Pre-nerf Jean? Or are 4*'s balanced against 4*'s?

Phaserhawk

So I was taking another look at Jean and started to realize how way out of line her purple is, unless she is being balanced against 4* health pools.

Right now the top 3 dmg to AP team damage in 4* are

1.) Carnage 1217 dmg per AP
2.)Star Lord 932 dmg per AP, 1165 if yellow tile out
3.)Thor 538 dmg per AP

Top 3*
---
1.)Black Panther -- 927 dmg per AP
2.)Deadpool --871 dmg per AP
3.)KK 847 dmg per AP.

Jean's currently, for her purple is 1166 dmg per AP, while that automatically makes her about tied at #2 with 4*, both Carnage and StarLord come with conditions, Carnage does massive own team dmg, and StarLord's is on a 2 turn CD tile. If Jean is being balanced against 4* and buffed 3* events, then yeah her dmg is in line, but currently their are no 4* PvP tourney's and if 3*'s aren't buffed, wow, she is in a category by herself.

I'm not so much asking for a nerf if 4*'s, especially with more being released and their higher health pool, are now having their dmg based upon them, because otherwise Jean's needs to come down, because as is she is by far the best AoE damager in the game with that purple, blue and green are fine. Green falls right around the KK range of about 846 dmg per AP, but purple is way out of line. Again if balanced against 4*'s sure I"m okay, but if not her purple AoE neeeds to drop to around 3000 dmg give or take a couple hundred depending on how strong, but 3888 too much if we consider 3*'s in the mix.

notamutant

Phaserhawk wrote:

So I was taking another look at Jean and started to realize how way out of line her purple is, unless she is being balanced against 4* health pools.

Right now the top 3 dmg to AP team damage in 4* are

1.) Carnage 1217 dmg per AP
2.)Star Lord 932 dmg per AP, 1165 if yellow tile out
3.)Thor 538 dmg per AP

Top 3*
---
1.)Black Panther -- 927 dmg per AP
2.)Deadpool --871 dmg per AP
3.)KK 847 dmg per AP.

Jean's currently, for her purple is 1166 dmg per AP, while that automatically makes her about tied at #2 with 4*, both Carnage and StarLord come with conditions, Carnage does massive own team dmg, and StarLord's is on a 2 turn CD tile. If Jean is being balanced against 4* and buffed 3* events, then yeah her dmg is in line, but currently their are no 4* PvP tourney's and if 3*'s aren't buffed, wow, she is in a category by herself.

I'm not so much asking for a nerf if 4*'s, especially with more being released and their higher health pool, are now having their dmg based upon them, because otherwise Jean's needs to come down, because as is she is by far the best AoE damager in the game with that purple, blue and green are fine. Green falls right around the KK range of about 846 dmg per AP, but purple is way out of line. Again if balanced against 4*'s sure I"m okay, but if not her purple AoE neeeds to drop to around 3000 dmg give or take a couple hundred depending on how strong, but 3888 too much if we consider 3*'s in the mix.

While it is worth some consideration, you can't just look at one skill alone on a character and determine if they are OP or not. You have to take everything about the character into consideration. Higher HP? Then they should do less damage or have their moves cost more. For example, while she isn't bottom tier, Jean also isn't higher tier for 4 star HP. What about matches required to use the move? Carnage requires one less 3 match before using his move. What about other moves on the character? Blue is a passive that might never go off the entire match. Also, purple will be useless if there is just one enemy left versus Jean, as opposed to Starlord who can easily finish the guy off with his high damage move. So while yes, this is the most powerful purple in the game for the cost, when considered with everything else about Jean, I don't think it is too bad.

Scoregasms

Didn't they already say 4* are balanced against 4* with the whole XF/4hor above the "perceived acceptable" 4* power line?

Trying to balance between rarities is asking for too much IMO, otherwise, I'd say nerf the 2* since they are insane when overscaled, which we actually see on a regular basis. A 4* should be more powerful pound for pound than lower rarities, that just hasn't really been the case. They need to do something to entice folks into 4* land, otherwise, why bother.

Malcrof

The only change i would make, is to lower her HP. 14k hp is a bit much for someone who packs the kind of whallop her purple and green do, and has an indefensible passive.

cyineedsn

Calling her purple useless against a single target is a bit of an exaggeration. Besides the damage, which is not great, but far from the worst (since there aren't even that many damaging purples!), it also converts special tiles, which in some cases may be extremely valuable. Actually, does it affect invisibility tiles? Has that question been answered already?

Her blue may technically never go off, but it's certainly a deterrent against the numerous (and popular?) ap generator characters that people would normally true to use to quickly dispose of characters with big hitting aoes. How much of a deterrent remains to be seen. But I'd be surprised if we don't start seeing jeans in whale defensive teams.

SnowcaTT

And once again...poor, poor X-Force green. If 4*'s are supposed to be better than 3* AP to damage, his green needs that damage back!

Unknown

I think 4*s should be balanced against 4*s. They cost considerably more, and are considerably more rare.

Elektra is not on par with 4*s. Wolverine and Thor were nerfed. Devil Dino is a novelty. The rest are quite powerful.

Your mileage may vary, of course.

If you had Ant-Man, Hulkbuster, and Professor Xavier fully covered and leveled, what 3* team would give you trouble?

Same question for Starlord, Nick Fury, and Carnage.

You'd have to go all the way to IW, Elektra, Devil Dino before you didn't have an easy win. You'd probably win, but it would take a long time.

I'm just saying 4*s are more powerful, as should they be.

Phaserhawk

Scoregasms wrote:

Didn't they already say 4* are balanced against 4* with the whole XF/4hor above the "perceived acceptable" 4* power line?

Trying to balance between rarities is asking for too much IMO, otherwise, I'd say nerf the 2* since they are insane when overscaled, which we actually see on a regular basis. A 4* should be more powerful pound for pound than lower rarities, that just hasn't really been the case. They need to do something to entice folks into 4* land, otherwise, why bother.

I did not see this, if true then I am totally fine with her damage to AP ratio, but then I 100% agree with Malcrof, her health is way out of line for that kind of damage. She needs to be in Prof X or X-Force (he needs a health boost) range because that's way out of line. Otherwise you need to fix StarLord, Elektra, X-Force, IW, and Fury because she does way more with more, much easier to adjust her thenn everyone else.

Malcrof

Why is everyone so down on Devil Dino, really cheap almost spammable skills, if anything, toss a tile to his attacks, and he is a 4* Psylocke, with MONSTROUS hit points and a disco dance!

san

Malcrof wrote:

Why is everyone so down on Devil Dino, really cheap almost spammable skills, if anything, toss a tile to his attacks, and he is a 4* Psylocke, with MONSTROUS hit points and a disco dance!

Plus he's fun/annoying to play with KK+hood, whether upgraded or not .

Unknown

Malcrof wrote:

Why is everyone so down on Devil Dino, really cheap almost spammable skills, if anything, toss a tile to his attacks, and he is a 4* Psylocke, with MONSTROUS hit points and a disco dance!

Because he's a four star who isn't much more powerful than Psylocke with 13 covers and 270 levels. His value is so far below his cost that few of us are willing to bother with him. It would cost me 17,500 more hero points to cover him, since he is perma-vaulted, and then rather a large quantity of ISO-8 to get those monstrous hit points.

Also, he was created as a joke.

GrimSkald

Vertigozooropa wrote:

Malcrof wrote:

Why is everyone so down on Devil Dino, really cheap almost spammable skills, if anything, toss a tile to his attacks, and he is a 4* Psylocke, with MONSTROUS hit points and a disco dance!

Because he's a four star who isn't much more powerful than Psylocke with 13 covers and 270 levels. His value is so far below his cost that few of us are willing to bother with him. It would cost me 17,500 more hero points to cover him, since he is perma-vaulted, and then rather a large quantity of ISO-8 to get those monstrous hit points.

Also, he was created as a joke.

Hey, we may get another crack at him in a few months!

babinro

Pre-Nerf Jean in my opinion.

The Comparison of Jean's purple against Star-Lord's Purple and Fury's purple should say it all. These are both characters with comparable health.

Star-Lord deals thousands less damage and has the drawback of having to protect a CD tile to make it happen. It's hard to argue that SL's replace any tile benefit is strictly better than Jean's replace 6 enemy specialty tiles.

Fury deals less damage to a single target than Jean deals to the entire team. Further more he has to protect a random CD tile to get the benefit of a single above average strike tile and AP drain that's difficult to time in order to be used effectively. All of this for 12 AP instead of 10.

Jean's AP to damage ratio is 2nd to Carnage and yet Carnage is focused on damaging your own team. A significant drawback that prevents reliable sustained play.

Nothing about Jean's purple feels balanced. It's straight up pushed even though doing so doesn't make the character overpowered. Jean's purple needs a nerf simply because it's design makes no sense within the established rules of this game. It's as though they meant it to be single target but accidentally went live with it as an AoE.