Please make Legendary tokens less random.

Pylgrim

I just opened my 6th Legendary Token. Each of them has necessitated lots of time, efforts and resources (in the shape of Health Packs and boosts) but I think that they are at the right difficulty level. "Legendary" stuff should be hard to get. However... when it comes to open them... I know everybody's experiences are different but from my 6 packs, I have got only 1, ONE cover that I could use. The clincher? I only have 11 (out of the 51 existing) 4* covers maxed to where I want them; that's less than a fourth, almost a fifth!

Yeah, yeah, bad luck, that's how odds and statistics work, whatever. The point is that it is a MASSIVE disappointment. In game-design lingo, a "feel bad" moment. Invested players that work so hard to achieve the loftier goals you place should have the chances of feeling this bad reduced to a minimum.

Thankfully there is an already in-built system that could greatly reduce these feel-bad moments without entirely removing it (so the "gamble" feeling is still there for those who enjoy such things). I'm talking of the Vault. A Legendary Token Vault could have only 20 items (one of which being a 5* so it remains at 0.5% odds) and could rotate every 5 days (along with each iteration of 4* DDQ). That way, if I see that a particular vault has mostly X-Forces and IWs, I could save my precious token for another vault rotation where I'd have better chances of drawing one of my many other woefully covered 4*s.

OneLastGambit

I understand your frustration but that's just part of the game, I open every legendary token that I pull and now have all my 4* characters with two covers, it would be nicer to have all 8 of my covers on one character but that's just the way it is. Getting 3 * characters is going very much the same way, it's not just the legendary tokens that do it. Example every hulk token I pull it's red or green, neither of which I need.

Pylgrim

OneLastGambit wrote:

I understand your frustration but that's just part of the game, I open every legendary token that I pull and now have all my 4* characters with two covers, it would be nicer to have all 8 of my covers on one character but that's just the way it is. Getting 3 * characters is going very much the same way, it's not just the legendary tokens that do it. Example every hulk token I pull it's red or green, neither of which I need.

No. Getting the 3* covers that you need is a much more surefire thing: You can get up to 3 of a particular when a PVE or PVP event rewarding that character comes. There are TONS of 3* covers being given as progression rewards where you know exactly which ones you get and play accordingly. DDQ allows you to get one particular 3* cover each day, and they rotate so you can exactly predict when you will be able to get again that exact cover. Normal vaults let you see when you have a good chance of opening 3* covers that you don't have, etc. On the other hand, the only 4* covers given away in a way that lets you plan ahead are those granted at 1k points in PVP, and maybe top 1-2 placement in events. That's all. Legendary Tokens which were created to help 3*-4* progression should be less random.

thisone

The tokens are working as intended. They've said a new game play method for gaining 4* is in the works, hopefully it's unveiled during anniversary week.

You'd never cover your 3* just with tokens these days there's too many to pull, pve, pvp and ddq are the real meat and potatoes of gaining covers.

The bottom line is that eventually we will all be bummed out by not pulling the 5* from legendary. What hulkbuster again?!? Ugh!

That being said. Having vaults for legendary tokens absolutely makes sense and I think it's something that should be thought about. I believe every event should just have a vault tbh.

Druss

They are NOT random.

I have opened 10 Legendary tokens.

I need EVERY 4* except IW + Fury + XF. I also have 4hor fully covered but not optimally.

I have received:

4 IW
3 XF
1 Fury
1 4hor

With 17 4* available (excluding Dino but adding SS) the odds against me receiving 9/10 useless covers is astronomically small. (feel free to work it out - I expect its well over a million to 1)

Unknown

Quick get a reply in before the threads moved to feedback and suggestions!

A 20 item vault would be cool, but it's highly unlikey to happen. If we ask for something more realistic like a 100 item vault you might have a shot at getting it, but otherwise if they implement it it's probably going to be a 300 item vault again. Not going to give you much of a statistical improvement of getting what you want.

Druss

Would actually be interested if this could be worked out:

Is it 4/17 to the power of 9 divided by 13/17 (for the 1 cover I needed)?

(dividing the 13/17 as multiplying by a fraction would make the odds smaller - not sure if this is correct?)

Been 30 odd years since I needed a scientific calculator - anyone able to work it out?

Unknown

Druss wrote:

Would actually be interested if this could be worked out:

Is it 4/17 to the power of 9 divided by 13/17 (for the 1 cover I needed)?

(dividing the 13/17 as multiplying by a fraction would make the odds smaller - not sure if this is correct?)

Been 30 odd years since I needed a scientific calculator - anyone able to work it out?

I believe it was approximately .008% but now that Mr F and Iceman are available chance of this happening has dropped to .0022%

edit: trying to further explain the logic. For the first one I've done 10*(0.95*(4/14))^9 as you've opened 10 tokens there and you only had 1 wanted cover there are ten places in the sequence where the wanted cover could have fallen. This however would be the chance of getting at least 9 unwanted covers from 10 tokens. I'm not 100% sure of the logic here as I'm being lazy.

Second one I did slightly differently as the rate of 5.9% is published on the token odds: 10*(4*0.059)^9

For simplicity I've ignored the fact there is one 4*Thor cover you needed. Think you just need to multiply these answers by 11/12 to account for the one Thor cover you needed though.

Dayv

Grantosium wrote:

Quick get a reply in before the threads moved to feedback and suggestions!

Moved to Feedback and Suggestions.

The devs actually do read the posts in this forum, they just have a policy of not responding here.

Not speaking as a moderator, I think the main reason why they don't reply here is fairly obvious. They don't want to give the impression that they're guaranteeing anything they comment favorably on is certain to happen, and even if it did, it might not happen in the way players think, or on a timeline players would be happy knowing about in advance. The more complex a change is, the longer and harder it is to implement, and players aren't terribly patient in general.

Square

Druss wrote:

They are NOT random.

I have opened 10 Legendary tokens.

I need EVERY 4* except IW + Fury + XF. I also have 4hor fully covered but not optimally.

<snip>

I'm sorry to have to contradict your narrative, but...
I have six 4*s covered as I want: 4hor, Carnage, HB, NF, XF and IW, plus a few that are really close. I've been lucky I guess, but about 8/10 covers or so gave me stuff I needed. Two SS and a bunch of newer 4*'s. The two I didn't need were a HB (finished) and a DP red (5 red, 0 purple).

I'm on the fence about the current direction. The degree to which people whaled Iceman, the way D3 let some people combine accounts that was a sort of 'virtual whale' in that they had a full 4* overnight, and the fact that fully powered SS are now in effect; those things are a massive turn off.

The legendary tokens have done a lot for me in just the few weeks they've been out, and for others, I'm sure. I'm still really uncomfortable that maxed SS are out there, but I can say that if the 5*s weren't involved, I would be totally fine with them.

Pylgrim

thisone wrote:

The tokens are working as intended. They've said a new game play method for gaining 4* is in the works, hopefully it's unveiled during anniversary week.

You'd never cover your 3* just with tokens these days there's too many to pull, pve, pvp and ddq are the real meat and potatoes of gaining covers.

The bottom line is that eventually we will all be bummed out by not pulling the 5* from legendary. What hulkbuster again?!? Ugh!

That being said. Having vaults for legendary tokens absolutely makes sense and I think it's something that should be thought about. I believe every event should just have a vault tbh.

Problem is, that if tokens' randomness is not helping me progress, my progress will be dictated by the other 4* acquisition venues (including the promised one that you mention) and not by tokens! Tokens will always be superfluous and will become more so the more covers I get in other ways. This would be ok if Legendary tokens had anywhere near the kind of flow that heroic and similar tokens have. You get several of those per day in average and never expect anything from them, so when you happen to open good stuff is a nice surprise. Legendary tokens are extremely rare and difficult to obtain so they shouldn't have the same kind of behaviour.

DayvBang wrote:

Grantosium wrote:

Quick get a reply in before the threads moved to feedback and suggestions!

Moved to Feedback and Suggestions.

The devs actually do read the posts in this forum, they just have a policy of not responding here.

Not speaking as a moderator, I think the main reason why they don't reply here is fairly obvious. They don't want to give the impression that they're guaranteeing anything they comment favorably on is certain to happen, and even if it did, it might not happen in the way players think, or on a timeline players would be happy knowing about in advance. The more complex a change is, the longer and harder it is to implement, and players aren't terribly patient in general.

*sigh* The problem when you move stuff like this to this comparatively barren subforum is that it never gains traction and devs (if they actually read this, which we don't know since we don't ever hear feedback) can happily assume that this is a minor annoyance to only one particular chump, and disregard it. The sad thing is that if instead of making a polite case and offering a suggestion to fix it, I had worded it as an annoyed complaint with a title like "I'm so tired of this ****" and content that rallied people's dissatisfaction at this issue, the thread would have been left to fester and grow to dozens of pages in the General Discussion subforum like most of that kind of threads do. And then, maybe, a dev would have popped up and offered some insight on the matter.

All this does is training your good users to act poorly.

Quebbster

Druss wrote:

They are NOT random.

I have opened 10 Legendary tokens.

I need EVERY 4* except IW + Fury + XF. I also have 4hor fully covered but not optimally.

I have received:

4 IW
3 XF
1 Fury
1 4hor

With 17 4* available (excluding Dino but adding SS) the odds against me receiving 9/10 useless covers is astronomically small. (feel free to work it out - I expect its well over a million to 1)

Don't you know million-to-one chances come true nine times out of ten?

OneLastGambit

Here's your error....

Random chance means that any and all possible sequences have an equal chance of occurring. the chances of a different cover falling every time is equally likely as the exact same cover falling every time in a system of random chance. A common problem on these forums is the posters inability to comprehend what random chance actually means, it does not mean different every time as commonly (mis)accepted. it means any sequence (no matter how unlikely it seems) has an equal chance of happening.

So you so the legendary token pulls ARE random.

I am Scourge

I concur with the OP's frustration. I have had Wolvie, Thor and Fury fully covered for months now. Wolvie and Thor are also fully leveled. I have opened 6 legendary tokens so far and 4 out 6 have been, you guessed it, Wolvie and Thor. With 13 other 4 *'s and SS out there it has been incredibly disappointing. Nothing worse than spending a week to get token inPvE just for it to be for a character you don't want or need.

A member of my alliance just opened her first token and she has 5 purple Nick Fury covers. Literally the only color of all her 4* characters fully covered and guess what her token was? Again you guessed it, Nick Fury purple. Conspiracy?

Pylgrim

OneLastGambit wrote:

Here's your error....

Random chance means that any and all possible sequences have an equal chance of occurring. the chances of a different cover falling every time is equally likely as the exact same cover falling every time in a system of random chance. A common problem on these forums is the posters inability to comprehend what random chance actually means, it does not mean different every time as commonly (mis)accepted. it means any sequence (no matter how unlikely it seems) has an equal chance of happening.

So you so the legendary token pulls ARE random.

You are the one not understanding my point. I did say in the OP that I completely understand how randomness works and how I know I'm a case, rather than the norm. My point is that with millions of players playing this game, cases like mine can easily number thousands (we've seen a few in this thread). That's thousands of people who work really hard just to get a slap of massive disappointment right in the face. That is not right, and it's something easily fixed without throwing too many wrenches into the already existing machinery.