Okay, enough is enough we need a new character ranking

20three
20three Posts: 371
edited October 2015 in MPQ Character Discussion
It's been nearly 4 months since the last one, think about how much has changed since then. I have a full time job, otherwise I would just do it myself because the ocp in me is killing me. But honestly, I can't do it by myself, nor would I want to, but I'm willing to do what I can. Does anyone have any idea on how to do this efficiently? Is there a survey site or something we could use in which we could place all the characters on a grid and assign them a score from 1-10. Could every voter just rank them? I'm not sure, if we were to have the users post their rankings here, that would be a TON of information to process, so I would definitely need a lot of volunteers to help, in which we could break up all the characters into how many people are willing to help to save a lot of time and effort. So what do you say fellow mpqers?!
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Comments

  • I'm willing to help in any way I can, but I'm not willing to lead the charge. I'm pretty handy with a spreadsheet though, and have quite a bit of patience to parse information.
  • 1. Silver Surfer
    2. Who cares?
  • ronin_san
    ronin_san Posts: 980 Critical Contributor
    It makes sense to me for us to just vote the top 10 in each tier, (excluding 2*s, since there's been no new chars since the last poll).

    We can then ascertain if new chars since last ranking made waves.

    Do we really need a top to bottom ranking? I don't think so.
  • ronin-san wrote:
    It makes sense to me for us to just vote the top 10 in each tier, (excluding 2*s, since there's been no new chars since the last poll).

    We can then ascertain if new chars since last ranking made waves.

    Do we really need a top to bottom ranking? I don't think so.

    I think you got to expand the rankings a good bit. Like, I think most people trying to build 3*s are going to have more then 10 of them to build, and may not always get a shot at the really good covers.

    Not everybody's deciding between Iron Fist and Super Steve. Some are deciding between Mohawk Storm and BigTorch.
  • elwhiteninja
    elwhiteninja Posts: 209 Tile Toppler
    I think 3 stars need to be re-ranked completely with the new characters some have changed.

    Scarlet witch will be moving to top 10 for sure with iceman coming out
  • Just FYI, I found this from a few weeks ago:

    viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32428&p=403135#p403135

    Looks like the guy who ran the previous rankings will be doing it again around anniversary time. Hopefully he got what he needed from the thread above. I wish I had seen it sooner.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    Scarlet witch will be moving to top 10 for sure with iceman coming out
    She should've been way higher regardless.

    The problem with all this is that the rankings are only as good as the people voting, and I don't trust an electorate that thinks LT is the best character in the game.
  • SolidQ
    SolidQ Posts: 247 Tile Toppler
    w00tm0ng3r wrote:
    1. Silver Surfer
    2. Who cares?
    SS should be not include. icon_e_wink.gif
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    simonsez wrote:
    and I don't trust an electorate that thinks....
    wow that could be applied to so many subjects....
  • Ebolamonkey84
    Ebolamonkey84 Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
    Like it was mentioned above, I was planning on trying to do it around anniversary time.
  • Punisher5784
    Punisher5784 Posts: 3,836 Chairperson of the Boards
    simonsez wrote:
    Scarlet witch will be moving to top 10 for sure with iceman coming out
    She should've been way higher regardless.

    The problem with all this is that the rankings are only as good as the people voting, and I don't trust an electorate that thinks LT is the best character in the game.

    Which is why the first question should be:

    How long have you been playing MPQ?
    • Less than 6 months
    • 6 months to 1-year
    • 1-2 years
    • 2 years +
    • I’ve been playing since the beginning!

    Then exclude all the players' vote with less than 6mos experience, maybe even 1-year. This way we get a better sense of the best characters based on the vet's opinion.
  • Ebolamonkey84
    Ebolamonkey84 Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
    simonsez wrote:
    Scarlet witch will be moving to top 10 for sure with iceman coming out
    She should've been way higher regardless.

    The problem with all this is that the rankings are only as good as the people voting, and I don't trust an electorate that thinks LT is the best character in the game.

    Which is why the first question should be:

    How long have you been playing MPQ?
    • Less than 6 months
    • 6 months to 1-year
    • 1-2 years
    • 2 years +
    • I’ve been playing since the beginning!

    Then exclude all the players' vote with less than 6mos experience, maybe even 1-year. This way we get a better sense of the best characters based on the vet's opinion.

    Length of time alone is not an adequate measure of one's experience. The last poll included number of days played and a question about your roster strength in order to try to parse out information.

    I do think there is value in getting the opinions of people that don't necessarily have the character, because it lets the more developed rosters know who weaker rosters try to avoid. Some people have an irrational fear of 4* characters, and will choose to fight a 290/240/240 all 3* team over a 290/270/270 team even though the 3* team could potentially be as dangerous.
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some people have an irrational fear of 4* characters, and will choose to fight a 290/240/240 all 3* team over a 290/270/270 team even though the 3* team could potentially be as dangerous.
    there is some merit to this. however, if you're running 2x 270s, I'm betting money its not IW/starlord. weakest 270 I've seen consistently is xforce (or px if you want to include that niche) and most are some combination of jean/hb/xpool/carnage. yes, i'll take on cage/torch over those. if I have a good featured with a good boosted with synergy (also needs a good red user), i'll take on carnage using hood. hb is not overwhelming if you can take him first. key partners prevent that though. I did choose fistbuster teams over cage/shulk.

    there is definitely a progression there. partly due to roster strength and partly due to learning the higher end of the game. about 2 months ago I was not comfortable taking on 4*s at all, but I only had a few 166s (I think thor/mags/fist). about 1 month ago I'd take on 220s but skipped 270s. now that I've played against 4*s so much I've looked at abilities and damage, I know that the 220 is just as dangerous as the 270, only difference is health. so put a different way, the 270 ability is no more dangerous than the 220 ability (same covers) except takes a little longer to down.
  • On-topic but off-point, has there been any consideration to a system that allows for rolling rankings? It should be possible to develop a system where rankings are kept up-to-date, and new characters are added. If a character change(buff/nerf) happens, it wipes the past history for it and starts anew. Recorded entries would have a login, and therefore the people providing the rankings could change them as their views or the game itself evolves.

    I have no idea how the math would work for this, but I would be happy to provide webhosting if that's a requirement. This type of system, once running and balanced, would preclude the need for a single person to do all of the work, and would allow for a current snapshot on demand.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,878 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think now is a great time to do this as 3 star characters seem to be set now along with 2 and 1 star characters. In that the shift has focused from 3-4 to 4-5.

    Surfer is obviously #1. And I personally can attest to the strength of the 1-3 stars. I have every 2 and 3 cover maxed except Bagman, Gamora, Vision and Iron Fist (who is one purple away from an ideal 3/5/5). And only a handful aren't ideally covered. So I am an expert up to that point. However, in 4* land none of my characters are remotely usable despite having every character sans Iceman. So I couldn't begin to rank the 4 stars.

    Also, when ranking it's hard to do because there's people I use most often (Steve, the true healers for climbing), the Autowins (Deadpool, Hulkbomb), the quickest teams (Cyclops and other generators), the teams you just throw up as scarecrows, etc. and so it's hard. I hate using health packs when I don't have to and so I overrate Patch as he is used more than any other character. That's blasphemy on this board because he's such an easy kill, hurts himself, was nerfed with the health buffs, etc.

    I think the best way to do this is to select a committee of known vets on this board. People who are very familiar with the characters and have them supply the rankings. Close it off to the general public and have it be a committee vote.

    Here's my stab at it.

    Cyclops (Uncanny X-Men)
    Kamala Khan (Ms. Marvel)
    Iron Fist (Immortal Weapon)
    Steve Rogers (Super Soldier)
    Scarlet Witch (Wanda Maximoff)
    Luke Cage (Hero For Hire)
    Wolverine (Patch)
    The Hood (Classic)
    Loki (Dark Reign)
    Thor (Modern)

    Blade (Daywalker)
    Daken (Classic)
    Deadpool (It's Me, Deadpool!)
    Magneto (Classic)
    Black Panther (T'Challa)
    Doctor Doom (Classic)
    The Hulk (Indestructible)
    She-Hulk (Modern)
    Black Widow (Grey Suit)
    Rocket and Groot (Most Wanted)

    The Punisher (Dark Reign)
    Daredevil (Man Without Fear)
    Mystique (Raven Darkholme)
    Sam Wilson (Falcon)
    Captain Marvel (Modern)
    Human Torch (Classic)
    Storm (Mohawk)
    Beast (Classic)
    Squirrel Girl (Unbeatable)
    Gamora (Guardians of the Galaxy)

    Iron Man (Model 40)
    Psylocke (Classic)
    Colossus (Classic)
    Bullseye (Classic)
    Doctor Octopus (Otto Octavius)
    Spider-Man (Classic)
    Sentry (Dark Avengers)
    Ragnarok (Dark Avengers)
    Quicksilver (Pietro Maximoff)
    Vision (Android Avenger)

    Black Widow (Original)
    Ares (Dark Avengers)
    Storm (Classic)
    Magneto (Marvel NOW!)
    Thor (Marvel NOW!)
    Hawkeye (Modern)
    Daken (Dark Avengers)
    Wolverine (Astonishing X-Men)
    Captain Marvel (Ms. Marvel)
    Human Torch (Johnny Storm)
    Moonstone (Dark Avengers)
    Bullseye (Dark Avengers)
    Steve Rogers (Captain America)
    Spider-Man (Bag-Man)

    Juggernaut (Classic)
    Spider-Man (Original)
    Black Widow (Modern)
    Storm (Modern)
    Iron Man (Model 35)
    Venom (Dark Avengers)
    Hawkeye (Classic)
    Yelena Belova (Dark Avengers)
  • Also, when ranking it's hard to do because there's people I use most often (Steve, the true healers for climbing), the Autowins (Deadpool, Hulkbomb), the quickest teams (Cyclops and other generators), the teams you just throw up as scarecrows, etc. and so it's hard.

    I've been thinking a lot about this, and without knowing exactly how it was done before, I think the response to this sentiment is, "it doesn't really matter." To elaborate, I feel that this guidance should be posed to everyone who participates: "rank all characters against each other." This poll is subjective at its roots, but on a large enough spectrum the best, the middling, and the worst will all be fleshed out and made consistent. So it comes down to each player, and the value they place on characters. For example, if some value Steve Rogers for pushing, some for PVE, and some for speed, he will be highly rated as he is more of an 'all around' cover than say, Doctor Octopus, who has narrow use. I think this will produce the results people are looking for. And when I say people, I mostly mean beginners, since vets will know the value every cover has to them, and use them accordingly.
  • simonsez wrote:
    Scarlet witch will be moving to top 10 for sure with iceman coming out
    She should've been way higher regardless.

    The problem with all this is that the rankings are only as good as the people voting, and I don't trust an electorate that thinks LT is the best character in the game.
    No, the problem was age. She was still 'new', and thus fewer people had used her, fewer people had her covered, and fewer people fought her. I openly admit I was super underwhelmed when she came out - I thought she would be a 3* version of 2* MStorm, but she did the same dmg with the stun being random - of a 2* Storm. It wasn't until people talked her up as a battery that my view changed and I started plugging away at her. It's similar to Beast, his ranking should go up for reasons illustrated in the last thread - people knew the old Beast, not the new Beast (not saying he's OP or anything, just perception is reality). QS isn't far behind (in the opposite direction), with the actual practicality of his blue being so low that's he's actually pretty ****. Max and boosted he will raise your blood pressure a little bit...but...yeah.

    As for the general concept, I dunno. What's the point? And I say that in a non-rhetorical manor. Is it just to say who's stronger? Is it to say who's more important? Because for some of the hate that the newer folks may get for their votes, 2hor IS important. MStorm is relevant. IMHB is strong, but how important is he? We are currently going through the next 'transition' and the dust has settled on the 'boosted PvP' stuff, and both of those make things murkier and harder to see into the future than before (SS not withstanding). Defense has become so worthless that a GSBW/SWitch/PX team could be argued as the best team. There is another 5* incoming. They added JG and Iceman, two characters that look like they were designed to counter both PX and IMHB.

    I mean bluntly put, will the list be worth anything? You'll have 'obvious top ten', then 'strong people to have', then 'people you keep because they may get boosted or incase they are necessary for a PvE node'. The distance between characters has shrunk drastically 'within' tiers. Is PX worth anything with GSBW? IMHB w/o IF? Carnage w/o JG?
    - Unreall
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    Is PX worth anything with GSBW? IMHB w/o IF? Carnage w/o JG?
    I know that was rhetorical, but, px could work with witch(no gsbw)/fist/Cyclops/doom/thor - they all have abilities that can led to crits. but sure, gsbw is automatic 2 blues going off. imhb can stand alone just fine, albeit slower - he's a self feeding ares for pete sake. and carnage can be put with any strike/protect character (I think antman could be good) or even drock. granted I have no working 4* yet, but I can see how they would work together.

    now that the 3* faucet has been plugged, I think this could be the first ranking where we see true values for everyone since even the latest release has seen some play by nearly everyone (bullseye, I think?). now that I say thay, not sure I ever played bulls for anything other than an essential, but many have.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    No, the problem was age.
    Not sure what this really means. You're giving a reason why people vote badly. So you're supporting my point, and yet you begin with "No", as if you think you're disagreeing.
  • simonsez wrote:
    No, the problem was age.
    Not sure what this really means. You're giving a reason why people vote badly. So you're supporting my point, and yet you begin with "No", as if you think you're disagreeing.

    I didn't take that from his post. I understood this to mean that, at the time of the poll, LThor was widely used and accepted, and thus was ranked highly. SW was new, and strategies were still in the making for her. In games like this, there is an ebb and flow that changes by the month, FotM builds are found and widely adopted, synergy is discovered, etc.

    I agree with the previous poster that this is a good time (at least for the 3*s) to run this poll again, because 3* usage has more or less leveled out due to a halt in character production. I think as long as the same "Policy" is applied to each person participating in the poll (see my above post), it can greatly help beginners and intermediate players make important decisions about retention. Plus, it's always fun to see stats and what others think, as long as you don't assume it's gospel. And who doesn't love a good heat map?