4* Land Observations

gpep024

As a 200+ day player who has spent more $ than I would like to admit.... the current influx of 4* characters is discouraging.

I see the need for the game to move to a 4* (then eventually 5*) endgame for current vets. But it is still an unitainable goal for the casual player like myself.
Sure new 4* are an easier reward for a 7 day event when they are released; but it brings out All the players who don't have other obligations (work, school, life) and I'm lucky to finish top 200(or lower).
Having to grind out rewards in PVE seems counterintuitive.
"So its an open event but I'm playing against other people; wait; I can't move them down? So how do I pull ahead in scoring? Oh, I missed a 'refresh' on day 1 so now I'm behind and it's impossible to get ahead (even with identical rosters).

I guess my point is:

We really need more progression rewards in pve. 4* included. Just add more every 1 or 2 thousand on current model. Or increase the drop rates on 3 and 4*( just stop incuding 2* in eventokens)

I get that they don't wanna give stuff away but wait; give it away please if you're gonna keep PVE essentials.

Love this game but gets me frustrated.

optimus2861

Vhailorx wrote:

2) 3* land is more or less dead and perhaps it should be trimmed. 40 3*s is way too many for an intermediate tier of play (Especially when only about 10 are actively useful). It seems like this will be a problem for demiurge moving forward. The player base is fragmenting and it is very hard to serve every segment.

"Trimmed"? No sale. You can't just delete characters that players have in their rosters and not provide significant compensation. And D3 isn't about to provide that compensation.

3) 5*s need to be introduced.

You & I have gone back & forth on this one already. I'll reiterate my stance that a 5* tier marks the destruction of this game as we know it. It's a signal to potential new players that the game is hostile to newbies, a signal to current 3* transitioners that they will never reach the top of the hill absent mega-whaling, and a signal to current 4* players to reach deep into their wallets to have any hope of levelling up the new shinies.

The only way a 5* tier makes any sense whatsoever is if they are in completely separate prize brackets from the 2*/3* playerbase. I.e. you must have "X" 4* characters/covers in your roster already to qualify for the 5* bracket; otherwise you play for regular 3* rewards. Given that D3 has shown absolutely no interest in setting up brackets in this fashion, I'd give this a very remote chance of happening.

Right now averagely-rostered vets like me and superwhales like colog are both competing for the same 4* rewards. That's untenable. Either the rewards are reasonable for me, in which case colog loses interest because they are too easy, or they are a good challenge for colog, and thus too hard for me.

Developers can't tailor games to fit the desires of the superwhales. They do anyway, because $$$, but it inevitably hurts the overall structure of the game as time passes. Go look at the size of the 5* tier in Star Wars: Force Collection sometime as an example. I couldn't even contemplate restarting that game now. I played for months as F2P and had a grand total of 2 playable 5* cards. The drop rates were never adjusted to account for the much larger pool of those cards; the original structure of the game was just never intended to have that many. But the whales whaled, so what did the developer care?

4) Related to #2, but new player progression will have to be kicked into overdrive. New players are now expected to build through three tiers of play before reaching and endgame. And with 4* and 3* essentials in pve, most new players will have a difficult time leveraging their lower scaling because they will likely be missing one or two thirds of the essential nodes. Plus with 40 3*s in the token pool, it will require a lot of roster space to survive those brutal early months of play.

You're not wrong about this though. I have 34 of the 40 3* on my roster, so what do a run of tokens spit at me yesterday? 2 of the 6 I'm missing and nothing else. Of course I haven't the HP to roster anyone at the moment, because of this game's obscene roster slot 'tax' setup. Immensely frustrating.

Unknown

The top can never be obtainable so there always has to be shifting sands. If you max everything without a new PC there is no reward beyond helping your alliance out. There is can be no end like the torment of Sisyphus like a PVP with no end date, every time you sleep drop 100's of points, take hours to grind back, no shields.....

rawfsu

I would love to hear the perspective from a new player on this topic. I'm at Day 468 and no where NEAR what I would call a 4* transition. I have NO maxed 4* to speak of, my highest one being Invisible Woman at 7 covers. If the game moves on to 5*, I'm WAY behind the curve. I'm pretty much F2P, paying $20 once during Anniversary Sale for 6 roster slots. I was becoming dominant in PVP until the point change, now I MIGHT finish top 100 twice in a season. My only hope for 4* covers are PVE, 10-pack pull for season rewards, or plain lucky draws. In other words, I'm feeling pretty left out of the 4* transition. I'm holding out that perhaps Growth Industry will become a regular occurrence for other 4* covers, but we'll see what happens. For now, I feel like a player on the outside looking in, especially based on how many days I've been playing. What do other players at the 400+ day mark feel?

GrumpySmurf1002

rawfsu wrote:

I would love to hear the perspective from a new player on this topic.
What do other players at the 400+ day mark feel?

I'm confused by this paradox, but anyway, I'm not that far ahead of you at day 522. The Thor yellow @day 520 gave me 4* #6 that I cover maxed. I did buy four PX covers, because there was a sale and $33 to make non-heroic PvE easier was well worth it.

I'm honestly surprised when I see players who have solid, deep 3* rosters saying they can't get to 1k, let alone your case of not even getting top 100 (You must not be shielding).

All I can recommend is reach out to alliance mates that can get there. If no one in your alliance can, then reach outside the alliance, either through LINE or the forums. There are multiple strategies to do so, some cost more than others, some require more scheduling than others, but they are strategies. I will say its tough to do without a gameplan, but if you have one, as long as your roster has any strength to it, it's trivial.

Malcrof

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

[
I'm honestly surprised when I see players who have solid, deep 3* rosters saying they can't get to 1k, let alone your case of not even getting top 100 (You must not be shielding).

I have yet to hit 1k in anything but shield sim, came close, only to get beat down before i could re-shield, sometimes even after.. and i like to think i have a fairly solid roster.

2nd note.. T100 is pretty easy, even without shields though...right now in Ant-Man i am ranked 26, no shield, no-one is bothering me at all...(this is not a call to snipe me!) It just takes a little luck and a little "meh, probably an easier match out there somewhere" skips when they see you.

Vhailorx

I agree that top 100 in PvP and 1k prog rewards is very achievable for anyone with a deep 3* roster (depth is key because depth means that you will probably be able to use a boosted team).

Some things to think about if you are having trouble:

1) what time slice are you in and when are you playing

2) are you playing in big chunks or a game here and there. Its much better to play concentrated sets of games, and it's mandatory to do that above you equilibrium point.

3) strategically using shields is far more cost effective than buying token packs, or direct buying covers outright. That said, multiple hops can get expensive.

I would encourage people having trouble getting 1k to check with their alliance mates or the tips and guides board because they might be able to get further in PvP than they think.

Polares

4 are the new focus, you are right on that front, but now it is easier than ever to get 4s, they need to make 4 a progression reward in PvE and maybe continuously have Gauntlet available, and rerun PvE events for old 4 and then that will make availability ok.

And about 5, you really are crazy . You are saying there are not enough 4 and you want 5?!?!? So basically you want to turn 4 into 3 making them easy to get as 3 and the new 5 into the old 4. I suppose now you are starting to see that what you said makes no sense. Then when we have the 5 we will need 6s, and then 7s, etc. etc. If D3 create 5s it will be the end. If they ever use 5 should be like super enemies, but not as chars for players (basically the only 5 should be Thanos).


4 need to be special, so the rate they award them is not that bad. The real problem is the speed of creation of new 4s. They are being released to fast, but D3 has a problem, because now 4 seem the only way of making us play. D3 needs to present new events more often, like a new event every two weeks, so they can present a new 4 every month, not every two weeks.

GurlBYE

gpep024 wrote:

As a 200+ day player who has spent more $ than I would like to admit.... the current influx of 4* characters is discouraging.

I see the need for the game to move to a 4* (then eventually 5*) endgame for current vets. But it is still an unitainable goal for the casual player like myself.
Sure new 4* are an easier reward for a 7 day event when they are released; but it brings out All the players who don't have other obligations (work, school, life) and I'm lucky to finish top 200(or lower).
Having to grind out rewards in PVE seems counterintuitive.
"So its an open event but I'm playing against other people; wait; I can't move them down? So how do I pull ahead in scoring? Oh, I missed a 'refresh' on day 1 so now I'm behind and it's impossible to get ahead (even with identical rosters).

I guess my point is:

We really need more progression rewards in pve. 4* included. Just add more every 1 or 2 thousand on current model. Or increase the drop rates on 3 and 4*( just stop incuding 2* in eventokens)

I get that they don't wanna give stuff away but wait; give it away please if you're gonna keep PVE essentials.

Love this game but gets me frustrated.

It's super discouraging to see even a player who spent more then they intended still seeing end game as something daunting or un-achievable.

GrumpySmurf1002

Malcrof wrote:

I have yet to hit 1k in anything but shield sim, came close, only to get beat down before i could re-shield, sometimes even after.. and i like to think i have a fairly solid roster.

See above. Especially in this upcoming Thor event. It's not a game problem, it's user error if you don't get there with your roster.

Vhailorx

Polares wrote:

4 are the new focus, you are right on that front, but now it is easier than ever to get 4s, they need to make 4 a progression reward in PvE and maybe continuously have Gauntlet available, and rerun PvE events for old 4 and then that will make availability ok.

And about 5, you really are crazy . You are saying there are not enough 4 and you want 5?!?!? So basically you want to turn 4 into 3 making them easy to get as 3 and the new 5 into the old 4. I suppose now you are starting to see that what you said makes no sense. Then when we have the 5 we will need 6s, and then 7s, etc. etc. If D3 create 5s it will be the end. If they ever use 5 should be like super enemies, but not as chars for players (basically the only 5 should be Thanos).


4 need to be special, so the rate they award them is not that bad. The real problem is the speed of creation of new 4s. They are being released to fast, but D3 has a problem, because now 4 seem the only way of making us play. D3 needs to present new events more often, like a new event every two weeks, so they can present a new 4 every month, not every two weeks.

First of all, please don't confuse my observations with advocacy. I don't particularly want 5*s myself, but I do think they are probably a necessary step for demiurge in the relatively near term.

You say 4*s need to be special, and they are still somewhat special for most 3* players. But the super whales now have 14+ maxed 4*s on their rosters. That doesn't seem very special to me. What will keep them grinding hard in this game if there are no 5*s? Do you feel as enthusiastic about your 35th 3* as you did about your 5th? I can only see 2 ways to keep whales playing: better 4*s (i.e. power creep) or a new tier of play (i.e. 5*s). And of the 2 options, 5*s seem less destructive to the meta (especially if they also make the 3* transition easier).

Malcrof: with your roster you should obliterate this PvP event. Use lazy thor, Luke cage, and someone like Khan who can acelerate yellow or green or black. Then smash everything and have fun.

chamber44

RicoDredd2 wrote:

Having a 4* essential like Hulkbuster in the current PVE highlights this situation rather well IMO. How many average players have such a cover less then 5% I guess so lose out on ISO/Points? Here is a 7 day PVE bad enough but then to lock out 1/3rd of it with a 4 * and for those in 3 * land with no free roster slots a 2 * like Hawkeye is crazy. So a PVE like Hulk is now 2/3rds closed to a player like me with only a mere 53 other characters. Inclusive playing is not part of the ethos here. Not going to burn 700 HP to roster a 2* like Hawkeye when I have 2* elites like Magneto/OBW/Thor and Wolverine instead. Progression reward for this PVE is a Psylocke cover for heavens sake, only top teams will get the Jean Grey cover so no point. Can get a Psylocke cover in DPQ in a few days without grinding away for days this is madness!

totally agree with this. i've been playing for well over a year, but I left my alliance because i can't spend my life grinding for a cover (though it would be easier if D3 would release this game on Steam for Mac). I have 58 roster slots, but Hawkeye's not one of them, and I haven't gotten a chance to score a HB yet.

It's just a bummer when a game like this, that is totally fun, requires so much time (or money) to keep moving forward.

Polares

Vhailorx wrote:

Polares wrote:

4 are the new focus, you are right on that front, but now it is easier than ever to get 4s, they need to make 4 a progression reward in PvE and maybe continuously have Gauntlet available, and rerun PvE events for old 4 and then that will make availability ok.

And about 5, you really are crazy . You are saying there are not enough 4 and you want 5?!?!? So basically you want to turn 4 into 3 making them easy to get as 3 and the new 5 into the old 4. I suppose now you are starting to see that what you said makes no sense. Then when we have the 5 we will need 6s, and then 7s, etc. etc. If D3 create 5s it will be the end. If they ever use 5 should be like super enemies, but not as chars for players (basically the only 5 should be Thanos).


4 need to be special, so the rate they award them is not that bad. The real problem is the speed of creation of new 4s. They are being released to fast, but D3 has a problem, because now 4 seem the only way of making us play. D3 needs to present new events more often, like a new event every two weeks, so they can present a new 4 every month, not every two weeks.

First of all, please don't confuse my observations with advocacy. I don't particularly want 5*s myself, but I do think they are probably a necessary step for demiurge in the relatively near term.

You say 4*s need to be special, and they are still somewhat special for most 3* players. But the super whales now have 14+ maxed 4*s on their rosters. That doesn't seem very special to me. What will keep them grinding hard in this game if there are no 5*s? Do you feel as enthusiastic about your 35th 3* as you did about your 5th? I can only see 2 ways to keep whales playing: better 4*s (i.e. power creep) or a new tier of play (i.e. 5*s). And of the 2 options, 5*s seem less destructive to the meta (especially if they also make the 3* transition easier).

But the thing is, for super whales nothing is special. If 5 get released they will spend money and they will max them right away like they do now with 4s, and then we will need 6, and then 7, etc. 5 are not a solution, it will be the end of the game.

D3 need to slower the pace of 4 creation, and they should speed A LOT the pace of event creation. This way 4 can remain being special, and we all will have new things to play.

Malcrof

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Malcrof wrote:

I have yet to hit 1k in anything but shield sim, came close, only to get beat down before i could re-shield, sometimes even after.. and i like to think i have a fairly solid roster.

See above. Especially in this upcoming Thor event. It's not a game problem, it's user error if you don't get there with your roster.

Yah, i have maxed Thor, maxed Doom (perfect rainbow), and Daken for some annoyance and possible skips (will always use his blue over dooms if strike tiles are out).

The problem with this PVP is that i need them for the PVE as well, which frustrates me to no end.

And yes, i am fully aware that the issue with me not hitting 1k is all on me, few in my alliance are hitting is regularly, with less developed rosters than me.. i think it is mostly because being EST, i pick slices that work on my schedule, so i tend to be playng at the same time as every single person in the slice... what i need to do, is sleep less and play in the wee hours of the morning, because i am rarely ever attacked overnight.

chamber44

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

rawfsu wrote:

I would love to hear the perspective from a new player on this topic.
What do other players at the 400+ day mark feel?

I'm confused by this paradox, but anyway, I'm not that far ahead of you at day 522. The Thor yellow @day 520 gave me 4* #6 that I cover maxed. I did buy four PX covers, because there was a sale and $33 to make non-heroic PvE easier was well worth it.

I'm honestly surprised when I see players who have solid, deep 3* rosters saying they can't get to 1k, let alone your case of not even getting top 100 (You must not be shielding).

All I can recommend is reach out to alliance mates that can get there. If no one in your alliance can, then reach outside the alliance, either through LINE or the forums. There are multiple strategies to do so, some cost more than others, some require more scheduling than others, but they are strategies. I will say its tough to do without a gameplan, but if you have one, as long as your roster has any strength to it, it's trivial.

i'm the same as rawfsu. my highest 4* is a 3/2/1 Nick Fury at 131. Hit 1900 last season, but got beat back before i could get PX.
I badly need to get into a stronger alliance, but there's often a random event (usually the PVE's) that i don't play hard because I don't have time to grind.

TxMoose

chamber44 wrote:

I badly need to get into a stronger alliance, but there's often a random event (usually the PVE's) that i don't play hard because I don't have time to grind.

try the alliance section. there are many, many pvp only alliances. I am in one - deadly united. pve is completely optional and we do NOT rank well because many of the members just don't feel the need to play. I played several last season but only half or less. I merced out for an extra thing cover before last season. look around - if you can hit 800 consistently in pvp you can join a t100 pvp alliance.

GurlBYE

Vhailorx wrote:

Polares wrote:

4 are the new focus, you are right on that front, but now it is easier than ever to get 4s, they need to make 4 a progression reward in PvE and maybe continuously have Gauntlet available, and rerun PvE events for old 4 and then that will make availability ok.

And about 5, you really are crazy . You are saying there are not enough 4 and you want 5?!?!? So basically you want to turn 4 into 3 making them easy to get as 3 and the new 5 into the old 4. I suppose now you are starting to see that what you said makes no sense. Then when we have the 5 we will need 6s, and then 7s, etc. etc. If D3 create 5s it will be the end. If they ever use 5 should be like super enemies, but not as chars for players (basically the only 5 should be Thanos).


4 need to be special, so the rate they award them is not that bad. The real problem is the speed of creation of new 4s. They are being released to fast, but D3 has a problem, because now 4 seem the only way of making us play. D3 needs to present new events more often, like a new event every two weeks, so they can present a new 4 every month, not every two weeks.

First of all, please don't confuse my observations with advocacy. I don't particularly want 5*s myself, but I do think they are probably a necessary step for demiurge in the relatively near term.

You say 4*s need to be special, and they are still somewhat special for most 3* players. But the super whales now have 14+ maxed 4*s on their rosters. That doesn't seem very special to me. What will keep them grinding hard in this game if there are no 5*s? Do you feel as enthusiastic about your 35th 3* as you did about your 5th? I can only see 2 ways to keep whales playing: better 4*s (i.e. power creep) or a new tier of play (i.e. 5*s). And of the 2 options, 5*s seem less destructive to the meta (especially if they also make the 3* transition easier).
.

That's pretty spot on.
Playing other free to play games there are very few 100% sustainable methods but whales are only whaling to stay ahead. Making the 4 star process easier will have to leave some sort of gap between whales and non whales.
If the difficultly of 5's becomes extreme. while 4's go closer to how 3's are and 3's get closer to how 2's are (which they should have been when their massive number).

They need something to make the money the people spent feel valid.

The issue is a lot of people are using this game as a collective-nut itch. Like wow there are covers, so I MUST have them, and think 5 stars must be gotten quickly.
A guy who dumped 5K on this game doesn't want someone who grinded up a few pvps to have as many covers.

DCUDCU

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Malcrof wrote:

I have yet to hit 1k in anything but shield sim, came close, only to get beat down before i could re-shield, sometimes even after.. and i like to think i have a fairly solid roster.

See above. Especially in this upcoming Thor event. It's not a game problem, it's user error if you don't get there with your roster.

With the right combination of 3*, 1K is definitely possible. 2K in SIM is also possible(to hit, get reward, then who cares if you get knocked down to 1600). 166 3* = IF, Cage, Thor, Cyclops, Doctor Doom, CMags, Scarlet Witch(needs a reconfig). Yes they are good 3*. No that wasn't an accident. Mo Storm was the 3* I had full covers on first..she could be the last one I moved to 166.

I play PVP in chunks. I also think people do poorly with 3* roster management as they are so exicted to have some covers for 3* they keep levelling up characters just to do so. I moved all to 120 at first. Now I have usualy around 100K iso just cause, and when I get enough to max a new 3* character (~90K) and a need then I strategically do so.

Covers are WAY more important than ISO.

pizzaburger

the 2 star transition wasn't bad.

The 3 star transition for me (before DDQ) almost made me quit. Now I'm getting somewhere, but playing over a year and STILL 3* transitioning? (shakes head)

The 4 star transition? Dreading it. I've had 7 4-stars drop in a cover pack for my entire playing duration (over a year).

I've got 3 Wolverine X-forces, 2 IW, 1 carnage, 1 devil dinosaur. End of list.

As it stands now, a 4* transition AINT gonna happen.

Polares

D3 has a big problem. If they keep creating new 3 the number will grow too much and players doing the 2-3 transition will need a lot of time to max their 3. And if they keep creating 4 at the actual pace then the problem is for players in the 3-4 transition (whales will allways buy new covers, so no matter what, the result is always the same for them).

D3 need to move from covers being the only motivation to play this game to other incentives. THEY NEED TO CREATE MORE CONTENT FASTER, I really think this is the only way of saving this game.