** Daken (Dark Avengers) **

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Comments

  • Chemical reaction strikes me as one of those powers that does more than it should. Super cheap and capable of good damage. Comes with the drawback of removing strike tiles. Sounds like a solid power as just that, but then it also makes more green tiles...why? Why should a 5 cost power have a component that feeds its own damage multiplier. makes sense to remove blue tiles to make heat more likely but it often makes more strike tiles upon casting (with the green ap to go with it) removing the severity of its drawback by a lot?

    For what it does this is a 8-10 cost power set at the bargain price of 5. If it converted blue tiles into any other non-green color it would be slightly more balanced. If it just destroyed some blue tiles it would be slightly more balanced.

    It really shouldn't have any chance of making more strike tiles while removing strike tiles...

    Conceptually the cost is justified because removing blue tiles may cause Daken to lose health.

    Realistically Daken is someone you just don't touch until you can kill him from 100% to 0% and even if he loses a few % health here and there it's not enough reason to go after him first because it's very easy for the blue tiles to replenish and undoing whatever damage you did. If Healing & Heat's threshold was 9 blue that might be justified, but it's 5 for 2* Daken (less than 6) and that almost never happens.
  • Most of the people posting here has already transitioned and don't care about 2* Daken. So nerf him, right? The solution is not to crapify a good character that was just made playable with a third power. Reviewing how PvE works is the solution. If he gets too powerful due to scaling, than reduce the scaling. If you can't do that, remove his third power from the PvE. It is as simple as that.
  • Chemical reaction strikes me as one of those powers that does more than it should. Super cheap and capable of good damage. Comes with the drawback of removing strike tiles. Sounds like a solid power as just that, but then it also makes more green tiles...why? Why should a 5 cost power have a component that feeds its own damage multiplier. makes sense to remove blue tiles to make heat more likely but it often makes more strike tiles upon casting (with the green ap to go with it) removing the severity of its drawback by a lot?

    For what it does this is a 8-10 cost power set at the bargain price of 5. If it converted blue tiles into any other non-green color it would be slightly more balanced. If it just destroyed some blue tiles it would be slightly more balanced.

    It really shouldn't have any chance of making more strike tiles while removing strike tiles...
    I think you outlined it pretty well.

    Pros:
    low cost
    big damage
    generates green

    Cons:
    Removes strike tiles
    removes blue tiles, making heat occur more often


    If that cost 10, it would never be used because farming blue and forcing heat wouldn't be worth it.
    Daken players would just ignore blue altogether.

    It has to be a low cost because if it were a high cost, it would literally never be farmed for, except for the stupid AI.

    It may be used in emergencies if you happened to have 10 blue AP from a cascade or something. But it would never be a feature of his.

    Then he'd be back to a 2 ability character with a higher level cap.

    A better solution may be lowering the damage so it isn't quite as devastating when spammed.

    But I'm wondering if it even needs to be adjusted when its really only a problem when the AI is using it at level 395. It was voted the 4th best blue ability, so it is strong, but not overbearing, according to the community.
  • IamTheDangerIamTheDanger Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,093 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phantron wrote:
    tobi69 wrote:
    5 blue AP chemical reaction is so cheap and deals damage.
    This is annoying because PVE should be easier than PVP for it not requires top roster in able to compete, requires only time and grinding mentality,lol. "whoever has ears, let them hears" icon_lol.gif

    Here is what I just dont get. The scaling for weak rosters is fine, but for heavy ones, enemies scale up to 400. Why is it different? Why dont the enemies scale for a full maxed roster exactly the way they do for 1 star.png - 2 star.png rosters?

    Maybe someone from D3 could explain this to me please. I know the devs want to give new players a better chance, but isn't that what rubberbanding is for? (I think I'll add this to my monthly Q & A post)

    The enemy scale differently because max roster used to have an advantage beyond their levels. Pre nerf Magneto and Spiderman are way more powerful than adding 60 or so levels to a level 2*. Even someone like pre nerf Daken which is far from broken fights way above adding his level would indicate. I was using Daken in LR and I think at level 249 now, his Phermone Rage is roughly as strong as he was before nerf at level 166, and Daken isn't exactly weak right now either.

    Of course the problem is now that they have fixed most of the max roster's unreasonably large advantages the extra scaling is no longer justified. I guess there is still Sentry, but Sentry bombing just doesn't work very well in PvE because you've to play a lot of games and PvE guys tend to have ways to deal with The Hood, one of the most important pieces to the Sentry bomb, that PvP teams cannot (like generating AP out of thin air from goons). Yes there's also X Force, but X Force already applies an extra tough scaling factor if you've him at 270 (probably the same as any other 4*, but he's the most likely 4* to be seen at 270).

    Ok. That sounds right to me. So, since they nerfed all the OP characters that made 395 Hulk, Daken, Rags, Bullseye, and Venom possible to defeat, then it's time they reduce the scaling. With the characters available, I can take on level 200 enemies without too much difficulty. With boosts, maybe 250 enemies or 275. Maybe even 300. But doing 395 opponents over and over is ridiculous.
  • onimus wrote:
    Chemical reaction strikes me as one of those powers that does more than it should. Super cheap and capable of good damage. Comes with the drawback of removing strike tiles. Sounds like a solid power as just that, but then it also makes more green tiles...why? Why should a 5 cost power have a component that feeds its own damage multiplier. makes sense to remove blue tiles to make heat more likely but it often makes more strike tiles upon casting (with the green ap to go with it) removing the severity of its drawback by a lot?

    For what it does this is a 8-10 cost power set at the bargain price of 5. If it converted blue tiles into any other non-green color it would be slightly more balanced. If it just destroyed some blue tiles it would be slightly more balanced.

    It really shouldn't have any chance of making more strike tiles while removing strike tiles...
    I think you outlined it pretty well.

    Pros:
    low cost
    big damage
    generates green

    Cons:
    Removes strike tiles
    removes blue tiles, making heat occur more often


    If that cost 10, it would never be used because farming blue and forcing heat wouldn't be worth it.
    Daken players would just ignore blue altogether.

    It has to be a low cost because if it were a high cost, it would literally never be farmed for, except for the stupid AI.

    It may be used in emergencies if you happened to have 10 blue AP from a cascade or something. But it would never be a feature of his.

    Then he'd be back to a 2 ability character with a higher level cap.

    A better solution may be lowering the damage so it isn't quite as devastating when spammed.

    But I'm wondering if it even needs to be adjusted when its really only a problem when the AI is using it at level 395. It was voted the 4th best blue ability, so it is strong, but not overbearing, according to the community.

    Even the 200+ Dakens hurt quite a bit. And there are many ways it could be tweaked (not that it will) I just cannot see how a 5 ap power that makes greens on top of everything else it does is justified by the
    dev team how did that even come into the equation? 5 blue AP is the same as ATU, which if ATU also removed protect tiles and did damage would seem about right, but that is just wishful thinking at this point.
  • This order of colors in the poll is very confusing. Please change it like it is in the game, i.e. purpletile.png / blacktile.png / bluetile.png

    I have a 3/5/5 Daken. One of my alliance mates asked if he should respec to my build. He has a 4/4/5. Looking at the descriptions, I'm stumped. The strike tile increase from 3 purpletile.png to 4 is very little. 34-->40. The decrease in healing is confusing. I'm not sure if the strike tile damage increase is worth it. 5 blacktile.png covers needs at least 6 blacktile.png tiles on the board to avoid "Heat" while 4 needs 7.
  • KevinMark wrote:
    This order of colors in the poll is very confusing. Please change it like it is in the game, i.e. purpletile.png / blacktile.png / bluetile.png

    I have a 3/5/5 Daken. One of my alliance mates asked if he should respec to my build. He has a 4/4/5. Looking at the descriptions, I'm stumped. The strike tile increase from 3 purpletile.png to 4 is very little. 34-->40. The decrease in healing is confusing. I'm not sure if the strike tile damage increase is worth it. 5 blacktile.png covers needs at least 6 blacktile.png tiles on the board to avoid "Heat" while 4 needs 7.
    I think this also depends on your play style.
    I too have 4/4/5 Daken. I find 3/5/5 better when running Daken where I depend on him a lot to take big attacks and need him to heal quicker, or when my strike tiles are not sticking around that long, perhaps due to Juggernaut or other board shufflers.
    I find 4/4/5 better just because on offense I care more about strike tiles, and 5/3/5 tends to die accidentally too much. Also I often run him with Wolverine, who also tanks, so I can handle 2 non-simultaneous big hits without having to use first aid kits; the 3% heal rate is usually enough for this.
    I find 5/5/3 better on defense, as the AI tends to use Daken's Blue prematurely anyways, and having the strongest strike tiles makes more sense.
  • TrisulTrisul Age Unconfirmed Posts: 887 Critical Contributor
    Trisul wrote:
    Finally got my 4th blue cover, so I had a chance to test 5/4/4.

    I hate it.

    I love the boosted blue damage for sure, raising his damage potential by ~400. I think I'm definitely going to go 5 on it. But having 4 black makes his healing a lot more inconsistent than I expected, especially since you match blue more often due to its value going up.

    For now, I'm planning on testing 3/5/5 as the potential optimal build, maybe 4/5/4. But for me, 5 black definitely feels like a must.
    I'm amending my opinion on this. I didn't like 4/4/5 because I ran a duo with him with 2*/3* Wolverine, which meant Blue was third on the priority list. When that's the case, having 5 black helps, since you're actively matching blue.

    However, when running Daken in a trio, or when paired with someone with 3 actives, the matching priority of blue goes down. I found myself with a lot more blue on the board in general, and 4/4/5 felt great. Maybe even 5/4/4 would be okay.

    Dropping to 3 black seems pretty brutal, I don't think I can ever do it.
  • MarcusGravesMarcusGraves Posts: 494 Mover and Shaker
    I tried 4/4/5 for a week before scrambling to put a 5th cover back into heat and healing. noticed no real difference in damage output going from a 34 to 40 strength strike tile but I did notice how often my daken's health was actually dipping from using chemical reaction or there not being enough blues on the board in general to the point where he was actually getting pushed close to death a lot.

    only needing 6 blue on the board is a really huge boost to his defense and PR is really just there to feed chemical reaction strike tiles and provide a minor damage boost until you decide to whack someone with reaction.
  • running 3/5/5 right now, and loving it.

    But I have the option to go 4/5/4, but I dunnoooooo.... those last two covers took forever to get.

    this tandem works best with 2 star wolvie.
  • Trisul wrote:
    Trisul wrote:

    However, when running Daken in a trio, or when paired with someone with 3 actives, the matching priority of blue goes down. I found myself with a lot more blue on the board in general, and 4/4/5 felt great. Maybe even 5/4/4 would be okay.

    Dropping to 3 black seems pretty brutal, I don't think I can ever do it.

    This is what I do. I don't generally run an active blue BESIDES Chemical. So I leave it at 5. If he drops health for a while, it's usually back to full by the time I'm exhausted chasing Green/Yellow matches at the start of the next match. It's wildly sustainable. And no, there aren't always enough strike tiles to burn with Chemical, but it's better for defense and it is just generally more offensive. It also gives your team some attack strength on defense if the opponent is hogging green and basically forcing your team to match blue. I definitely prefer 4/4/5.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    With his nerf, having purple maxed makes no sense anymore. We are talking a few points here and there on the strike tile damage vs having a massive nuke on his blue. I went 4/4/5 and love it, I even thought about going 3/5/5, not because I don't heal enough, but due to his smaller health pool, being able to heal even a few percentages higher could save him.
  • So the OP only has the lv15, basic level strenght of the purpleflag.png strike tiles. Which is the difference in power between 4 and 5 purpleflag.png at lv94?

    I know that 3 covers is 34 and 4 covers is 40.
  • john1620bjohn1620b Age Unconfirmed Posts: 367
    Max levels are listed for every ability in the original post. purpleflag.png creates a strength 46 strike tile at 5 covers, level 94.
  • He just doesn't seem to be worth a roster spot for me.
  • john1620b wrote:
    Max levels are listed for every ability in the original post. purpleflag.png creates a strength 46 strike tile at 5 covers, level 94.
    So from 34 to 46, it really isnt a big deal to leave it 355 at all then.
  • After some thought I settled on 3 purpletile.png. Missing required number of tiles loses you net 8% of his hp and is crucial if you want to use him as shield before enemy launches their special. Loosing 30% strike.png damage hardly matter, it's rather weak anyway and serves as amunition for his blueflag.png (and to be boosted by Falcon). I find 5 bluetile.png also important so that single attack with it is strong enough and you can largely ignore the colour and focus on getting others (Red/Green), most enemies in 2* range don't have bluetile.png powers so it is harmless to let them collect it.

    I'm using trio of 94 2* Wolv/2*Daken/BP in shield simulator and some PvE fights and it's really effective and fun team - strike.png from greentile.png and yellowtile.png, blacktile.png is tanked by Daken, BP tanks Yellow (which lets Wolv heal in back) and you have 5 active different colour abilities.
  • Cry-HavokCry-Havok Age Unconfirmed Posts: 10
    Why is so hard know to get Daken 2* covers then before?
    I know it's random (so calm down).
    But now you get more BW and Storm covers now then ever before.
  • QuebbsterQuebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    Why not post this here instead of creating an unnecessary new thread?
    Personally, I feel I get too many Daken covers. Would love to get more Magneto covers while he's still worth HP...
  • MinoxMinox Posts: 36 Just Dropped In
    Lots of useful information in this thread, but sadly I'm never sure if people are using in game color order or the one for this thread. So here is the question
    I am using 2* Thor (3/5/5) and 2* OBW (3/5/5) and would like to pair them with 2* Daken since I have the covers for him. I am unsure however of how to build him to maximize effectiveness in my team.

    I'm hesitating between 4/4/5 and 3/5/5. My reasoning behind 5 blue is that he can add some decent burst damage if needed and the other 2 abilities don't seem all that impressive at 5 covers vs 4 covers.

    Any experience with this combination?
    Thanks for the help!
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