Vet/Dev Question

Unknown

Well, I don't want or need the Spider-man covers as my Spidey is full, I just want to win to prevent other users from liking Spider-man as he is just going to get nerfed anyways, so I am doing them a favor... ;o)

Unknown

thatguy13 wrote:

Phantron, I did significantly better during the Thorverine phase. I could essentially play non-stop for hours on end. Now I could probably do the same if I took the time to plan out every move but even then it's very grindy when every team has a healer.

Koolbird: My point is if you're a new guy and would love any new cover and have to fight and grind to top 45 and people at the top are wiping their butts with covers. It's a bit discouraging. Particularly when coupled with the fact that most events appear to cater to the upper tier of players.

Ladder: As I said I can see both sides. I'm not advocating not earning rewards, just suggesting that the system needs further balance and at the same time being afraid that in the attempt to level the playing field, the game will be made worse.

I'm running 141 Punisher, 136 Patch, and 109 Spidey. I STILL LOSE to OBW, C.Storm, Thor, and Wolvie squads. No one is immune to losses. Most events cater to the upper tiers- Spidey covers are catering to upper tiers??? Mine is maxed. Top 45 is a good placement, but with MMR and shield implementation you can get higher. I got #2 in No Holds Barred and the leader was running 47 OBW, 85 C. Storm, and 67 Thor. If you think having a maxed 141 team is a guaranteed win, you are sadly mistaken.

Unknown

I'd say it wasn't so bad before. But now they started giving 4-stars along with the announcememt of being buffed. I assume people try and fail and end up throwing away the 2nd place prize that they didn't need.

Personally, I don't care much for the current 4 stars, so I don't try unless I also need the 2nd place prize. Even then, I tend to just settle with 2nd as 1st place takes too much work than I'm willing to put in.

Unknown

I've tanked out of high placement before because I didn't need covers. In fact, I've gone as far to yield to drop placement. I deliberately only went for a top 45 in the last NHB because I only needed Yellow Hood.

However, many times you only need one of the 3 covers but that Yellow Hood may only be for the top 5 guys. Also, I have sold 3x of the 3* rewards when I've chased down first for a 4* cover.

Unknown

Veracity wrote:

thatguy13 wrote:

most events appear to cater to the upper tier of players

They really don't. Can we get a psych major up in here to tell him what he's doing? It's not selection bias, I don't think, but there's bound to be some fancy name for it. The new LRs will be dominated by long-established players while they're novel, but if they're to anyone's great benefit it's the ever-complaining middling roster players. The most established vets who've stuck around do not want more IM40 covers, much less at the cost of scrapping in the game's most brutal regular event.

One thing I did want to toss in: I've said before I wish it were possible to decline covers you don't want (from part or all of a placement award), and the server would just pass them to the next ranked player. I've not bothered posting it in the suggestions forum because I think there are more pressing uses for Demiurge's limited time right now, and because I doubt they'd see the upside in helping put more free covers in players' hands when they're trying to sell you the things.

I respectfully disagree. For the Heroic entry event, I didn't have 300hp to blow and I think it's reasonable to assume most new players don't. Lightning Rounds are open brackets so outside of getting a few ISO from the low end progression rewards it's unlikely that I have a good shot against high level teams at the top of these events. Any event with a new character is going to be flooded with upper level players who want the newest characters. Note that I am not saying I blame anyone for maximizing their play experience here. Just saying that the fun level of everyone shouldn't be a casualty.

I agree with your idea to pass on covers. There are 2* covers I've sold that I'm sure some new players could use that I'd happily sell to them for the ISO, I think most players would jump at the chance to buy a selected character for ISO especially if that cost is 100-200 ISO.

mischiefmaker

Veracity wrote:

thatguy13 wrote:

most events appear to cater to the upper tier of players

It's not selection bias, I don't think, but there's bound to be some fancy name for it.

I'm no psych major, but I think the term you're looking for is confirmation bias.

Unknown

mischiefmaker wrote:

Veracity wrote:

thatguy13 wrote:

most events appear to cater to the upper tier of players

It's not selection bias, I don't think, but there's bound to be some fancy name for it.

I'm no psych major, but I think the term you're looking for is confirmation bias.

There you go. Just another example of someone posting something right before I was going to post it. Why does that always happen to me?

Unknown

thatguy13 wrote:

I respectfully disagree. For the Heroic entry event, I didn't have 300hp to blow and I think it's reasonable to assume most new players don't. Lightning Rounds are open brackets so outside of getting a few ISO from the low end progression rewards it's unlikely that I have a good shot against high level teams at the top of these events. Any event with a new character is going to be flooded with upper level players who want the newest characters. Note that I am not saying I blame anyone for maximizing their play experience here. Just saying that the fun level of everyone shouldn't be a casualty.

I agree with your idea to pass on covers. There are 2* covers I've sold that I'm sure some new players could use that I'd happily sell to them for the ISO, I think most players would jump at the chance to buy a selected character for ISO especially if that cost is 100-200 ISO.

If anything, I'd say the recent ability to look at peoples rosters has shown that it is more than possible to rank at the top of tournaments with lowbie teams.

High end players didn't play the latest heroic lightning rounds because they already have the vast majority of those covers. In fact, you probably have to work far less to win one of those than how high end players earned their heroes.

And no offense but high end players who have been playing longer and have expanded rosters SHOULD have an advantage over lowbie players. People who don't even have maxed 2* covers are whining that they should be winning these 3* covers but the actuality is there is no point in a non maxed 2* player to win those 3* covers because they won't have covers to utilize the 3* or have the iso to level them.

I've been playing for ~4 months everyday and just recently started using my 3*s. Your prized level 85 2*? That's not even enough iso to get the last 30 levels out of a 3*

mischiefmaker

thatguy13 wrote:

I respectfully disagree. For the Heroic entry event, I didn't have 300hp to blow and I think it's reasonable to assume most new players don't. Lightning Rounds are open brackets so outside of getting a few ISO from the low end progression rewards it's unlikely that I have a good shot against high level teams at the top of these events. Any event with a new character is going to be flooded with upper level players who want the newest characters.

Except that:
- In the Heroic entry event, a fair number of older players with high level rosters sat out, and the top ten had at least one guy running a 2* roster.
- There are people consistently placing in the top 25 of the hero lightning rounds who don't have a character above level 60.
- Most people's Oscorp brackets had half or more of the top ten, winning Daredevil covers, going to 1* and 2* rosters.

I understand that it feels like people who've been around forever have a huge advantage and they're just hoarding all the goodies for themselves and keeping the little guy down. But the results clearly show that strategy, luck, and (most importantly) the willingness to try, can and do result in newer players doing quite well. Give it a try! You might be surprised at how well you can do.

Unknown

mischiefmaker wrote:

I think the term you're looking for is confirmation bias.

That's the fella. Thanks.

thatguy13 wrote:

I respectfully disagree. For the Heroic entry event, I didn't have 300hp to blow and I think it's reasonable to assume most new players don't. Lightning Rounds are open brackets so outside of getting a few ISO from the low end progression rewards it's unlikely that I have a good shot against high level teams at the top of these events.

Yeah, the pay-to-enter tournament was for the top end and folk P T Barnum would've loved, I'm not disputing that for a moment. But that's the only event I'd agree was more or less exclusively for those guys. I think our perceptions diverge at LRs - those are for everyone. You can't do much with them beyond farm out some ISO and a token or two, but neither can almost anyone. You're supposed to be able to participate in them and come out ahead, but no, not to win them. As you build up some of the featured characters, you stay in longer and pull out gradually better awards.

2-days are, I think, supposed to be somewhat similar but with more scope for you to push to a peak and make top 15 or 5. You certainly shouldn't be struggling to get top 45, even unshielded if you can play at the end, which gets you a 3* and 100HP. And right now, as others have said, you vastly overestimate how much difference a high-end roster makes to the rating you can achieve. Unclear whether that's by design or not, but almost anything can wind up almost anywhere at the moment.

Unknown

mischiefmaker wrote:

Except that:
- In the Heroic entry event, a fair number of older players with high level rosters sat out, and the top ten had at least one guy running a 2* roster.
- There are people consistently placing in the top 25 of the hero lightning rounds who don't have a character above level 60.
- Most people's Oscorp brackets had half or more of the top ten, winning Daredevil covers, going to 1* and 2* rosters.

I understand that it feels like people who've been around forever have a huge advantage and they're just hoarding all the goodies for themselves and keeping the little guy down. But the results clearly show that strategy, luck, and (most importantly) the willingness to try, can and do result in newer players doing quite well. Give it a try! You might be surprised at how well you can do.

- Wouldn't know, didn't have the spare HP.
- This surprises me. Given the people I run into after the farmable ISO, I had assumed it's filled with more of the same. Maybe I should put more effort into these.
- That bothered me a bit. I like that lower rosters are getting something but I feel that people with strong rosters should be winning most events. If you are in my bracket and you flew past me with any type of roster, unless you're shielded, I should be given the opportunity to challenge you. I know this applies more to the PVP than PVE, but it also happens in PVP.

In a way I agree with that. I'd say it's more, make awesome people fight awesome people. I was happy when I'd heard that Nemek won the Heroic event, as he has a strong roster and seems to play a lot, deserves it if you ask me. I'm trying man, I've been playing a lot less since they nerfed Thorverine and I've been forced to level new characters and they jacked prices on boosts. However, I will note that I tend to be more of a spaz player than a focused player, with all the healers out there and matches needing more strategy it just slows play down so much. Which as I've noted before tends to be a losing proposition when you start winning brackets and get attacked 3 times per win.

Unknown

thatguy13 wrote:

mischiefmaker wrote:

Except that:
- In the Heroic entry event, a fair number of older players with high level rosters sat out, and the top ten had at least one guy running a 2* roster.
- There are people consistently placing in the top 25 of the hero lightning rounds who don't have a character above level 60.
- Most people's Oscorp brackets had half or more of the top ten, winning Daredevil covers, going to 1* and 2* rosters.

I understand that it feels like people who've been around forever have a huge advantage and they're just hoarding all the goodies for themselves and keeping the little guy down. But the results clearly show that strategy, luck, and (most importantly) the willingness to try, can and do result in newer players doing quite well. Give it a try! You might be surprised at how well you can do.

- Wouldn't know, didn't have the spare HP.
- This surprises me. Given the people I run into after the farmable ISO, I had assumed it's filled with more of the same. Maybe I should put more effort into these.
- That bothered me a bit. I like that lower rosters are getting something but I feel that people with strong rosters should be winning most events. If you are in my bracket and you flew past me with any type of roster, unless you're shielded, I should be given the opportunity to challenge you. I know this applies more to the PVP than PVE, but it also happens in PVP.

In a way I agree with that. I'd say it's more, make awesome people fight awesome people. I was happy when I'd heard that Nemek won the Heroic event, as he has a strong roster and seems to play a lot, deserves it if you ask me. I'm trying man, I've been playing a lot less since they nerfed Thorverine and I've been forced to level new characters and they jacked prices on boosts. However, I will note that I tend to be more of a spaz player than a focused player, with all the healers out there and matches needing more strategy it just slows play down so much. Which as I've noted before tends to be a losing proposition when you start winning brackets and get attacked 3 times per win.

It's a part of the game. You'll get there, but you can't sit on the bench wishing you were the star quarterback.

During an IM40 tourney I lost 342 points after winning a match. I lost 363 in the first Heroes LR. You're gonna lose big, often, and fast. You'll also win one as well and place high in several...not sitting on the bench though.

Unknown

Because people want to play. Maybe they don't like the event going on, Prologue is boring, and the only other thing going on is PVP. What else are they gonna do?

Unknown

pumkin wrote:

Because people want to play. Maybe they don't like the event going on, Prologue is boring, and the only other thing going on is PVP. What else are they gonna do?

Another new weekend should be out tomorrow.

Unknown

I think the point he was trying to make was that new players would find it disheartening when the first page or so of every tournament thread is "Ugh not more Punisher/Patch/Whatever covers, I don't need any more of those, who could possibly need any of those" and the posts after the tournament is over are people talking about selling the covers they won. I can imagine someone who wanted the covers but lacked the team strength to do well enough could be bothered by that.

Just another issue that in my opinion would be solved by having MMR used for bracketing rather than something as arbitrary as the time that you first play. Even better would be a few versions of the tournament you could choose from with scaling rewards so the lower tier players could compete over 2* covers or whatever that they need, the middle tier (or bolder low-tier) players could compete for 3* covers and the high end players could compete over mountains of ISO and 4* covers.