Heroic Scaling based off characters we cannot use.

Malcrof

So, i was very excited, i had finally maxed my first 2 4*s (hooray!), and yes, i knew my PVE scaling would go up, and in iso-8 for x-23 release, i saw it, but had my full roster including my max 4*s, and breezed through it.

Now heroic event time.. most of my roster is locked out. but my scaling is still that of someone who can use max 4*s, which both of mine are currently locked out., and the ones i have available are undercovered and underleveled.

The Three Amigos, a node that would be hard even with a full roster.. started out scaled higher than max boosted essential 3*s (lvl 271).. i did finish it on the 3rd try..

So, with my roster locked out, why are levels still scaled for characters i can't even use?

TxMoose

interesting. my scaling was through the roof for the x23 release (thank you boosted hb, ss, and oml) but was back down to manageable levels for the heroic. only characters I had maxed in the event were fist and panther - all others 140s down, so that may have helped, but my essentials started in the 120s/130s. they scaled quickly if I won handily but at least they didn't start 160s like they did in the release event.

SirLanik

All PVE events are scaled off rosters as a whole, regardless of who is boosted or is available. Yes, it feels weird for the Heroic events, but they are working and designed as intended. It's meant to be a challenging use of your limited choices/creative team building.

BlackSheep101

Then it is poorly designed, as scaling enemies based on choices the player cannot make is inherently unfair.

Pogo

BlackSheep101 wrote:

Then it is poorly designed, as scaling enemies based on choices the player cannot make is inherently unfair.

Agreed. Even if the stages had fixed difficulty and players were given a stable of loaners-only at fixed levels and prevented from switching to their own versions, it would still do a better job of encouraging "creative team building"

SirLanik

BlackSheep101 wrote:

Then it is poorly designed, as scaling enemies based on choices the player cannot make is inherently unfair.

Then you clearly haven't played enough of the game? The entire game is based off of choices you can't make- who is boosted, who isn't. What covers you open, and don't.

Heroic PVE are supposed to be significantly more challenging than normal PVE, and it's balanced accordingly.

What you are incorrectly assuming here is that scaling to your roster is overtuned- that's incorrect. These are balanced to scale to rosters where people can't use all their heroes. These are SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED to be at a certain difficulty where you can't use all heroes.

So if you ditched all your heroes, yeah you would have an easier time in this one specific PVE, and would struggle in all the rest.

Your belief of poor design is a lack of understanding of the balancing of the missions.

Pogo

SirLanik wrote:

BlackSheep101 wrote:

Then it is poorly designed, as scaling enemies based on choices the player cannot make is inherently unfair.

Then you clearly haven't played enough of the game? The entire game is based off of choices you can't make- who is boosted, who isn't. What covers you open, and don't.

Heroic PVE are supposed to be significantly more challenging than normal PVE, and it's balanced accordingly.

What you are incorrectly assuming here is that scaling to your roster is overtuned- that's incorrect. These are balanced to scale to rosters where people can't use all their heroes. These are SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED to be at a certain difficulty where you can't use all heroes.

So if you ditched all your heroes, yeah you would have an easier time in this one specific PVE, and would struggle in all the rest.

Your belief of poor design is a lack of understanding of the balancing of the missions.

This would almost be reasonable if players were given substantial advance notice of which roster members they were going to be punished just for having.

Saying "hey, you have these powerful characters, but you're not allowed to use them because we want these missions to be challenging" is not the same as saying "hey, you have these powerful characters, so we're gonna scale the difficulty with them in mind (PS you're not allowed to use them)"

Scaling the difficulty up across the board because it's a Heroic event is fine. Locking out characters for an event is fine. Powering up characters is fine. Scaling based on locked-out characters is needlessly unfair and it punishes players for slotting new characters and not keeping their rosters at 100% even levels.

There are multiple factors at work to make the event "more challenging," but the overlap causes problems. It may not be poor "design" per se, but it is poor implementation.

BlackSheep101

SirLanik wrote:

Then you clearly haven't played enough of the game? The entire game is based off of choices you can't make- who is boosted, who isn't. What covers you open, and don't.

That makes so little sense, it's astounding. Did you even read the original post? The problem discussed is pve scaling in an environment with limited rosters.

The game scaling the difficulty based on rosters is fine, otherwise pve would be too easy or too hard for a large population of players. Scaling difficulty based on characters you can't use is inherently unfair and akin to scaling based on characters you sold off or never recruited.