Red Hulk vs. Ice-Man best green? Answer may suprise

Phaserhawk

I keep seeing people say, Red Hulk's green isn't as good as Ice-Man. I'm here to tell you that that is not true. Here goes people.

Straight up nothing else, Hulk's green always does 2789 and Iceman always does 3041 if Doom just deplted the board of blue. However lets look at their max.

Red Hulk--7333 Aoe
Iceman----7076 Aoe

Now, Iceman's green is easier to set up and get closer to the max than Hulk's, but it does cost more. The only way you will ever get IceMan's to get up to max is that you have to have a Cold as Ice precede it to get close to the 15 blue. In order for that to happen you need.

4 matches of 3 green
3 matches of 3 purple

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7 matches total for 7076 AoE

RedHulk is either 2789 or 7333 with no inbetween. It is also much harder to deny redhulk as his cost lower and he has 2 ways of getting to 9 green. However for max to happen you need

4 matches of 3 green--12AP
3 matches of 3 pruple

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7 matches total, you then go Gamma Siphon into Hammer and Anvil.

If you go max boost for them then it is as followed

Iceman
3 matches of 3 green
2 matches of 3 purple

RedHulk
3 matches of 3 green
1 match of 3 purple or any match 4 that has a single purple in it.

As you can see in any example, Red Hulk is either the same speed or faster than IceMan to get to max green dmg. While Iceman' will do more damage on average on any one single use, as you can usually count on have 9 blue on the board, you then only need 4 match 3 green for about 5400 AoE so in terms of the AI going off, you are going to see more one use dmg from Iceman, but, two Hammer and Anvil equals 1 of those, and with Siphon costing 7 to get you 7 green and Hammer and Anvil only costing 9, you are going to be eating more smaller AoE's from Hulk than you will from IceMan.

In short, Red Hulk has the better AoE, and the bigger body. Ice-Man's strength is that he also has a single target nuke as well thus why you can argue IceMan is better than Red Hulk, but AoE's I think Red Hulk has the Iceman in both speed of getting to one and more overall dmg when used by the player.

notamutant

Well, taking the fact that the AI will almost never play Red Hulk correctly, that significantly hurts his usefulness. I always skip Iceman due to the fear of him stunning my high damage hitters. Red Hulk, I just don't bring a big green user, and he can't stop me and will almost never save up enough green to use the higher powered green skill.

You can't just pick one skill of a character and forget the rest of its skills. Iceman as a whole is far better.

simonsez

I defended RH's green in his thread, but I can't sign off on this analysis. You're placing too much emphasis on getting Iceman to max. That's not necessary. Just look at what he'll do on an average (9 blue) board; 5462 for 12 ap. RH will do 7333 for 18 ap. Close, but not as good. It helps that RH can accelerate into it, but with Iceman you get stun and a 2nd nuke.

Phaserhawk

simonsez wrote:

I defended RH's green in his thread, but I can't sign off on this analysis. You're placing too much emphasis on getting Iceman to max. That's not necessary. Just look at what he'll do on an average (9 blue) board; 5462 for 12 ap. RH will do 7333 for 18 ap. Close, but not as good. It helps that RH can accelerate into it, but with Iceman you get stun and a 2nd nuke.

I'm not saying Red Hulk is better, far be it, I'm saying raw power Hulk's green is better than IceMan's. And in SQ PvP I went up against a couple of Max Red Hulk teams and every time ate 1 if not 2 green's per match, against Iceman I rarely get hit by one because he's quick to gun down, not so against Red Hulk.

Do I think Red Hulk is better than Iceman? No, never said he was, but I do think Hulk has the better AoE even if it goes off with less than 18AP Hulk can very quickly get 2 of these to go off because trying to deny him both green and purple is impossible, it's likely trying to deny IF purple, it's hard, and when the guy has 19K hitpoints unless you stun him, you will be hard pressed to not take one, especially if there is another threat like say a Hulkbuster as his partner, you are eiether eating a green AoE or a red repulsor. Honestly the only knock on Iceman is that you can take him down fairly quickly if you focus him hard, you cannot with Red Hulk.

I don't think Red Hulk is a top 3 character in 4* land, but he might crack the top 5

GrumpySmurf1002

Not that many matches can withstand 7k AoE damage and keep going, but it's worth noting that RHulk's AoE is not just 18 green, but also 19, 20, 21, etc... In order to get full value for the comparison, you need exactly 18 green.

More to the point, 24 green gets you up to 14k with Iceman, it still gets you 7k with Rulk.

One other thing which I've seen but worth noting. While the AI is dumb, if it casts the skill at 9AP twice, it does 5578 instead of 7333. Decent difference, but not devastating. And more importantly, casting it at 12 doesn't drain the AP, so it might actually be beneficial long term (but matches aren't long enough to see the benefit necessarily).

Phaserhawk

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Not that many matches can withstand 7k AoE damage and keep going, but it's worth noting that RHulk's AoE is not just 18 green, but also 19, 20, 21, etc... In order to get full value for the comparison, you need exactly 18 green.

More to the point, 24 green gets you up to 14k with Iceman, it still gets you 7k with Rulk.

One other thing which I've seen but worth noting. While the AI is dumb, if it casts the skill at 9AP twice, it does 5578 instead of 7333. Decent difference, but not devastating. And more importantly, casting it at 12 doesn't drain the AP, so it might actually be beneficial long term (but matches aren't long enough to see the benefit necessarily).

The times Iceman has hit me, it hurt, and it averages about 5000-6000. With the 11 matches I've faced off against a fully covered red Hulk, I avoided the green in 7 of the matches, of the 4 times I didn't, I ate two of them in one match 3 of those four. The reason being, it's not hard for the AI to get 9, I mean how many times does Hulkbuster get Overdrive off even when you are denying black? And if the Hulk gets to 11, uses 9, and then hits you with a purple, you are taking another one and that's how it happened for me. 2 of the three it was a green solo, followed by a purple into green. the 3rd was the opposite, it was a purple into green, then a green match 4 into another green. Where he isn't as good as Iceman is that he is all about getting to green, via red or purple, the goal is to just create havoc and smash, with iceman you can just dominate a game by locking everything down, controlling the board and then just smashing face. Iceman is tops, overall, but when it comes to getting that AoE off, Hulk is going to get his more than Iceman when going against the AI, and he is probably going to do it more than once

GrumpySmurf1002

Phaserhawk wrote:

The reason being, it's not hard for the AI to get 9, I mean how many times does Hulkbuster get Overdrive off even when you are denying black?

Not many? Better comparison for me is Patch with his stupid 9 green. I'm certain it goes off against me way more than average.

Anyhoo....I definitely underrated him to start. I'm still convinced his red is Passive: Does nothing, but the green drain even at 1 cover is pretty vicious, and yeah, his green hurts. But I'd still take Iceman's green first.

Phaserhawk

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

The reason being, it's not hard for the AI to get 9, I mean how many times does Hulkbuster get Overdrive off even when you are denying black?

Not many? Better comparison for me is Patch with his stupid 9 green. I'm certain it goes off against me way more than average.

Anyhoo....I definitely underrated him to start. I'm still convinced his red is Passive: Does nothing, but the green drain even at 1 cover is pretty vicious, and yeah, his green hurts. But I'd still take Iceman's green first.

You too? I swear Patch AI cheats when you aren't looking

Unknown

For me it's that **** Mohawk Storm Black. Gets me every time.

Phaserhawk

WolfmanX25 wrote:

For me it's that tinykitty Mohawk Storm Black. Gets me every time.

I thought it just got changed to a passive where it goes off every 4 turns