A Real Disscussion on Forum Moderation.

GothicKratos

I'm going to begin this post by saying I will be heavy handed in moderating the posts within this thread -- I will treat this like an official red name thread -- because I am trying to open a person-to-person channel between the community and the moderators. I will not except rudeness or trolling. We all know I'm okay with being the bad guy.

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That aside, I'm going to open this topic by discussing the moderator/administrative perspective (from my point of view, I Cannot speak for any other staff).

Locking Topics: There's a lot of times that threads get locked. A common one is when people post information on the game before the red name topic is up - we lock this type of thread with a link to the red name thread so that all conversation on the topic is one place. It makes it easier for the red names to read feedback, players to find the right information, and for new players to be able to find the information they want easily. That's the reason we lock and merge most topics. Sometimes we lock a thread as a preventative measure; maybe we think it's going to be a magnet for negativity, maybe we think that it's just troll bait, maybe we think it will instigate conversation we don't want to foster (politics, illegal activity, modding/cheating, spoilers, etc). Please remember we're all adults making decisions by our own best judgement.

Merging Topics/Moving Individual Posts: The biggest reason we merge topics is because it's a rehash of a topic that was just discussed, or it's actively being discussed. It's an organizational thing. We want things neat and tidy because we want everyone to be able to find information readily. We also don't want to have people feel like they've had the same discussion three million times simply because they've said the same thing five times in two weeks, because that leads very quickly into the "for the millionth time" snarky type responses.

Moving Threads: This is a big hot button issue right now. Generally speaking, like 99% of the time, moving a topic is just an organizational thing. Like I've said a couple times already, we just want people to be able to find the information they're looking for when they visit the forums. Example: I'm a new player experiencing problems with the game -- where am I going to go to look for information? Bugs. You're not going to think of going to general to look for a big dissertation about how it's negatively impacting your experience and you're annoyed about it.

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From here I am going to try and talk about these things from a personal view. I've been a forumer on a lot of other boards and I've been staff on a lot of other boards too. They all tend to have their own kind of vibe and flow, and I think the biggest thing is we don't have that really. We don't like things and we just bash our head into it until something happens or we forget about it from brain trauma which is why I'm trying to make this post right now. I want to have a real discussion about it where we all acknowledge we're all part of the community, regardless of some stupid status, or what Alliance you're in, or what side of the fence you're in -- we all get a say -- and without someone trying to discredit our opinion.

Locking Topics: I think we're pretty on track here. It's pretty rare to find a locked topic, and if there is, it's linked to another topic where that conversation is going on. I think that's fair. You get your topic and get to state your opinion in it's your little solar system, and you get can your upvotes if people feel the need, but you're not detracting from where the conversation has been going on (or in some cases where it should be) -- plus the other conversation gets a nifty little unintentional plug.

Merging Topics/Moving Individual Posts: I don't think we're really that far of the mark here. It's basically the same as above; we're just trying to keep everything organized. There have been a few times where I thought a poster produced enough of his own conversation starts to deem his own thread only to see it throw into another topic. I think we need to be more careful on that, especially since a lot of the times those posts fall way behind the rest of the thread never to be seen again and that's not what anyone wants.

Moving Threads: I think this is our biggest problem, if you want to call it that. Now, I know who it is that does most of the topic moving, and I'm not going to name drop (because I know what that leads to), but I do want to say a few things about it, because it's completely unfair how his actions are being twisted into some form of militarism. First thing's first, recently (like a month ago I think?) we put together a room on Line for all the moderators, so it would be easier to real-time talk about things and get feedback. He almost always asks before he does virtually anything. He always errs on the side of care. He's not doing anything to be "heavy handed".

I think we, as moderators, need to be more careful about what we deem "discussion" and what we deem "feedback", because that's where the biggest issue comes in -- people are afraid if we move their topic off to Bugs/Feedback they'll get no views and their idea will die before conception. There's a distinct difference between a "discussion" and simply creating "feedback" and I think we all need to remind ourselves of that -- mod and poster alike. If you have an idea on how to improve the UI but you want help fleshing it out? That's a discussion. If you're just brain storming into the reply box though....that's feedback. Remember that it's just as much your job to control the perception of your posts as it's ours to interpret it.

Personally, I tend to be pretty easy going on this topic. If somebody asks for their post not to be moved, I usually just message them and give them a timeline of some sort - a week or something - that gives the topic exposure time, but it also lets me make sure I can keep things organized in the grand scheme of things. However, as users, you have to realize we can't do that every time. That's just a lot to keep track of. Right now we're also playing with the whole "shadow topic" thing, which basically leaves a link in the original sub-forum to where ever it got moved to, and that's actually kind of a double win for the poster because their thread is basically in two places -- however, they're permanent and if we as moderators want to keep things clean, we have to go and delete those later, so really it's the same difference as what I usually do and the same workload. I really don't know what the happy medium here is, but I've got some ideas I'll be sharing with the rest of staff later, but it's ultimately going to be extra workload for us.

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Last but not least, I want to point out a few things that I noticed that might help alleviate things in the meantime that I'm not sure everyone realizes.

There's a "View New Posts" button on the main page of the forums. Yes, it does show the posts from ATPQ and MtGPQ, but those are honestly extremely rare. It's not perfect, but it's there. I always browse the forums this way, so I don't have to look through every subforum and go page by page. That's just exhausting.

There's a "View Your Posts" button that's persistent across all pages on the forums. If your thread gets moved or or your post is merged into another topic, it will still show up there. You can also look at your profile (easiest way is normally just to hit view my posts and click your name somewhere) and use the "Search User's Post" feature.

DFiPL

GothicKratos wrote:

Locking Topics: There's a lot of times that threads get locked. A common one is when people post information on the game before the red name topic is up - we lock this type of thread with a link to the red name thread so that all conversation on the topic is one place. It makes it easier for the red names to read feedback, players to find the right information, and for new players to be able to find the information they want easily.

But you know what happens when you lock a topic? It falls off the front page. You know what happens when a topic falls off the front page? People who never saw the original post create mirror topics. You aren't (mostly) actually cattle-dogging traffic to the Red Name Post the way you think you are. Or, to the extent you are, the effect isn't persistent because MPQ has players all over the world who check in on the forums at different times of day relative to you, the moderator. Is threadlocking the greatest of my concerns? No, but it does fall under the larger umbrella of moderator activity I was commenting on in the other thread.

That's the reason we lock and merge most topics. Sometimes we lock a thread as a preventative measure; maybe we think it's going to be a magnet for negativity, maybe we think that it's just troll bait, maybe we think it will instigate conversation we don't want to foster (politics, illegal activity, modding/cheating, spoilers, etc). Please remember we're all adults making decisions by our own best judgement.

The thing about negativity is that - and this isn't ALWAYS true, I get that - it needs a pressure release valve. And I guess that falls under "best judgment." But two things happen if "oh this could turn negative lock it" is SOP. The first is that it sends a message to the community that "it's more important to sweep the negativity under the rug for PR reasons than to engage it," and that just fosters additional disgruntlement. At that point, it almost doesn't matter if green or red names assure the community that they're being heard; when the complaints are being locked or merged into sanitized topics, it can be difficult to take those assurances at face value. Your points about troll bait and undesirable conversation are well taken, but there's negativity and negativity. There's "**** this **** cheating ****" negativity, which isn't productive, and objections to design decisions, feature rollouts (or rollbacks), and things of that nature. The latter can turn negative, but that negativity is seldom in the spirit of "watch the world burn." If frustration and negativity mount, it will more often be because of a sense that the community isn't being listened to than because the design issue is just THAT critical.

Merging Topics/Moving Individual Posts: The biggest reason we merge topics is because it's a rehash of a topic that was just discussed, or it's actively being discussed. It's an organizational thing. We want things neat and tidy because we want everyone to be able to find information readily. We also don't want to have people feel like they've had the same discussion three million times simply because they've said the same thing five times in two weeks, because that leads very quickly into the "for the millionth time" snarky type responses.

Organization is fine, but the problem with omnibus threads is they quickly get unwieldy. I'll give you a great example: there's a community called "CAG." I'm not going to spell out the acronym because I don't know how the filter will handle it, but it's a well-known community based around gaming bargains. They have omnibus threads for...oh, all kinds of things. And people do not read the entirety of those omnibus threads to find their answers. People will seldom go more than a page or two back before they post their issue. That's just human nature. That, offhand, is why I proposed in the thread I created the other day, that there be a master FAQ post pinned to the top of the forum. That seems to be happening, and my hunch is that that will have the long-term effect of reducing the perceived need for de-cluttering the forums, because many of the most commonly sought answers will be in one place (and in the first page of the thread, no less), which helps with that "human nature is lazy" stuff. But, again, the problem with merging, especially if the topics are tangential but not directly connected - is that you end up with a really generic/sanitized (depending on what the nature of the conversation IS) thread title that doesn't necessarily suggest "the topic I want to discuss is contained within this thread." That's always going to be a big part of why you end up playing whack-a-mole with rehash topics.

Moving Threads: This is a big hot button issue right now. Generally speaking, like 99% of the time, moving a topic is just an organizational thing. Like I've said a couple times already, we just want people to be able to find the information they're looking for when they visit the forums. Example: I'm a new player experiencing problems with the game -- where am I going to go to look for information? Bugs. You're not going to think of going to general to look for a big dissertation about how it's negatively impacting your experience and you're annoyed about it.

Disagree. I mean, not that they're coming looking for a dissertation, but disagree that "bugs" is the first place they're going to go. The FIRST thing they're going to do is say "hey, has anybody else noticed this?" and if people have, they go file a bug report. Or they get told that it's a known issue and just sit tight. I don't think I have ever, in almost 20 years of constant internet use, made a bug forum my first stop. Human nature = lazy, remember? Organization is great but not everybody compartmentalizes the same way.

Put another way: MPQ is a fairly casual game. This isn't a Bethesda title with a million moving parts, a "hardcore" fanbase with 20-30 years of gaming experience under their belt and a sort of assumption that there are going to be bugs, it's just a question of which ones and where. This is a game largely played by people with smartphones, and THEIR familiarity with message boards on the Internet is not going to be consistent. On balance, they are going to head for what appears to be the most populated part of a board to air their grievances, share their joys, ask their questions, and generally interact. General Discussion: 8804 topics as of this post. the rest of the forums combined: 10,808 topics across 7 sub-forums. Human nature = lazy. General Discussion is going to be this bright beacon summoning people. "Come and read me!"

I guess what I'm saying isn't "never merge, lock or move threads," because that's unrealistic, but that collectively it wouldn't be a bad idea for moderators to show a lighter touch in doing so. Whatever happened with Galactus seems to have sparked a marked increase in moderator activity, and most of my issues (I won't speak for the rest of the forum) with moderator activity has arisen in that time. Something changed, and I haven't been left feeling like it was a change for the better.

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Locking Topics: I think we're pretty on track here. It's pretty rare to find a locked topic, and if there is, it's linked to another topic where that conversation is going on. I think that's fair. You get your topic and get to state your opinion in it's your little solar system, and you get can your upvotes if people feel the need, but you're not detracting from where the conversation has been going on (or in some cases where it should be) -- plus the other conversation gets a nifty little unintentional plug.

"Should be" gets into matters of judgment, though. If someone took the time to raise an issue she saw as being separately relevant from the "main" conversation, merging her thread into the one you think it "should" be in is a matter of superimposing your judgment over hers. For instance, the nature of how easily (or not) a token is earned is not fundamentally similar to pull rates from that token type. But the increased moderator activity has tended towards "they're talking about Token X in this thread and that thread and that thread, let's put them all in the same thread." And what's being said about or in relation to the token(s) in those threads may be disparate conversations. Just because the seed is the same doesn't mean the plants grow the same way.

Merging Topics/Moving Individual Posts: I don't think we're really that far of the mark here. It's basically the same as above; we're just trying to keep everything organized. There have been a few times where I thought a poster produced enough of his own conversation starts to deem his own thread only to see it throw into another topic. I think we need to be more careful on that, especially since a lot of the times those posts fall way behind the rest of the thread never to be seen again and that's not what anyone wants.

Threads evolve. And that's one argument for not merging with abandon. If you want curated conversation, you're going to get a very different board than if you allow for dynamic discussion and topic evolution.

Moving Threads: I think this is our biggest problem, if you want to call it that. Now, I know who it is that does most of the topic moving, and I'm not going to name drop (because I know what that leads to), but I do want to say a few things about it, because it's completely unfair how his actions are being twisted into some form of militarism. First thing's first, recently (like a month ago I think?) we put together a room on Line for all the moderators, so it would be easier to real-time talk about things and get feedback. He almost always asks before he does virtually anything. He always errs on the side of care. He's not doing anything to be "heavy handed".

I'm sorry, but if you're talking about whom I think you are, I think his own words are damning enough that no twisting is necessary, and I would strenuously, vehemently disagree with your last two assertions. But that's as far as I'm going to go on that topic.

There's a "View New Posts" button on the main page of the forums. Yes, it does show the posts from ATPQ and MtGPQ, but those are honestly extremely rare. It's not perfect, but it's there. I always browse the forums this way, so I don't have to look through every subforum and go page by page. That's just exhausting.

There's a "View Your Posts" button that's persistent across all pages on the forums. If your thread gets moved or or your post is merged into another topic, it will still show up there. You can also look at your profile (easiest way is normally just to hit view my posts and click your name somewhere) and use the "Search User's Post" feature.

It still shows up there, but it's not always evident which thread is the one you're looking for. My top 5 posts there, currently, I recognize the threads and know generally what I said so I know what I'm looking for in terms of responses. Usually, I have to go much further down that list before I see a topic I go "oh yeah I remember posting there" and thus remember WHAT I posted there. When threads get merged, thread titles get scrubbed, etc, that gets harder. Especially if I'm trying to sneak in a quick forum view while I'm on a bathroom break at work or something. I don't have the time, in that situation, to look through five different posts with "today" as the most recent reply looking for my post so I can see who responded and what they said. It's one thing to say "look you have this tool," but it's another entirely for that tool to be the appropriate one to the moment.

Unknown

GothicKratos wrote:

I will not except rudeness or trolling. We all know I'm okay with being the bad guy.

So you won't accept anything except rudeness and trolling? I think we're on the right track here...

Unknown

How about a mod (Davybang) bumping a post for no reason other than to demean (troll) the OP. He has nothing to add other than the OP is exhibiting "first-rate passive aggression" and should change his username to fit his negative attitude. Is a mod repeatedly bumping threads with negative and unproductive comments considered appropriate? I would think mods would have the good sense to temper trollish behavior and move conversations in a productive manner rather than piling on the childish behavior.

If people don't like posts then let them die. Continuously bumping them up to the top with Internet tough-guy comments hurts the community as a whole and gives a poor vibe to new forum visitors.

dr tinykittylove

I think the mods mean well and do a lot of unpaid work without thanks. That said, after Galactus, it feels like the modding has been a little overzealous and the forum has lost some of the freewheeling, casual vibe I enjoyed.

On the other hand, some posters have been very irritating as well. I guess this is like the 20 iso situation and no one wins?

fight4thedream

I was going to post this in the Mod cave but since we are having an open discussion on the topic it is perhaps best to post it here.

I think GK is on point with his observations. I do think for the most part we have been doing a pretty good job on handling the general stewardship duties that come with our position. However, I do feel we could tone things down a notch or two on the thread moving and merging. This issue has actually been a point of contention between me and some of the other mods. Their argument is that we have subforums for a reason and allowing topics that belong in those subforums to remain in General Discussion encourages members to continue with such behavior. I concede this is a valid point. However, I argue that the reality of our situation is that the vast majority of our users do not check those subforums and that the General Discussion should be like the main lobby of a bookstore: a place where the latest hot topics and news are discussed, offering a variety of topics for a user to peruse. Yes, as GK pointed out, there is a view new posts button where you can do this but I'm willing to bet most people don't.

Which leads to the question of: What is the General Discussion for? The subtitle states: Come here to talk about any game related topics. This, amigos and amigas, is the source of all our woes. It does not say: Come here to talk about any game related topics not already covered by other sub-forums. Obviously such a title would be tacky and pedantic.

I think one of things we have lost sight of as mods is that our job is not simply maintaining the organizational structure of the forum but also ensuring that members enjoy coming here. When a member makes a post, they have invested time and thought and believe they have something of value to contribute. Otherwise, they wouldn't bother posting. Granted, not all posts are equal and when someone posts a topic that has been discussed or being discussed elsewhere, we have to consider a proper course of action. But that action does not always have to be a move or a merge.

If I may, I want to talk about two instances where I came upon topics in the General Discussion that I could have instantly waved the mod stick on but didn't:

The first case was from a fairly prolific forum member who started making posts about Marvel comic book events. Being a comic book geek myself, I enjoyed the discussion going on in the thread but I also understood that this was pushing the boundaries of game related topics. Beyond the obvious Marvel connection, the thread had nothing to do with the game and I would not have been misusing my mod powers to move it to the off-topic subforum. But I didn't because at the time the General Forum was at a low point filled with a lot of negativity and these threads were one of the few refuges of positive interaction. (I also hoped that it may subconsciously spark the devs to consider making more story based PvE lol)

The second case involved a member who posted a complaint thread and specifically stated they were refraining from offering their ideas for solutions out of fear that their post would be moved to the Suggestions and Feedback forum. I intervened on this member's behalf, assuring the member the post would not be moved until the topic had been sufficiently discussed. Guess what? Not only did that thread spark three pages worth of discussion but it also inspired another member to start a more concrete effort thread on how to improve the game that went for another three pages and a poll that also went for another three pages. All of which were moved to the Suggestions and Feedback forum once the discussion had finished. No hard feelings, people felt they had the opportunity to express themselves sufficiently, and those posts were placed in the proper section of the forum once everything they felt needed being said was said.

Now I am probably going to take some heat for saying this but I doubt the same thing could have happened had I stuck strictly to the mod guidelines and moved those discussions to Suggestions and Feedback. People keep saying that the lack of activity in the Suggestions and Feedback subforum is a myth but for those of you that believe that I ask you to go check it out right now: None of the threads on the first page go beyond a page, you have a decent amount that haven't received any responses and I am willing to wager that the vast majority of threads that do go beyond a page in that subforum were originally somewhere else and got moved there. (Heck, there is even a suggestion in there that the Suggestion and Feedback become a subforum of General Discussion to give it a better chance at getting viewed).

In my mind, this makes sense: If I want to give the devs direct feedback, I will go to the Suggestion and Feedback forum and tell them. If I want to discuss my ideas about how to improve the game with others, I will post it in the General Discussion section because I want to hear what other people think, not just send the devs a message. As far as I am concerned, people post in the General Discussion because they want to talk about the joys and frustrations about the game they love (or purportedly hate) and when a mod moves, locks or merges a thread we are basically telling them to shut up or that they are mistaken. Now this is where communication is key. If we have a good reason for modding something, most people understand and accept our decision. Of course every now and then you get someone with something to prove and we give sufficient warning both verbal and official if they choose to continue to behave in a manner that is unbecoming before giving them the boot.

What I have been pushing the other mods to do is to exercise more prudence, give users more leeway and to consider the result of their actions from a user perspective. I have stated quite clearly that I am fine giving the General Discussion higher status and treating the subforums more like archives if it fosters healthy discussion and debate and cuts down on feelings of disappointment and discouragement. To be fair, the other mods want to encourage users to use the other subforums and they are not wrong in this pursuit. But I just feel it's not a battle worth fighting because it only increases user tension and I doubt it actually changes user behavior.

Additionally, I am not a fan of merging threads that are active because they become convoluted and difficult to follow. I prefer locking one thread and providing a link to the more active thread if it is on the same topic.

To conclude, in an ideal world people would use the correct subforum and search function to discuss their ideas. But they don't. And since the boundaries of what is considered acceptable in General Discussion are not clearly defined and since it is the most popular section of the forum we will continue to run into this issue. I suppose what you think the best course of action is depends largely on how you would answer the question: What is the General Discussion for?

brisashi

I think mods should be reluctant to move topics out of general discussion and to other areas, despite their compulsion to organize everything to what they feel is the proper place.

The fact is that the general board has a lot more eyes on it, you can have a broader discussion with other players, and being the general discussion board anything related to the game should be acceptable to discuss.

I have often felt that I wasn't allowed to discuss a suggestion or issue with other users because the topic gets whisked off to another less populated board.

Lee T

As far as I'm concned Moderators should never have to enforce structure. Give a few pointers move a thread once in a while is okay, but when it's getting a daily exercise there is a problem.

If moderators need to actively enforce the overall structure of the forum then the problem isn't with people posting in the wrong places it's the structure itself which doesn't work. Have you ever been to a garden where the urbanist thought of nice beatiful stoned ways that end up never being used because people are going through the more natural trails they created by always walking in the same place. Same problem, I bet the urbanist would be pissed at those guys walking on the grass, but it's his fault for designing the wrong pathways. Instead of posting guard at the trails asking to force people to use the "correct" pathways, it's more efficient to lay stones where the trails are.

I'm also not a big fan of merging threads, sometimes two threads might look alike but they do spark diverging conversations. Merge them and you only obtain a garbled mess. It's a bit weird to realise halfway through a thread that some posts seem off because they are actually a different conversation to start with.

Raffoon

I don't have time right now to post too much about this, but I read through the posts here, and my one recommendation is:

Just go back to how it was 2 months before. Obviously something changed, and it's made it a pain to communicate anything.

In my own recent example, I wanted to talk about the fact that the current 5* system leaves everything essentially to chance and many people would never get usable 5*s despite earning lots of legendary tokens, just due to luck. I decided to give the issue a little flair and personality by making up a short tale about a fictional person that this happened to. My post got locked as "flame-bait".

So I made a post that just directly stated those things. That post got locked and I was told that there were already similar discussions going on and that I should read those and post there. I'd already read those threads and the issue was that those discussions were about different, only somewhat related topics. One was about general Legendary token odds, and one was about the effect of 5*s on the game with a focus on PVP/PVE matchmaking/scaling.

I didn't want to talk about those things, I wanted to talk about the way that 5*s were distributed, the outcomes it could lead to for different players, whether those outcomes were desirable, and how things might be improved. Unfortunately, I wasn't allowed to do this because my topics kept getting moderated. Finally I gave it one last shot and specifically explained how I thought that my topic was distinct from those other topics in the post itself. Finally this post was allowed to stand.

I shouldn't have to fight with the moderators to make a thread discussing a game issue in General Discussion. It's a waste of time for everyone and just creates negative feelings. If my thread is too similar to another better or larger thread, then people will respond there and not in my thread. My thread would just die naturally in that case. Or maybe there would be more than one thread about similar subjects..... what's wrong with that if people want to post in them? It's natural that larger and more important issues will garner more threads, and that's fine. If you don't want to read about that issue, don't click on the thread.

It would be great if the mods acted more as guides and less as police. (I guess I did end up writing a lot after all)

Unknown

I agree with Lee above: the structure of the forum is not working. On a well populated forum like this one, all sub forums should be heavily utilized. I frequent a number of big, BIG forums, and have been a moderator on a few of them in the past (when I had more time). They got big for a reason, partially due to lack of reliable options and the right timing, but mostly because of intelligent forum design and moderation.

I think the biggest problem with the MPQ forum is that there is absolutely no incentive to post anywhere but General. The devs are not active enough in responding to other forums to spark interest there, or pull the discussions away from General. The consumers/visitors don't frequent those forums because they're dead, and it creates a vicious cycle/catch22. If I post in General, my post will get traffic and possible red response, but I might not be correctly adhering to the forum structure. And vice versa. This is also coming from someone who makes every attempt to post in the correct subforum, and am not rewarded for doing so. My threads die before they start (although I concede it might be because they suck).

I'm going to make a "totally brazen" suggestion here: eliminate the General forum and consolidate the rest.

I suggest something like this:

News & Announcements
Tips & Guides
Character Discussion
Gameplay Discussion
Events
Communication & Alliances
Suggestions & Feedback (merge with bugs & technical issues and force a tag on each thread, e.g. [bug], [feedback], etc.)

And that's it. Nuke all of the sub-sub-forums (only 3?) and move their threads to the applicable place. Along with this, re-image or highlight the "View New Threads" button. Make it more visible and more desireable to use. This button is the key to everything - it allows people to see new and/or trending topics, and it also transcends the sub-forums. I suggest eliminating results from the Alliances forum as it stands now (unless you increase its scope), but I'm sure that's debatable.

Your forum base is too small to push people all over the place, digging deep into the depths of huge single threads or the bowels of an obscure sub-sub forum. Each main forum should allow for speculation, discussion, griping, statistics, etc.

The Character Discussion sub-forum could probably stand to be re-worked too, but that would likely require some sort of forum tool or planned structure. As it stands, the idea of limiting all discussion to a specific character to a single thread makes sense, but it also further de-incentivizes people to post on the 33rd page of a thread that no one views. Take it in stages though and see if smaller changes make a difference before issuing more (i.e. no heavy handed nerfs).

You moderators do a great job. Everything you do makes sense to me, even if I also understand the responses to it. But make your lives easier. Re-structure the place and encourage people to follow your rules - right now the people who adhere to your design are punished.

GothicKratos

Thanks for the insightful posts, I do really appreciate it.

I'm going to write up some thought out responses later, but I wanted to touch on a few topics just really quickly.

DFiPL: I don't think it's who you think it is.

MuggedZealot: I PMed you regarding your specific issue, so this thread doesn't get too sidetracked.

Raffoon: I haven't decided yet, but I think I'm going to PM you in regards to that whole spiel. That turned out pretty messy and I feel like there's elements outside the issue at hand that influenced that situation.

deiXide: That's the course of action I kind of hope to take. I think we all need to define what we think belongs everywhere and I think we all need to adjust our prospective a little bit.

Thanks again for all the insight guys. I got a lot of input on Line as well and I'm going to be using all of that information to write up a public proposal at some point in the near future (I said earlier that I was going to post to the mods, but I decided it's important for this to be a public discussion).

OneLastGambit

I have an opinion on this subject and as a psychologist and researcher specialising in online social behavior I'm going to offer a professional opinion also.

First my opinion- I've seen many forums in my time and on the whole I find them to be terrible places to socialise, this is partly due to people never reading form rules and ignoring them if they did. Mostly though it's because people ask the same questions time and time again, always without checking to see if it had been asked before. I've seen this type of behavior break even the sturdiest moderator, imagine if you're job was to organise a collection of thoughts and every day someone comes around and ruins that while simultaneously telling you they have every right to do so, I'd find that frustrating. This is the primary function of a mod.

The secondary function is to clear up bad language and abuse, I think most would agree they fulfill the secondary function very well.

I've abandoned two forums In the past due reading the same complaints and posts every day. I would do the same here if the mods were allowing it.

The comments about sub forums not getting the same traction is true, the point of those forums is to place specific questions and ideas not to get lots of views and comments. However as someone who views characters, suggestions, general and events forums I can tell you they are not dead and if your comment or idea is genuinely interesting somebody will comment on it no matter what forum it's in, I've seen it happen.

Now.. My professional opinion - online behavior is vastly different from how people behave in actual life mostly due to a lack of repercussions and also due to the surrealism of a digital medium. People often don't see a name on a screen online as a real person ( inn the same way digital currency is wasted far more readily than actual currency), what I'm saying is before any body posts comments try to remember there is another person with their own thoughts feelings and issues in the other side of that screen. Ask yourself a very simple question "is what I am about to post making this forum better?" if the answer is no then perhaps it doesn't belong in An area where people congregate and is best served as an internal thought.

A professional suggestion for the mods : a sub forum entitled "venting and frustration" whereby posters can post anything they like in whatever language they want with only two caveats 1. It must not be directed at another user, 2. It must be related to the game.

This way people can vent their anger and easily find their posts and responses to their anger (a common behavior for frustrated people is to seek out confirmation that their frustration is valid) in a place which is largely unedited. And nobody will complain it won't get read because it will probably be the busiest sub forum.

That's all for me.

On a personal note, I think the mods do a great job on organising the forum and the mods I have spoken to (malcrof and gothickratos) have both been polite and concise when speaking to me.

stowaway

If I was a moderator of this forum, I would have resigned by now. I appreciate the efforts to make this a better place, but the forum is facing at least two incredibly daunting issues that aren't going to go away.

1) So much of the game discussion has migrated to Line. A lot of the best content has simply gone elsewhere, leaving the worst behind.

2) The free to play business model is essentially "annoy people into spending money." That's not me being cynical, that's really just what the business model is (this game probably more than most). If people ever stop coming to this forum in a surly mood, it will mean the game is dead.

Der_Lex

As someone who has moderated the official forums of another video game franchise for over 7 years now, I can only say that Jamie Madrox had the right mindset when he locked the previous thread: this forum is not a democracy, and as long as the devs are happy with the way you guys moderate this place, it matters tinykitty all what I or any other poster here thinks. If anyone has an official complaint, they can take it up in PM with you guys or the devs, depending on how serious their complaint is. A thread like this, even if meant well, will give the impression that the way you guys enforce the rules set up by the devs is up for discussion, and it really shouldn't be. The devs should be aware enough of their own community to let you guys know if you are too heavy-handed or otherwise need to change your approach.

As for the hyperbolic pearl-clutching of muggedzealot: moderators do not magically lose their right to post their personal opinions when they volunteer for the job. The mods on this forum have a very clear system in place where their font color shows whether they're posting as X the forum user or X the moderator. If you feel a non-moderation post by a mod is out of line, report it like you would any other post. But don't apply some kind of **** double standard to people who are voluntarily spending time and effort to keep this place from becoming a free-for-all mess because you're unable to make that distinction between a normal post and a moderation post.

Unknown

Personally, I never received any forum warning though complain too much.

Many people post things repeated is because they have come to post their hurts the game and not read existing topics.

Other post a discussion already created but as his comment was ignored they create a new topic.

Also has many topics that are pure mess. These days had a guy talking about CP and edited so often the topic seemed another. When reading the first comment you knew nothing of what was happening.

As they said in this discussion, many post in the general discussion content for the other tabs because views. Example: Someone suggest anything new in Feedback and Suggestions and has 12 views. When you enter the tab general discussion is over 100 and numerous comments. In which place the person will post their ideas?

But only notice one thing: If there are many complaints is because the game is bad. Many criticisms are unfounded and want many rewards with little effort. However, most are related to the method used often ineffective in the game. Make the person playing the same node 10-20 to get a 1CP or schedule an event for the player leaves defeated, Galactus 1, shows the design flaw in the game. People want a game to relieve everyday stress and get fun. Certain events also cause more irritation and frustration. Many people just do not give up yet the game because they are passionate about Marvel because the game is very limited.

The worst part is that programmers know that many things are flaws but want to leave the way it is. They do not want out of your comfort zone.

Ram51

Can any of the mods discuss why Snowcatt's previous thread regarding the 4* transition was moved to the Roster and Level Help subforum? There was no mod comment why it was even moved there in the first place.

In the end it was moved back to General Discussion, but I'm bringing this up because for me this was a notable example of a thread being buried away in a place where the community would not be able to see it. It was moved to the subforum of an unrelated subforum for chrissakes! I was not alone in being ticked off by this and other forumites also complained about the move.

GothicKratos

Hey guys, sorry for not getting back sooner. My hard drive went out on me. Hopefully I'll have a new one up and running in about a week. No long winded responses coming for my phone.

Malcrof

Ram51 wrote:

Can any of the mods discuss why Snowcatt's previous thread regarding the 4* transition was moved to the Roster and Level Help subforum? There was no mod comment why it was even moved there in the first place.

In the end it was moved back to General Discussion, but I'm bringing this up because for me this was a notable example of a thread being buried away in a place where the community would not be able to see it. It was moved to the subforum of an unrelated subforum for chrissakes! I was not alone in being ticked off by this and other forumites also complained about the move.

It was moved out, because it was a great thread to help get the Roster and Level help subforum some traction when it was started.

It was moved back, because the OP PM'd me nicely and stated his case for it being in general, and i ended up agreeing.

Side note: the new Roster / Level help subforum is one of the most active gameplay subs, on some days, more active then even character discussion. Great to see people helping others!

OneLastGambit

Malcrof wrote:

Ram51 wrote:

Can any of the mods discuss why Snowcatt's previous thread regarding the 4* transition was moved to the Roster and Level Help subforum? There was no mod comment why it was even moved there in the first place.

In the end it was moved back to General Discussion, but I'm bringing this up because for me this was a notable example of a thread being buried away in a place where the community would not be able to see it. It was moved to the subforum of an unrelated subforum for chrissakes! I was not alone in being ticked off by this and other forumites also complained about the move.

It was moved out, because it was a great thread to help get the Roster and Level help subforum some traction when it was started.

It was moved back, because the OP PM'd me nicely and stated his case for it being in general, and i ended up agreeing.

Side note: the new Roster / Level help subforum is one of the most active gameplay subs, on some days, more active then even character discussion. Great to see people helping others!

I have that forum to thank for finally beating Big Enchilada. A common occurrence now but at the time it seemed impossible.