Please bring back 1000 4* & 1300 4* PVP progression reward!

Feedthebeast

I really felt like I was progressing at a decent rate when we had 4* rewards at 1000 amd 1300. Now with legendary tokens at 1300 and with 20 4 stars, it will take forever to fully cover a certain 4 chracter. The reason why im saying this is because last 2 pvp seasons ago, only 3 1000 progression was useable, the rest like IW, 4thor, xforce rewards most people have. And legendary pulls, they are a joke! gotten 31 tokens, no 5* and most of them were duplicates of what I already have. Its already a pain in the you know what to reach 1300 and to pull a non useable cover that I feel I worked pretty hard for is demoralizing. Maybe bring back 4* cover at 1000 and 1300 and have legendary tokens at 1400 or 1500? I dont know but just a though but please do something, I dont want to give up on this game just yet. if you pick any 4* toon, how long will it take to fully cover that toon? 8 months? 1 year? 2 years?

BlackSheep101

That's a little harshly put, but I don't disagree.

To the OP: what about the people who are ready to move on to 5* land? Changing the 1300 prize to a 4* cover removes another avenue they have to acquire 5* covers.

Eddiemon

Feedthebeast wrote:

I really felt like I was progressing at a decent rate when we had 4* rewards at 1000 amd 1300. Now with legendary tokens at 1300 and with 20 4 stars, it will take forever to fully cover a certain 4 chracter. The reason why im saying this is because last 2 pvp seasons ago, only 3 1000 progression was useable, the rest like IW, 4thor, xforce rewards most people have. And legendary pulls, they are a joke! gotten 31 tokens, no 5* and most of them were duplicates of what I already have. Its already a pain in the you know what to reach 1300 and to pull a non useable cover that I feel I worked pretty hard for is demoralizing. Maybe bring back 4* cover at 1000 and 1300 and have legendary tokens at 1400 or 1500? I dont know but just a though but please do something, I dont want to give up on this game just yet. if you pick any 4* toon, how long will it take to fully cover that toon? 8 months? 1 year? 2 years?

It would help if your post had some kind of logic underpinning it.

Hey please replace the random 4* at 1300 with a random 4* at 1300?

You don't need covers for some 4*s, how terrible. A legendary means you can get a cover for another 4* whereas a 1300 4* you already have means no progress for you this week.

If you pick any 4* toon and you replace legendaries with 4* covers the time to fully cover them is reduced by 11%. That doesn't reduce your 8 months, 1 year, 2 years by any significant amount.

Maybe if you had a rational request people might pay more attention but this is just dumb. You have a problem, but your solution doesn't address the problem or have any meaningful impact on it.

SangFroid

I think having a fixed 4* at 1300 would do way more harm than good. Having a mystery token at 1300 AT LEAST gives you the chance of something awesome (needed 4* or 5*) every PVP. If you run a PVP with XF at 1K and IW at 1.3K what do you think the results would be??? D3 needs people playing the game and spending money and this gives EVERY player in the game a chance to get something that can (whether it is or not is irrelevant) be useful for them and therefore a reason to play and shield up to 1300.

TxMoose

considering the hp needed for hopping to get to 1300, I'm not a fan of a token there. spending the 500-700 hp needed to end up with Elektra, IW, or MFer (most of my recent pulls) is completely not worth it. now that I can do it when I choose, I'm much less compelled to do so. i would consider it worth it for about half of the characters out there (so, about 10), and of those, probably 2/3 of their covers would be worth it (and i have 2 of those already at 5 - xf black and hb red). so i consider about 20 covers of the ~60 4* covers in the game worth the expense (but for me, only 18 of 60 are worth it) and those aren't great odds, especially when the tokens seem to be leaning heavily toward IW and Elektra for everyone. IW and Elektra seem to be the 4* versions of mostorm and moonstone.

SnowcaTT

The solution isn't to put a specific cover at 1300. That number is going to continue to get harder and harder to get as more get the 4* weekly boosted characters maxed - you'll have to have those 4*'s to have a legitimate chance pretty soon.

The solution is actual 4* transition. 3* PVP needs to give 4* rewards to top 100 alliances, as well as individual rewards. Create new PVP that includes 4*, let those reward legendary tokens for individuals and alliances so 4* has a better chance to transition to 5*.

Malcrof

The game is ever changing.. for a long time 3*s were vaulted, and hard to get... now, they are everywhere, with DDQ etc..., then no-one thought they would make 4*s more attainable.. or ever be added to PVE, then we got the legendary tokens and more rewards in PVE.. then people wanted more ways to get tokens..so they added 4* DDQ and season progression...

the 4* transition is a real thing now, changes are coming, Hi-Fi says new content is being tested (yay for testing!) .. so just hold out. By this time next year, all these threads are going to be about how to obtain more 5*s.

They are not deaf to our cries, but as a programmer, you cannot just say "oh look, they want that" and POOF.. it can take quite a bit of time adding and changing content, testing it, and eventually releasing it. At my work, we get feedback emails daily, replies are not usually given unless it is a bug report. but we do store the good ideas for later consideration..

What we need are NEW suggestions, not the same ones over and over and over and over and over.. and we need them in the right place so they can be seen.

ok done rambling..

mohio

Eddiemon wrote:

If you pick any 4* toon and you replace legendaries with 4* covers the time to fully cover them is reduced by 11%.

I'm earnestly confused by this statement. You chastise the OP for not providing any numbers, but where did you get this number from? If they put back the cover at 1300 exactly as it was before, that means each cycle through rewards you get 2 covers instead of 1. How much this will reduce the time it takes to cover the character is going to vary a lot by how many covers you got in the release PvE (and how lucky you are in pulling covers from tokens). I'll give you one quick example...

top 2 PvE, alliance top 100 - started with 5 covers, get 1 in release PvP. Now need 7. If we assume there's a 1300 cover immediately after the 1000 cover (I don't think it usually did this but whatever), then we need 6 to fully cover. At 1 per cycle (this wouldn't have the 1300 cover so we'll say you get one from simulator progression or a lucky pull or something), that's 6 cycles. At 20 current characters that's 120 events. With a new character released about every 6 events. That's 20 new characters over that time frame. That increases things by at least 20, since they will have their own release PvPs. Then increasing the cycle time by 1 after they're introduced into the cycle, so easily another 60 there. So, it will take at least 200 events to fully cover your character from the 1k covers only. It would be pretty bad odds to not get any covers from legendary tokens over this time frame, we're talking well over a year's worth of events (67 weeks!).

Adding back the 1300 cover in this case actually more than halves the time needed to cover the character. Now those 6 covers can be had in just 3 cycles of events. That's "only" 60 events, and now only 10 extra characters will be released, increasing the number of events needed by maybe 30 from the 10 initial PvPs plus extra events from characters being added to the cycle, so total of just 90 events (still 30 weeks!) instead of 200+.

Doing this math is getting me a little depressed about the state of the game and the kind of progression I can expect to have. Honestly at this point you're better off just getting to 1k and either not shielding or only shielding in the last 3 hours. Save as much HP as you possibly can and buy the covers you really need. My Jean is sitting at 2/2/5. Thankfully there should be a purple in the next event, but after that I will still need 2 purples. I better hope to get lucky (which is how I covered the green in all fairness, one or two token pulls), because it'll be a full 6 cycles through the rewards before I can expect to see purple come up twice. As outlined above, that's well over a year...for 2 measly covers...

Does a year of 1k rewards seem at all reasonable to wait for finishing off just 2 missing covers?

4* placement rewards cannot come soon enough imo.

PLBIV

I agree with this 1000%. The 4* cover at 1300 is not "some random token". It's a known entity that you can chase which may be something worth chasing. Given how much HP I have to expend to get to 1300 (currently a 3-8-3-8 # schedule), and the fact that a legendary token will only give me something I need about 35% of the time, I have no incentive to go after the token. However, if I know 35% of the time I will get a known cover that I covet, I can plan out my HP usage accordingly, chasing only those that I need. The cost of growing my 4* characters is greatly reduced and the overall experience is far more gratifying. They call the lottery the Stupid Tax for a reason. Leg Tokens are nothing but lottery tickets.

itstime1234

PLBIV wrote:

I agree with this 1000%. The 4* cover at 1300 is not "some random token". It's a known entity that you can chase which may be something worth chasing. Given how much HP I have to expend to get to 1300 (currently a 3-8-3-8 # schedule), and the fact that a legendary token will only give me something I need about 35% of the time, I have no incentive to go after the token. However, if I know 35% of the time I will get a known cover that I covet, I can plan out my HP usage accordingly, chasing only those that I need. The cost of growing my 4* characters is greatly reduced and the overall experience is far more gratifying. They call the lottery the Stupid Tax for a reason. Leg Tokens are nothing but lottery tickets.

So in essence it isn't speeding anything up, just saving hp since you do not have to go for every 1300 prize, whereas when its a lottery, you want more tokens so that you get something useful.

OP is saying it is slowing the process down, statically speaking, it isn't doing that, it just means you need to chase 1300 much more.

Eddiemon

mohio wrote:

Eddiemon wrote:

If you pick any 4* toon and you replace legendaries with 4* covers the time to fully cover them is reduced by 11%.

I'm earnestly confused by this statement. You chastise the OP for not providing any numbers, but where did you get this number from? If they put back the cover at 1300 exactly as it was before, that means each cycle through rewards you get 2 covers instead of 1. How much this will reduce the time it takes to cover the character is going to vary a lot by how many covers you got in the release PvE (and how lucky you are in pulling covers from tokens). I'll give you one quick example...

Legendaries have a 10% chance of a 5*. So 10 legendaries at 1300 should net you 9 4*s while 10 4* rewards will net you 10 4*s.

I chose to express that as getting 10/9 4* covers using the fixed system, which is an 11% advantage over 9/9 covers using the legendary system.

Admittedly it's only based on 1300 pvp rewards and not on any other sources, but that's what the OP's rant was based upon.

mohio

itstime1234 wrote:

PLBIV wrote:

I agree with this 1000%. The 4* cover at 1300 is not "some random token". It's a known entity that you can chase which may be something worth chasing. Given how much HP I have to expend to get to 1300 (currently a 3-8-3-8 # schedule), and the fact that a legendary token will only give me something I need about 35% of the time, I have no incentive to go after the token. However, if I know 35% of the time I will get a known cover that I covet, I can plan out my HP usage accordingly, chasing only those that I need. The cost of growing my 4* characters is greatly reduced and the overall experience is far more gratifying. They call the lottery the Stupid Tax for a reason. Leg Tokens are nothing but lottery tickets.

So in essence it isn't speeding anything up, just saving hp since you do not have to go for every 1300 prize, whereas when its a lottery, you want more tokens so that you get something useful.

OP is saying it is slowing the process down, statically speaking, it isn't doing that, it just means you need to chase 1300 much more.

You are technically correct, but to illustrate why many would prefer the cover and not the token at 1300 I'll continue the gambling analogy. There is a bit too much math involved for my level of laziness right this minute, so I'm not going to go 100% accurate here, just a caveat.

Let's say the expected value of a single token is 50. We'll call something you have maxed 0, and something that you need and is amazing 100 (HB red, black, JG purp, green, etc.). There are various other values strewn throughout because you might "need" that last IW green, but it's not gonna suddenly make her any good. Similarly with Elektra, Star Lord, etc. Sure those covers aren't worthless, but their value is severely diminished (you wouldn't spend a bunch of HP hopping to 1300 for a missing Elektra or Star Lord, but you might for a Kingpin, or Ant-Man or Thing, etc). Anyway - "statistics" say you get your 50 average value and cover your guys at the same rate you would otherwise. However, actual math will show that you actually need way more tokens to actually cover the characters you want than the statistical average. Sure there will be guys that pull those 100-value covers over and over and over and manage to fully cover their Jeans, and Bobbys, and RHulks in no time at all. But there will be just as many that pull nothing but IW, Star Lord, Fury, and Xforce covers they've had maxed for over a year.

Some people just don't enjoy the gambling nature of tokens, and would prefer the predictable nature of guaranteed covers, even if it means they have fewer shots at 5* or could possibly be covering their characters slower. So - OP might be incorrect that the token will slow down progression, but it absolutely will slow it down FOR SOME PEOPLE, but it will also speed it up for some people. Statistically that is a wash, but realistically, people don't want to be the guy it slows down, so they prefer the known, average speed.

firethorne

Malcrof wrote:

The game is ever changing.. for a long time 3*s were vaulted, and hard to get... now, they are everywhere, with DDQ etc..., then no-one thought they would make 4*s more attainable.. or ever be added to PVE, then we got the legendary tokens and more rewards in PVE.. then people wanted more ways to get tokens..so they added 4* DDQ and season progression...

the 4* transition is a real thing now, changes are coming, Hi-Fi says new content is being tested (yay for testing!) .. so just hold out. By this time next year, all these threads are going to be about how to obtain more 5*s.

They are not deaf to our cries, but as a programmer, you cannot just say "oh look, they want that" and POOF.. it can take quite a bit of time adding and changing content, testing it, and eventually releasing it. At my work, we get feedback emails daily, replies are not usually given unless it is a bug report. but we do store the good ideas for later consideration..

What we need are NEW suggestions, not the same ones over and over and over and over and over.. and we need them in the right place so they can be seen.

ok done rambling..

"Promises are like crying babies in a theater, they should be carried out at once. " -Norman Vincent Peale

I can appreciate development takes time, but the natives are getting restless. Some people feel like they aren't making a lot of progress, and the game is starting to feel more stagnant. The anniversary absolutely left me feeling like mid and low level players having fun isn't a priority.

As for suggestions, what exactly are you looking for? If you aren't interested in the most constant suggestions, that are repeated over and over, what are you looking for? Perhaps some examples or questions about problems you are interested in working on are in order.

Stax the Foyer

itstime1234 wrote:

PLBIV wrote:

I agree with this 1000%. The 4* cover at 1300 is not "some random token". It's a known entity that you can chase which may be something worth chasing. Given how much HP I have to expend to get to 1300 (currently a 3-8-3-8 # schedule), and the fact that a legendary token will only give me something I need about 35% of the time, I have no incentive to go after the token. However, if I know 35% of the time I will get a known cover that I covet, I can plan out my HP usage accordingly, chasing only those that I need. The cost of growing my 4* characters is greatly reduced and the overall experience is far more gratifying. They call the lottery the Stupid Tax for a reason. Leg Tokens are nothing but lottery tickets.

So in essence it isn't speeding anything up, just saving hp since you do not have to go for every 1300 prize, whereas when its a lottery, you want more tokens so that you get something useful.

OP is saying it is slowing the process down, statically speaking, it isn't doing that, it just means you need to chase 1300 much more.

For some people, it is. For some people, it isn't. That's the nature of a random distribution. You can chase every single legendary token and still never get a particular cover. You can get the cover you need on the first token you open.

Some people get lucky, and some are up a creek. Focusing on the average result gives us responses like we got to the Anniversary week issues. For about half of the playerbase, it's an unsatisfying response, and even the people on the lucky side of the distribution curve don't feel lucky, because developing your 4*s is plenty slow as is and getting slower.

It took away some level of certainty and control that was previously there. That's a big part of the reason why it's getting the response that it is.

JVReal

People seem to value the Legendary Token less than the developers originally intended, because those that can reach it at 1300 don't really need all the 4* that it will be more likely to generate, yet it is being valued by the Dev's for the potential of a 5*.

Pushing it to 1400 as the OP mentioned in his post in order to replace 1000 and 1300 with specific 4* covers doesn't solve the problem, because now people need to push higher to get the token that isn't valued at that many points.

I suppose a more apt solution would be swapping them, putting the Legendary token at 1000, and then a pre-determined 4* at 1300, that way people actually can decide if the extra push to 1300 is worth the effort. That means more Legendary tokens being given away, but less player frustration. I only seldom hit 1k, and since the events that I do hit 1K in are determined by who the featured/boosted characters are, I would prefer a Legendary at 1K and have a shot at a 4* I need instead of the 6th Blue Fury that happened to be the 1K reward for the one PVP that I happen to have a chance of hitting 1K in. In my situation I have most of the 4*, but none of them cover maxed, Blue Fury being the only cover that is currently maxed, I would rather have that lottery than a specific cover.

1300 is out of reach for me currently.

Dragon_Nexus

Malcrof wrote:

What we need are NEW suggestions, not the same ones over and over and over and over and over.. and we need them in the right place so they can be seen.

ok done rambling..

Okay...make new PvE?
Darn it, that's an old suggestion.

Still though, doesn't have to function differently, just some new stories would be nice. That can't be too hard, right? ;.;

Tannen

You know what would really make the 4* transition go faster?

Bring on the 4* pvps with the following rewards

- 1 x 5* cover for 1st place.
- 3 x 4* covers for up to 5th place.
- 2 x 4* covers for up to 20th place.
- 1 x 4* cover for up to 50th place.

I'm waiting, I suspect that they're coming.