Silver Surfer / MMR question...

Unknown

I currently have my entire roster capped at 131 for MMR purposes. If I were lucky enough to recruit a SS, would his starting level of 255 completely undo my MMR??

Tannen

No. MMR -- Match Making Rating -- for PVP wouldn't be affected by simple roster changes like recruiting a new character. However, if you took that new character and murdered everyone with it, your MMR would potentially change, as you're now punching waaaaaaay above your regular level.

So although the two things can look like they're directly related, they're not really.

Also, stop artificially limiting yourself in pvp, you'll catch more covers with a good solid team of 166's.

dr tinykittylove

Tannen wrote:

No. MMR -- Match Making Rating -- for PVP wouldn't be affected by simple roster changes like recruiting a new character. However, if you took that new character and murdered everyone with it, your MMR would potentially change, as you're now punching waaaaaaay above your regular level.

So although the two things can look like they're directly related, they're not really.

Also, stop artificially limiting yourself in pvp, you'll catch more covers with a good solid team of 166's.

You're talking about scaling. Mmr is roster dependant. You get matched with teams of a similar level. So I see mainly 3*, some transitioners and boosted 2*s when I look for matches, but if I put out loaner/mstorm/im35 on defence, 1-2* transitioners will see me.

To OP: I'm interested in finding out if/how surfer affects mmr too. Someone smarter than me suggested new players who luck into a surfer might find themselves in a special mmr where everyone is playing surfer/venom/im35.

Tannen

dr tinykittylove wrote:

You're talking about scaling. Mmr is roster dependant. You get matched with teams of a similar level.

I really do wish that I got matched to teams of a similar level in pvp. Things would then be much, much easier. The only teams I seem to see any more when it matters are maxed teams of 4*s (boosted to 350 no less). I have no level 270 4*s, which is the unboosted level of those 350's (because iso shortage). From this, it would seem that my own characters levels' don't appear to be a major factor in determining the levels of the teams that I face... However they do place a limit on what teams I can comfortably kill fast enough to hop successfully.

*shrugs* As a point of clarity, I'm not talking about scaling.

Unknown

It appears I have confused Scaling with MMR. From what you're saying, MMR affects PVP while Scaling influences PVE opponent strength. That is good to know. Moving on...

I keep my roster at 131 primarily for PVE purposes. Through comparisons with alliance mates, I find that it truly does make for much easier battles than a maxed roster of 166's would. This was especially true for the last battle in the recent Growth Industry event. A roster of 30+ maxed-cover 3*'s at 131 also allows me to remain competitive in PVP, up until around 800-850 PTS.

To be honest, I'm not too concerned with SS (Silver Surfer) ruining my MMR in regards to PVP - I already see maxed 166-270 teams when I'm above 600 PTS in any given PVP event. It's my cushy scaling in PVE that I don't want to lose. The last thing I want is to roster a single-cover SS at 255, and the next thing I know the Ares, Venom, Juggs combo who all used to be level 195, are now at an impossible level 250 all due to a (at this point useless to me) SS.

Were this to be the case, I'd have to choice but to level up my entire roster to 166. I'm getting ahead of myself (I should worry about recruiting a SS in the first place), but I was curious to know how he's affecting people's rosters in terms of scaling and MMR. Thanks for everyone's input.

dr tinykittylove

Tannen wrote:

dr tinykittylove wrote:

You're talking about scaling. Mmr is roster dependant. You get matched with teams of a similar level.

I really do wish that I got matched to teams of a similar level in pvp. Things would then be much, much easier. The only teams I seem to see any more when it matters are maxed teams of 4*s (boosted to 350 no less). I have no level 270 4*s, which is the unboosted level of those 350's (because iso shortage). From this, it would seem that my own characters levels' don't appear to be a major factor in determining the levels of the teams that I face... However they do place a limit on what teams I can comfortably kill fast enough to hop successfully.

*shrugs* As a point of clarity, I'm not talking about scaling.

I've not done any particular close examination, but from my anecdotal experience on my accounts, I suspect that once you have your 3*s maxed and some 4*s covered/levelled, you will see more maxed/high level 4*s in general. My mainly 2* account started getting matched with more maxed 3*s once I maxed my 2*s and had a few 3*s I could throw into the rotation.

If by "when it counts" you mean high point targets for shield hopping, everyone gets those... including my sad unmaxed 3*s on my main account.

Wooodd

MonteChristo wrote:

I already see maxed 166-270 teams when I'm above 600 PTS in any given PVP event.

Slightly off topic I know (apologies) as it doesn't refer to but I see maxed 166 *** teams all the time in PvP too, sometimes ****'s into the 200's as well.

Check out my roster in my sig, I'm a newb on day 67 with only 2 characters over 94, and only by a little. I'm still a ** player. Why would I get grouped with such a high caliber of players so consistently, and how can I stop it?

Once I get around 600 I have to stop in PvP because everyone is running maxed or better at this point and my roster just doesn't cut it.

Why would this be? Am I doing something wrong? What can I do to prevent this? I never place T100 in PvP (mainly PvE atm, just play PvP for Points and the 650 ) so surely it cannot be my pastr performance influencing this.

Wooodd

OJSP wrote:

Firstly, well done for doing so well only after 67 days of playing. Your roster is solid, much better than probably most of us at that early stage in the game (definitely better than mine).

Thanks, I do think however that this is where the problem stems from. I hit the ground running when I first installed the game grinding all nodes down to the stub and placing T10 a lot.

OJSP wrote:

It's possible that you've gone past your points equilibrium (around 600 might be that point) and have been ranking too high on the leaderboard, where no other teams with a 2* roster can be matched against you to give an appropriate number of points. Therefore, you'll get matched with rosters with higher tiers characters and they could find you queued in their nodes. Again, there's no way to remedy this, apart from hoping for other people with 2* roster eventually catch up with you, so you'll be matched against them again. Or, start the event later, so there would be more people with 2* rosters available to play against, but chances are, you'll probably still see maxed 3*s from around 600 to 700 points.

Yeah I feared this would be the case. I just cannot comprehend that they cannot group people (1000 per slice) by average roster size, and then past performance. Surely there are 1000 people with a predominantly ** roster to band together for a level playing field.

I did start to think that doing 'badly' on a few events may help out but it looks like that won't help too much. Probably a good thing because I don't think I have it in me to not perform (I'm too competitive )

Oh well, such is life. Thanks for your input, I guess I'll have to keep on keeping on.

puppychow

MonteChristo wrote:

I keep my roster at 131 primarily for PVE purposes. Through comparisons with alliance mates, I find that it truly does make for much easier battles than a maxed roster of 166's would. This was especially true for the last battle in the recent Growth Industry event. A roster of 30+ maxed-cover 3*'s at 131 also allows me to remain competitive in PVP, up until around 800-850 PTS.

I take a similar approach in limiting my roster of 4*s to 181. I may not reach 1.3 with it in pvp, but I sure can get every legendary tokens from pve progression. And since I'm able to reach 1k in pvp, I can get the 7.5k season legendary token w/o relying on SHIELD.

puppychow

Wooodd wrote:

Check out my roster in my sig, I'm a newb on day 67 with only 2 characters over 94, and only by a little. I'm still a ** player. Why would I get grouped with such a high caliber of players so consistently, and how can I stop it?

Once I get around 600 I have to stop in PvP because everyone is running maxed or better at this point and my roster just doesn't cut it.

Why would this be? Am I doing something wrong? What can I do to prevent this? I never place T100 in PvP (mainly PvE atm, just play PvP for Points and the 650 ) so surely it cannot be my pastr performance influencing this.

Matchmaking is a weird aspect of MPQ. The game doesn't look at only your roster. AI considers your point value and placement within your bracket at the time of matchmaking. So if you get 600 points during the middle of the event, and AI can't find a comparable 2* roster w/ similar points, then you get bumped from JV to varsity league. LOL

I would recommend pushing at the last 3 hours of your event, and see if that makes a difference in avoiding a max wall for matchmaking.

Unknown

Good to hear people talking about this.

As per usual, the whys don't make a bunch of sense, but it's at least helpful to get a sense of the whats.

I did pretty well last season, earning 1700 in sim for the first time, as well as my first ever season 10-pack, and I'm regularly getting hit by teams up to 170+ levels above me this time around.

Not much chance of me doing well this time around, and if I'm reading this thread correctly, it sounds like that's going to be my experience moving forward.

The end result is likely me largely bailing on PvP (already bailed on PvE due to the expectations), but at least the mystery of what is currently happening to my crew is resolved.

DBC

Born2DieNPvP

I hit this wall too after I got my first season 10 pack. In an angry hail mary I started throwing experimental teams at people once I accepted I had no prayer of the 10 pack that season. It's alot of fun and surprisingly not a complete failure. If nothing else you're bound to find a couple new characters you previously thought worthless suddenly become favorites. It won't help your mmr but by the next season you'll likely have levelled up some new guys and have a few new strategies.

SirLanik

Despite everyone saying Silver Surfer should not affect your PVP matchups if all your other characters are much lower, since recruiting him my PVP has become virtually impossible.

Most of my three star characters are between 90 something and 130, and I have only one fully covered (Quicksilver...) so most times when I match, I get a mix of level 94 two star enemies , boosted 2 star, mid range three star, and 166s.

After adding Silver Surfer?

All my opponents are 240-270. All of them. I skipped 20 times looking for an opponent I had a shot against, didn't even find one with characters within 100 levels of mine.

So, teams beware- I sincerely doubt that Silver Surfer doesn't actually affect PVP scaling, since my PVP is now unplayable.

Unknown

SirLanik wrote:

Despite everyone saying Silver Surfer should not affect your PVP matchups if all your other characters are much lower, since recruiting him my PVP has become virtually impossible....

So, teams beware- I sincerely doubt that Silver Surfer doesn't actually affect PVP scaling, since my PVP is now unplayable.

Thank You. This is exactly what I feared would happen. And sorry about your "luck".

Unknown

before i had ss i think i can hit 1000 easily, when i got one i felt that pvp filled with 270/350 player whether i attack or got attacked after hitting 700 points. most of my roster at Lv166.

. . . .maybe i'm wrong(still curious)

snlf25

I have a Silver Surfer and I won mine by defeated buffed Cyclops in the DDQ so I was one of the first to get him. Nothing changed with my PvP at all. I still see the same mix of teams and the same levels of teams as I always did. I've used him against a few seed teams too but not late in an event. So I'm thinking something else must have changed, either you started doing substantially better than you had been and you are being penalized for your improved performance or you've just lost your luck at picking out slices. That can make all the difference too. Usually the more hardcore guys join first so I hang back a little. Are you joining earlier than you used to?

Crowl

It might just be bad luck or they have changed something in the way they do matchmaking, in the iceman pvp I am seeing nothing lower than 166 besides the loaner icemen and most stuff is well in excess of 200 and my points/placing are both in the 200's so nothing high.

snlf25

Remember too that since they have given us nothing in the way of new three stars for a long time that we are reaching a point that under the 4* tier everybody is starting to have pretty much the same roster and will be using whoever is boosted. And there isn't enough four stars yet to have all that great a diversity over the three star tier either.

SirLanik

snlf25 wrote:

I have a Silver Surfer and I won mine by defeated buffed Cyclops in the DDQ so I was one of the first to get him. Nothing changed with my PvP at all. I still see the same mix of teams and the same levels of teams as I always did. I've used him against a few seed teams too but not late in an event. So I'm thinking something else must have changed, either you started doing substantially better than you had been and you are being penalized for your improved performance or you've just lost your luck at picking out slices. That can make all the difference too. Usually the more hardcore guys join first so I hang back a little. Are you joining earlier than you used to?

I can't guarantee how it will affect everyone matches- Just that my pvp (I was at about rank 220, with 380 points) got a lot tougher.

I checked all the rosters within 10 places of me in placement, and one had all 166, and all the rest had characters of level 80-100.

So to answer, no, I was not suddenly performing much better. I think the game even knows it too- all the insane opponents I'm getting offered all give 70+ points if I beat them, just have no good chance of doing so.

Unknown

so i sell surfer and hit search button. . . .nothing change

restart the game open shield simulator seeking target aaaaand all i seee 166 team(mostly) again, the highest lv for 4 star so far lv180, just saying