Ever lost a daken?

grunth13

I don't know if others have noticed this. I use daken, patch, loki quite a bit. I lose my daken every couple of weeks because there is not enough blue on the board. I will go 4-5 turns before another blue (even 1) tile will fall from the sky. If 2*daken is buffed, I use him instead of 3* daken and have lost him too. What I have never seen is AI daken die because there aren't enough blue tiles. I will always have to kill him off myself. The maximum I will have seen a minimum blue board against an AI daken is maybe 2-3 turns, but then blue will pour down and he heals himself. Just wondering if others are seeing the same thing.

snlf25

If you want to truly understand AI unfairness, bring your Ragnarok against a computer controlled Ragnarok. Brutal difference. I seem to always see the same situation with Daken that you do too.

Malcrof

In the Hulk event, i have seen Enemy Daken suicide himself a few times. The higher the level he is buffed, the more self damage he takes.

optimus2861

If you want to blue-starve an enemy Daken, bring your Dr. Doom to the fight

xellessanova

I did, but then I found him in my sock drawer. He'd been there the whole time!

On a more serious note, I use 5/4/4 and he doesn't go down too often. Are you running a 5/3/5?

grunth13

I am running a 5/5/3 per NP's guide. It just seems the board hates me when I am using him, but I never have a board with less than 5 blue (with at least 2 about to fall from the sky) when the AI uses him. Its just weird or a conspiracy, hehehe.

Unknown

Mine is usually behind the couch... I know, the last place, right?

Seriously, my Daken and Patch tend to see a bunch of action, so yeah, I've definitely experienced my share of the "withering Daken" phenomenon...

DBC

Unknown

I use Grocket as my primary character, so I'm always out hunting blue matches. With enemy Daken further eliminating blue tiles by matching and with his power I've seen him strangle himself down, yes.

Probably won't happen a lot though, particularly if you're not making a point of getting blues off the board yourself.

grunth13

Magisse wrote:

I use Grocket as my primary character, so I'm always out hunting blue matches. With enemy Daken further eliminating blue tiles by matching and with his power I've seen him strangle himself down, yes.

Probably won't happen a lot though, particularly if you're not making a point of getting blues off the board yourself.

That is the thing, when I am using my patch, daken, loki, I am usually looking for green, black, red, purple, blue, yellow in that order. Even when I am not looking for blue, I get a blue starved board. On the opposite end, when ai has daken, I am actively trying to get blue and blue keeps falling from up above.

scottee

I can't remember that last time I lost him to suicide. When it's close to the limit, I just don't match blue.

defixu

This is a skewed comparison, since the asymetric style of play leads to Daken being used differently by the AI and by the player:

As a player, you use your Daken to tank, so he regularly takes hits and has to heal back up. If there is not enough blue on the board, he will die because he was already (badly?) hurt when the board became blue starved.

The AI cannot actively choose who tanks the hits the player makes. Since a player would usually be pretty stupid not to burst Daken down with skills, the AI Daken is usually much more likely to have full health than a player Daken, since he is left for last. (The only exception being the occassional AOE, from which he can heal back up.)

In short: To die from full health will take an AI Daken who does not tank much longer than a player Daken who does, therefore you see much more player Dakens dying.

Jarvind

I've seen him suicide a few times, but only when I had him at low health from AOEs (I use JG a lot) and then deliberately ate up the blue on the board. I think Defixu summed it up pretty well.

grunth13

True, I can see the different style of play causing different results, but what about the blue tiles that are actually on the board. Why is it that when I am using daken, I see less blue tiles vs when ai is using blue, there is plenty of blue tiles even with me actively trying to match them away.

Dayv

grunth13 wrote:

True, I can see the different style of play causing different results, but what about the blue tiles that are actually on the board. Why is it that when I am using daken, I see less blue tiles vs when ai is using blue, there is plenty of blue tiles even with me actively trying to match them away.

I think this is just the human tendency to remember more strongly the things that irritate us. Combine that with the play differences pointed out by defixu, and it's not hard to convince yourself that something is "up".

grunth13

Maybe, but I still don't remember ai dying because of Healing and Heat vs. my daken dying on a semi-regular basis. Especially since daken is in almost half or more of all pve's, I should be seeing ai daken die on a semi-regular basis. I have been playing pve almost exclusively until recently so my opponents have essentially been the dark avengers and occasionally mag/mys/hood. I don't get to use my daken except for lightening round or gauntlet since the other side has daken Therefore, I should be seeing more ai daken die from healing and heat then my own. I understand that we as humans are prone to confirmation bias, but we can't use that as an excuse every single time. We can't discard what people are seeing. The odds of me losing my daken when I am using my daken to healing and heat should be less since I am not actively making blue matches unless I have to vs ai daken who is actively searching for blue tiles and then converting 2 blue tiles to green each time it uses chemical reaction.

optimus2861

The PvE adversary Daken is almost always the 2* version with 5 covers in black; he only needs 6 blue tiles on the board to heal. On a 64-tile board, that's pretty easy.

Lidolas

I use Daken almost daily for the last DPDQ node. I can't remember ever having him die from blue-starvation. I've lost health for 2-3 times in a row, but I leave blue alone, make other matches and he heals back up.

Eddiemon

grunth13 wrote:

I don't know if others have noticed this. I use daken, patch, loki quite a bit. I lose my daken every couple of weeks because there is not enough blue on the board. I will go 4-5 turns before another blue (even 1) tile will fall from the sky. If 2*daken is buffed, I use him instead of 3* daken and have lost him too. What I have never seen is AI daken die because there aren't enough blue tiles. I will always have to kill him off myself. The maximum I will have seen a minimum blue board against an AI daken is maybe 2-3 turns, but then blue will pour down and he heals himself. Just wondering if others are seeing the same thing.

But your Daken is tanking as well as not healing?

On an AI team Daken is always my third priority. So even when blue starved losing 200+ health per turn it would still take 30 moves to kill him without active intervention. Thirty moves is a lot to keep blue down and not have killed off the other 2 opponents. 2* Daken takes closer to 40 turns to die on his own.

I've managed to keep an AI Daken without enough blue for 10+ turns with things like KK's purple, but I still get round to killing him long before Heat does.

Kevin61

optimus2861 wrote:

If you want to blue-starve an enemy Daken, bring your Dr. Doom to the fight

First character I put in the line-up whenever I see Daken!!!!!!

ShadowX1984

The other day I was fighting 2*Daken with a 2* team of my own (no Doom). He was the last opponent standing and we were going back and forth with his life total not making much progress until the AI played a Technopathic Strike team up (!), instantly depriving itself of any Blue tiles at all. It only lasted a few turns after that. It was the most suicidal move I've seen from the AI other than a low- hp Ares flat out killing himself with Sunder, and it was tremendously gratifying.

nwman

Don't forget your fighting a 5/5/5 daken also.