5* Discussion/Thoughts

Unknown

So besides the ruckus on legendary tokens or not being whaleable, I wanted to know everyone's on the power level of the Epic characters.

We know they will have (at max level) around 600/500/400/300 match damage, surfer will have almost 60k hp but around 50-70k seems reasonable to see.

They start at lv255 and every extra cover adds 15lvs to the cap until the max lv of 450. Also, number of covers will matter less than lv for the scaling of their power.

When they become a thing on pvp and we see them all the time, 4*s will be buffed for an equivalent strength. Not sure of what will happen to 3*s and 2*s.

My opinion is that they could have big numbers w/o being outrageous. 25-30k hp and 100-150 or even 200-250 match damage seemed enough for a new tier, specially considering how different the numbers are between 3*s and 4*s.

Because the nowadays treatment of low distribution of 4*s (higher now but still not enough, with utterly low pull rates and more 4*s than 2*s) they said they were looking for new ways to hand them down. It's a bit frustrating that a lucky guy will have a lot of power in his hand and just to try and compete the only way will be whale the top 4*s.

And could not be enough. Forget 3*s. If surfer fires his red after 3 red matches you are alredy 12.5k hp down, which means you just lost someone. This can be true even to most 4*s. 13k hp ones will last one match3 longer in there.

Yeah it will take a while realistically, but why make that 4*s will need buffs beyond 350 just to get a chance? 6k damage for 7 red ap and 7k instant true heal for 12 blue ap looked good enoug as there are no side effects on his powers.

I like it that someone can get lucky and start competing with the 4* meta against whales but then should that person take so many steps ahead at once, while others struggled two years to get to the 1300 progression point and beyond? I think that power should come with dedication and not with luck.

(if this fits better in the characters sub-forum, sorry)

Unknown

It's going to be interesting that's for sure. I'm glad they chose a character deserving of the 5 star status!

Unknown

mango_sentinel wrote:

It's going to be interesting that's for sure. I'm glad they chose a character deserving of the 5 star status!

As much I like the character they choose as first I can't see this lasting too long.

We have 3* Thor and Hulk with 4* Elektra and star-lord.

Punisher5784

ShionSinX wrote:

mango_sentinel wrote:

It's going to be interesting that's for sure. I'm glad they chose a character deserving of the 5 star status!

As much I like the character they choose as first I can't see this lasting too long.

We have 3* Thor and Hulk with 4* Elektra and star-lord.

You will see 5* Beta Ray Bill and World War Hulk soon enough

Unknown

I think the starting level of 255 is way too high. It should have been 140 or 166 at most. Unless you have nearly maxed out 4*s just owning a single 5* will increase your scaling to the point where you'll have trouble competing. What happens when some 2-3 transitioner gets "lucky" and pulls one? It's not like scaling is even explained anywhere, they'd just recruit them and effectively ruin their ability to play the game.

Punisher5784

Enslaved wrote:

I think the starting level of 255 is way too high. It should have been 140 or 166 at most. Unless you have nearly maxed out 4*s just owning a single 5* will increase your scaling to the point where you'll have trouble competing. What happens when some 2-3 transitioner gets "lucky" and pulls one? It's not like scaling is even explained anywhere, they'd just recruit them and effectively ruin their ability to play the game.

Keep in mind that 5*'s can only be obtained from Legendary tokens. While there are a few ways to earn a Legendary token, a 2-3* transitioner will likely not win one. Even if they did, unless they have a fully leveled 3* roster they should just stockpile any they have.

I remembered when I joined around the Anniversary and pulled Devil Dino.. level 70 purple.. then I pulled another 3 purple! I leveled him to 80 cause of his high health.. well PVE sucked until I got Wolv, Daken and Thor to Level 80. This situation will likely not happen with a 5*

JamieMadrox

I think it was inevitable and that they're doing it right.

Unknown

Punisher5784 wrote:

Enslaved wrote:

I think the starting level of 255 is way too high. It should have been 140 or 166 at most. Unless you have nearly maxed out 4*s just owning a single 5* will increase your scaling to the point where you'll have trouble competing. What happens when some 2-3 transitioner gets "lucky" and pulls one? It's not like scaling is even explained anywhere, they'd just recruit them and effectively ruin their ability to play the game.

Keep in mind that 5*'s can only be obtained from Legendary tokens. While there are a few ways to earn a Legendary token, a 2-3* transitioner will likely not win one. Even if they did, unless they have a fully leveled 3* roster they should just stockpile any they have.

I remembered when I joined around the Anniversary and pulled Devil Dino.. level 70 purple.. then I pulled another 3 purple! I leveled him to 80 cause of his high health.. well PVE sucked until I got Wolv, Daken and Thor to Level 80. This situation will likely not happen with a 5*

Legendary tokens on pve progression say otherwise.

Even someone with 2* roster will have a shot at getting a 5*, and this scares me a lot.

Unknown

ShionSinX wrote:

mango_sentinel wrote:

It's going to be interesting that's for sure. I'm glad they chose a character deserving of the 5 star status!

As much I like the character they choose as first I can't see this lasting too long.

We have 3* Thor and Hulk with 4* Elektra and star-lord.

Yeah I agree, some decisions are a bit wonky. Wonder if that means 5 star versions of people already existing will be coming.

Dark Phoenix 5 star would be dope!

Jarvind

Punisher5784 wrote:

Even if they did, unless they have a fully leveled 3* roster they should just stockpile any they have.

I think the point that Enslaved was making is that unless you read a ton on the forums and study the wiki before ever playing a match, there's no way you would know that stockpiling tokens is advantageous. It's easy to forget that a lot of people don't read any of this stuff, and want to just- sacrilege, I know- play a game for fun.

So some player just wants to log on, match some gems and look at pictures of Iron man shooting stuff and wins a lucky legendary pack. Then he unwittingly screws himself by opening it because he is blissfully unaware that there is even such a thing as a "meta-game." Then it becomes brutally hard because of the unexplained scaling mechanics and the game loses a potential player because it stops being fun.

Scoregasms

Enslaved wrote:

I think the starting level of 255 is way too high. It should have been 140 or 166 at most. Unless you have nearly maxed out 4*s just owning a single 5* will increase your scaling to the point where you'll have trouble competing. What happens when some 2-3 transitioner gets "lucky" and pulls one? It's not like scaling is even explained anywhere, they'd just recruit them and effectively ruin their ability to play the game.

I asked this question directly to ICE actually with the above in mind and he answered it wouldn't impact personal scaling for such individuals, as for the particulars as to why not, that wasn't provided. It's just clear to me that no matter how hard I try to understand personal scaling, it's just not possible, lol. I'm more in line with your thinking though, one would think if the highest level you have is a 94 and all of a sudden you get a 255 added, you naturally think it would bork your PVE scaling, but apparently not. I wish I could give you more info though.

Raffoon

ShionSinX wrote:

(if this fits better in the characters sub-forum, sorry)

I think it fits better in the 13 page long announcement thread that IceIX has been responding to.


That said, I agree that the max level on 5*s seems too strong. Why promise to adjust all the 4*s upward in the future so that they're appropriate in comparison to the 5*s? Why not just make the 5*s appropriate in comparison to the 4*s to start with and save time re-balancing 16 characters when only some of them need to be adjusted?

GrimSkald

I do think the disparity in power between 5*s and everyone else is way too pronounced, but I guess I'll adopt a "wait and see" attitude towards it. I mean, even in the old days of X-Force/GT, a 4* was no more powerful than, say, two 3*s. Silver Surfer is easily as powerful as a whole team of 4*s...

JVReal

I believe that if they didn't make them Epic... then people would complain that the rarity and difficulty of obtaining them isn't worth the measly difference between them and a 4 star.

ICEIX replied to the answer that rostering the 5* would not impact personal scaling. It was not asked about playing that 5* character in PVE, and so it was not addressed that the player may clear #1 in the sub and subsequently get scaled up in the next sub or PVE... maybe?

My token luck sucks big time... I have yet to pull a 4* from any of my DDQ Vault Taco Tokens. And I've only missed a couple of them from not having the character (but now I do have them all). If my luck remains, I'll pull more Starlord Purple or Fury Blue... both of which I already have maxed, and not a single Epic.

Phumade

I wonder what the legendary pack icons are gonna look like? For the longest time, I did not know that gold covers would pulsate for 4*.

CrookedKnight

Ice said in the other thread that they'll be purple and "cosmic" looking, with a lightning effect when the cover is revealed.

SnowcaTT

I put my two-part concern in the intro thread, which goes as so:

5 star rarity is supposed to be "A-team" with even a few covers...even if you have lots of 4*'s, right?

So 1*/2* players get the easy scaling PVE's for awhile....and start earning these 5*'s, and using them exclusively for the rest of their playtime. No need to get 3* or 4*, though the 5* will slowly let them fill-in those other roster spots.

I'm already bored of playing HB every match, every event, for the last four months. I'm already bored of playing against JG for a bulk of the matches, every event, for the last two months. Now not only are you (the player) going to have to play 5*'s forever (mostly the first few, which will be the easiest to get multiple covers of), but you're going to have to play -against- them forever also.

Part one here is "easy catch-up"....but that has always been the case. 2*'s are so much easier than when I started. So are 3*'s. Soon so will 4*'s be. Did you spend money on buying characters and now they aren't the "best"? That's how it will always go with this kind of game. Part two I emphasized for a reason - just as it gets boring/annoying to play PVE vs. Dark Avengers over, and over, and over, and (you get it) - it's going to get really annoying seeing the same three 5*'s for the next year.

slidecage

Punisher5784 wrote:

Enslaved wrote:

I think the starting level of 255 is way too high. It should have been 140 or 166 at most. Unless you have nearly maxed out 4*s just owning a single 5* will increase your scaling to the point where you'll have trouble competing. What happens when some 2-3 transitioner gets "lucky" and pulls one? It's not like scaling is even explained anywhere, they'd just recruit them and effectively ruin their ability to play the game.

Keep in mind that 5*'s can only be obtained from Legendary tokens. While there are a few ways to earn a Legendary token, a 2-3* transitioner will likely not win one. Even if they did, unless they have a fully leveled 3* roster they should just stockpile any they have.

I remembered when I joined around the Anniversary and pulled Devil Dino.. level 70 purple.. then I pulled another 3 purple! I leveled him to 80 cause of his high health.. well PVE sucked until I got Wolv, Daken and Thor to Level 80. This situation will likely not happen with a 5*

what do you mean a 2 star player will not earn them.. 2x in PVE will get you a token. Open it up BOOM 5 star ... BOOM your days of playing are over.

sorry but noone is going to just give up on a 5 star they are going to say WOW I GOT A 5 Star not knowing it will destory their game

mohio

slidecage wrote:

Punisher5784 wrote:

Enslaved wrote:

I think the starting level of 255 is way too high. It should have been 140 or 166 at most. Unless you have nearly maxed out 4*s just owning a single 5* will increase your scaling to the point where you'll have trouble competing. What happens when some 2-3 transitioner gets "lucky" and pulls one? It's not like scaling is even explained anywhere, they'd just recruit them and effectively ruin their ability to play the game.

Keep in mind that 5*'s can only be obtained from Legendary tokens. While there are a few ways to earn a Legendary token, a 2-3* transitioner will likely not win one. Even if they did, unless they have a fully leveled 3* roster they should just stockpile any they have.

I remembered when I joined around the Anniversary and pulled Devil Dino.. level 70 purple.. then I pulled another 3 purple! I leveled him to 80 cause of his high health.. well PVE sucked until I got Wolv, Daken and Thor to Level 80. This situation will likely not happen with a 5*

what do you mean a 2 star player will not earn them.. 2x in PVE will get you a token. Open it up BOOM 5 star ... BOOM your days of playing are over.

sorry but noone is going to just give up on a 5 star they are going to say WOW I GOT A 5 Star not knowing it will destory their game

The problem with this is not taking IceIX's response at face-value. Presumably scaling goes off of your actual performance in PvE as opposed to only your roster composition. If you look at the stats on SS, one cover for him will not really be that great of a character. Sure he'll have >10k health, which is a huge tank compared to a 2* roster, but would you really use him much? If all you got was a blue or black cover then he is purely there for match damage/support. A red cover would be best, but it's still only a little over 1k damage initially. For 7 ap that's surely better than anything else you can get in 2* land, but if that's all he can do are you really using him much? And is he helping you win faster/take less damage, which is probably what makes your scaling shoot up?

I know IceIX said these guys will be usable right away but I frankly don't see it. They're gonna need at least a few covers to get more levels to power up their abilities, as well as having a variety of powers and not just the 1 you happened to luckily open first.

GurlBYE

In my experience with characters way over my rosters levels, it didn't effect it too wildly till I had 3 characters that level.

As far as the whole induction to 5. It's very we'll see, but its going to effect everything and I hope they look at all the trickle down.

I'm less worried about peoples scaling then I am, pvp going from, jumping in as a 2** 3*** dude and being everyones stepping stone being unable to reach the 3 at 800 but grabbing 2 and some hp along the way to
jumping in grabbing the pack and not looking because, because the legendary season award is also at a pretty damn high number so people will slurp up every bit of extra points per event.

SnagglePuss

Scaling will be somewhat affected but it may have a bigger impact on MMR.
A couple of our guys were 1*-2* transitioners and naturally they added the 4* covers as they came. This seemed to suddenly put them open to max 166 3* teams in PvP, eventually as their 2* finally overtook the 4* lvl and pushed onwards to lvl94 where boosted characters helped it mattered less. It was hell for about a month or two for them. If something similar occurs where you are suddenly out in the open for 4* teams for having Surfer in the game...

Now they can easily (or maybe not) add some code checking your roster lvl and if you have a 5* or not, possibly for the PvE side as well but.

Also 4* will be boosted later when there are enough 5* in the game, that itself points to a flawed design in the game. Beit from characters that aren't balanced or lack of separation for different levels (PvE/PvP). There shouldn't be a need to artificially boost characters to balance and encourage players unless that was the original design itself.