If you have a complaint with the game...

lukewin

If you have a complaint with the game, or are demanding an end to this or that that should be changed, your complaints are likely to fall on deaf ears. Why? Because your complaints, while vocal, are exactly that, a vocal minority. I'm pretty sure the devs (Demiurge) and the publisher (D3) have an idea of where they want the game to go. It sucks that they don't share that with us, but who said they had to? If you want to stop playing, and think others will as well, because of how the game is or how you think it will be, then that is something that you can control; what you can't control, is the direction the devs and the publisher are aiming for.

Too many 4*s being introduced? You can't cover max or level max all the 4*s? Boo hoo, who said you had to? You get no benefit from having everyone maxed. If you want to have everyone maxed, then that is a choice you are making. There are ways to get everyone cover maxed and level maxed; unfortunately, it means that you'll have to buy covers and ISO. You don't want to do that? Then guess what, you won't have cover maxed and level maxed 4*s. If you go to an all you can eat buffet, are you gonna eat everything because it's there or are you going to eat all that you want to? The amount that you eat is in your control. The amount of food that is there, is not.

PVE and PVP. Those are terms we give to the game. If you're paying attention to the video Q&A's, the devs (Demiurge) make sure to refer to them as Versus and Story events. They call nodes pins. They have their way, and we have our way. If you don't like how the PVEs are competitive, then don't play. Leave the competition for the ones that don't mind competing for covers. If you're whining about PVE being competitive, who said that it wasn't supposed to be? The game has always been that way, the amount of covers rewarded is low, but that's the way the devs want it. They've actually increased it, putting it in line with the amount of 3* covers that are rewarded. Most of the people that complain about PVE complain, but still play. So you're sending a mixed message. We hate how it is, but we will continue to play. If you want to send a clear message, don't play. Pretty simple, leave competitive PVE to me and the others that are willing to play it. Sure, there are better ways, a la progression rewards, but until they decide it will happen, you're stuck with how it is. Deal with it.

It may sound like I'm white-knighting for the devs, but it's actually the opposite. I'd love more communication, which did come with the August sneak peek. I'm pretty sure the devs hate me. I am f2p, but I don't discourage people that want to pay. I encourage them to only pay for roster slots, because everything else has a diminishing return, where you might have buyers remorse when you pull the cover you pay for or are disappointed with the covers you pulled from packs. I called them out on their lack of communication, which still stands, especially with the 3* on the 10 pks for the Gauntlet. When they announced stuff on reddit and other places than the official forums for the game, I pointed it out. The more time you spend complaining, the more time people like me, are passing you in PVE. Complaining and demanding stuff is not gonna get you anywhere. For every person that agrees with your complaints, there are probably 10 people that aren't even aware of them, and they're paying/playing.

There's plenty of things I'd want them to improve. But instead of complaining/whining and trying to get them to change their ways, I'd rather find out their ways, and make the most out of it so I can make the most of what I can control. I actually started the bracket count threads, with a Juggernaut heroic thread. If you don't believe me, I'll look it up and post it. I would prefer people make their decisions based on knowing how things work. That's why in my sig, there's a rookie mistakes link. Others should be able to read and learn, as opposed to repeat the same mistakes. You may think it's gaming the system, but I would say it's learning the system, and making informed choices that are most beneficial to you.

Really glad downvotes have been removed, because I'm pretty sure this post would get downvoted to oblivion. Pretty sure a lot of the white knights that might approve of this post, I'd probably wish they didn't, because I don't like their opinions on most other things. One of the reasons I visited the forums less has already retired, supposedly. Less complaining threads, would have me visiting more often. I'd rather the forums be dead and only have informative info or discussions about the game, than it be alive with complaints and people whining.

evil panda

I agree with you that this forum whines too much, and when feedback is presented in the wrong way it gets really tiresome.

But the devs have implemented a lot of changes based on our feedback here on this forum, so I think it has definitely been constructive as well.

I'm not clear if you're saying that we should all shut up and accept things entirely, and if so, I disagree. But I definitely agree that whining and unreasonable demands aren't going to get us anywhere, and just annoy the rest of the forum readers

Lloyd Christmas

The only complaint I have is that the only way to get new covers is by playing on a schedule that is determined by the game developers. That's not a game, it's a lifestyle change. So I don't play PvE anymore, I spend time with my family. That being said, it would be nice if there was a way for me to get new covers without changing my life. I don't think that's too much to ask for.

GurlBYE

'Guys Stop giving feedback, stop playing. they give you enough, they're trying. don't like it too bad don't play don't play"



If they'd agreed with you, odds are the forums wouldn't exist.

If the 'whining' bothers YOU so much take your own advice and avoid the threads in the forum not created by devs.

Linkster79

Good advice,. I am sure activists from around the world both past and present wish they had heard that advice sooner to save themselves some time and effort. Dr King Jr, you had it all wrong and should have just accepted your lot in life and dealt with it.

Change will never happen unless people ask, nay demand change and it is usually the minorities campaigning for change that starts a snowball of other campaigners wanting change.

I for one shall continue to give feedback as I see fit, sometimes it will be constructive, other times it may not and my dear OP if you don't like it then deal with and accept it.

lukewin

GurlBYE wrote:

'Guys Stop giving feedback, stop playing. they give you enough, they're trying. don't like it too bad don't play don't play"



If they'd agreed with you, odds are the forums wouldn't exist.

If the 'whining' bothers YOU so much take your own advice and avoid the threads in the forum not created by devs.

Yeah, so you're completely missing the point. There's a difference between offering feedback and complaining/whining/demanding changes. Generally, when people demand things, it seems to come with an air of entitlement. And that's usually not the best way to get change to happen. If you think that they're not giving enough now, then it's a good thing you weren't playing before. A lot of the complaint threads seem to be because people are impatient or uninformed about the game. Things aren't going to happen overnight, and people seem to expect things to happen right away. The only time changes will happen overnight, is if there are mistakes that are in the players' favor.

Not sure if you were a lurker before you joined the forums, but if not, then all you know of the forums is how they currently are. There used to not be a million complaint threads. It used to be a fun place to go to discuss the game and vent when there were problems. There were complaint threads, but they were the minority, where now they are the majority. And the thing is, those threads are repeats of multiple threads of the same issues that are just reposted and reposted, in different terms and by different people. They may be new issues and complaints to you, but for people that have been on the forums for a while, it's nothing new, and it just gets tiring to see the same issues being brought up by people new to the forums.

lukewin

evil panda wrote:

I agree with you that this forum whines too much, and when feedback is presented in the wrong way it gets really tiresome.

But the devs have implemented a lot of changes based on our feedback here on this forum, so I think it has definitely been constructive as well.

I'm not clear if you're saying that we should all shut up and accept things entirely, and if so, I disagree. But I definitely agree that whining and unreasonable demands aren't going to get us anywhere, and just annoy the rest of the forum readers

Yes, when feedback is presented in the wrong way, the content gets lost in the delivery. The devs have implemented a lot of changes based on our feedback, so it does work (they stopped doing Heroics way back, before the restructuring, they stopped doing concurrent subs and 12/36 hr subs, they introduced time slices, many other examples).

Definitely not saying to shut up and accept things. I'd say that the whining and unreasonable demands and complaint threads aren't gonna do anything but annoy the rest of the forum readers, while a constructive feedback post would do a lot more and be more likely to get people behind it. There are a lot of complaint threads that I agree with the point, but I don't want to get behind because of the way the message is being delivered.

binarypillbug

Linkster79 wrote:

Good advice,. I am sure activists from around the world both past and present wish they had heard that advice sooner to save themselves some time and effort. Dr King Jr, you had it all wrong and should have just accepted your lot in life and dealt with it.

Change will never happen unless people ask, nay demand change and it is usually the minorities campaigning for change that starts a snowball of other campaigners wanting change.

dude we're talking about a video game

Pylgrim

Excellent post! Though I wonder if I classify as one of those "white knights" whose upvote is reviled. Though I have to say that many posters already are getting whipped into a froth for misinterpreting what the OP is actually trying to say, which is something that happened to me all the time before I decided to be less outspoken about these kind of matters, and what earned me that WK title.

mjh

lukewin wrote:

Most of the people that complain about PVE complain, but still play. So you're sending a mixed message. We hate how it is, but we will continue to play. If you want to send a clear message, don't play

This is the solution. But this in itself is a double edge sword. If we could all organize, stop playing "Story" mode to show D3 that this is not fun, there would be too much temptation to jump in a bracket that has little to no movement where you could cruise to top rewards for minimal play, not even caring about refreshes or anything. People who were also on board, taking a stance against this **** and not playing would see this, jump in hoping to get rewards for minimal play, that would compound upon itself and we would be back to where we are now.

Vhailorx

Pylgrim wrote:

Excellent post! Though I wonder if I classify as one of those "white knights" whose upvote is reviled. Though I have to say that many posters already are getting whipped into a froth for misinterpreting what the OP is actually trying to say, which is something that happened to me all the time before I decided to be less outspoken about these kind of matters, and what earned me that WK title.

Pylgrim you are definitely among the whitest of white knights on these forums!

Lukewin: To the extent that you are recommending that people moderate the tone of their feedback and express themselves in a polite and constructive way: great!

But on first read your post does come across more as a rote criticism of people who post negative feedback on the forums. I know you recognized this is a risk of your post because you included several caveats. But statements like this:

If you don't like how the PVEs are competitive, then don't play. Leave the competition for the ones that don't mind competing for covers

and

Complaining and demanding stuff is not gonna get you anywhere. For every person that agrees with your complaints, there are probably 10 people that aren't even aware of them, and they're paying/playing

are basically telling people that if they don't like the game, the problem with them and not the game.

It is entirely true that some complaints are ridiculous and unreasonable (personally, I find the weekly "why is the ai cheating with crazy cascades!?" thread entirely tedious), but that definitely does mean that no one should post their opinions, or that feedback on the forums cannot and should not have an impact on the game.

I appreciate that you added some like "it's nice when people give constructive feedback. . ." but that only came in later posts responding to other people. I think your original post more or less glossed over the idea of positive feedback, which is probably why you will get a bunch of rude responses.

ClydeFrog76

If people can't complain and voice their opinions with other players here, where can they do it?

Pretty sure that's the point of a forum.

GothicKratos

There's two important things to remember when you wish to file a complaint about something (assuming you want it to be taken seriously):

1.) Tone. You set the tone in your message. If you come off as a brat, you're going to be treated like one. Think of it this way; if you're a cashier at McDonald's and you storm the front counter yelling and throwing things, what's your instant assumption? They're an asshat and I don't want do to this guy any favours. It's human nature. You give him his replacement or whatever and get him away. On the other hand, if someone is nice to you, explain the mistake, and they're cordial and understanding, there's a fair chance you'll likely to get better service, right?

2.) Pick your battles. We all have that friend. You know? That guy that complains about everything - like that time he got two Klondike bars instead of one and his stomach hurt for like twenty minutes afterwards. Yeah, you know him. What's your opinion of him? He's kinda a dunce right? And you rarely take his complaints without a grain of salt, right? Remember that when you queue up your righteous indignation.

(Edit: And I know for a fact I'm one of the white knights that lukewin doesn't want upvoting his post, but I did it just to spite him! )

lukewin

Vhailorx wrote:

Lukewin: To the extent that you are recommending that people moderate the tone of their feedback and express themselves in a polite and constructive way: great!

But on first read your post does come across more as a rote criticism of people who post negative feedback on the forums. I know you recognized this is a risk of your post because you included several caveats. But statements like this:

If you don't like how the PVEs are competitive, then don't play. Leave the competition for the ones that don't mind competing for covers

and

Complaining and demanding stuff is not gonna get you anywhere. For every person that agrees with your complaints, there are probably 10 people that aren't even aware of them, and they're paying/playing

are basically telling people that if they don't like the game, the problem with them and not the game.

It is entirely true that some complaints are ridiculous and unreasonable (personally, I find the weekly "why is the ai cheating with crazy cascades!?" thread entirely tedious), but that definitely does mean that no one should post their opinions, or that feedback on the forums cannot and should not have an impact on the game.

I appreciate that you added some like "it's nice when people give constructive feedback. . ." but that only came in later posts responding to other people. I think your original post more or less glossed over the idea of positive feedback, which is probably why you will get a bunch of rude responses.

Well, I was drunk when I wrote the first post, so I was just ranting but trying not to be too offensive, while still getting my point across. It did take some clarification posts to clear things up.

Unknown

Oh my God, this forum...

Some days.

Perhaps we should just have pages of "most positive moment in MPQ" threads?

Seriously, if people don't like something, and a forum exists (literally) for them to share their thoughts, I would hope the people producing the item in question would be smart enough to understand that there simply is no better form of direct feedback.

Feeling like a broken record for repeating myself yet again...

if something with D3 is good, I'll say it. If something isn't? Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and discuss it, in the hopes that D3 is even marginally interested in their single best source of actionable feedback.

DBC

Pylgrim

OP: "Don't be sad, people. If you'd be sad, be awesome instead!"
People: "wah, we're sad because you are forbidding us to be sad!"
OP: *sigh*

Unknown

Pylgrim wrote:

OP: "Don't be sad, people. If you'd be sad, be awesome instead!"
People: "wah, we're sad because you are forbidding us to be sad!"
OP: *sigh*

Oh, the irony...

DBC

TLCstormz

Why hasn't this user been flagged for trolling / flame baiting / etc?