to argue that the same iso supply of the past is going to cut it in the present (and future). This iso shortage is more and more pronounced the higher up in character tiers you go, so a solution that proportionally gives iso to higher level players is more likely to be a good solution for the actual problem that exists. Perhaps they are holding off on doing anything like this because of it's perceived unfairness?

(To put it in perspective, this is already being done in PvP. Higher level rosters can hit those 800, 900, 1k marks and obtain these covers they don't need and sell for iso. Also they are more likely to have high placements and get the larger iso payouts associated with them (and more covers to sell). PvE is currently way more egalitarian as node rewards, progressions, placements, are equal and just as likely to happen for any player no matter what level characters they're playing with. Okay, outside of the required 4* node which probably helps vets a little more.)

mohio

fmftint wrote:

They need a 4* progression reward, you should be able to earn all essentials in a story event. Currently you can earn the 2/3* essential characters through progression but not the 4*

I've thought this for a long time too. In fact I assumed that was the next step they would take, but instead put in the legendary token. While that was a positive step, I would personally rather this solution, despite losing out on that 10% chance of a 5* (or put the legendary token even further out for super-grinders).

alphabeta

fmftint wrote:

They need a 4* progression reward, you should be able to earn all essentials in a story event. Currently you can earn the 2/3* essential characters through progression but not the 4*

Got to agree with this - PVP has a 4* progression and Legendary token plus 4* placement (for those without lives and big bank accounts) - 'normal' pve has Legendary token and 4* placement (for those without lives)

PVE if far more grindy - rewards aren't commensurate with effort - they should put the required 4* where the leg token currently is and then move the leg token out by 20% or so - would also cause dilemma for those looking to hop in late for a fresh bracket - you'll be risking a guaranteed 4* and leg token if you do that.

Yeah ISO 20 is a joke but give they've acknowledged that in one of the videos I'd guess fixing it isn't easy or they'd have done it already just to stop all the noise.

Pogo

aesthetocyst wrote:

Tie the "default" 20 iso ... to scaling. Give players a reason to put up with scaling, feel like they are getting rewarded in a manner commensurate with their achievement.

This.

mohio wrote:

In the end it's all going to boil down to whether the devs believe there is an iso shortage or not. It's pretty clear that the players think that there is. And with them only spitting out new 4* and 5* with their very large iso requirements, it's hard to argue that the same iso supply of the past is going to cut it in the present (and future). This iso shortage is more and more pronounced the higher up in character tiers you go, so a solution that proportionally gives iso to higher level players is more likely to be a good solution for the actual problem that exists. Perhaps they are holding off on doing anything like this because of it's perceived unfairness?

Also this. The cheap ISO payouts would make sense if every level-up cost the same amount of ISO. Even if they want to prevent players from expanding too far too fast, they can always tweak the values, but there should still be a proportionate increase in payouts. There are multiple factors they could consider: Top 3 characters, roster size, average level, average covers, etc.

Given the number of Legendary tokens offered as rewards, it seems feasible to get one every week. How much ISO can a player reasonably expect to earn in a week? Mission rewards, repeat mission pittance, progression rewards, and even selling off low-star covers, I can't imagine it comes anywhere close to being enough to keep up with Legendary growth, especially once the same color cover starts to stack up. I understand that the essence of free-to-play microeconomy is the scarcity model, but they could find ways to give more ISO to the really serious players without risking a surplus.

alphabeta wrote:

fmftint wrote:

They need a 4* progression reward, you should be able to earn all essentials in a story event. Currently you can earn the 2/3* essential characters through progression but not the 4*

Got to agree with this - PVP has a 4* progression and Legendary token plus 4* placement (for those without lives and big bank accounts) - 'normal' pve has Legendary token and 4* placement (for those without lives)

PVE if far more grindy - rewards aren't commensurate with effort - they should put the required 4* where the leg token currently is and then move the leg token out by 20% or so - would also cause dilemma for those looking to hop in late for a fresh bracket - you'll be risking a guaranteed 4* and leg token if you do that.

I know the code isn't currently there for this, but what if hitting that progression milestone allowed you to choose? Either take the essential's cover (in a predetermined color), or take a legendary token? That way they wouldn't have to worry about potentially giving out twice as many 4+ star covers in the same amount of time (in case they would have a reason to want to throttle that). Sure, you can get both in PVP, but you have other players working essentially to impede your progress. In PVE, perseverance (& essentials) is all you really need.