Had my first wipe with community scaling turned off...

DFiPL

and I ain't even mad. Yes, I had to replay it. Yes, it was a challenge even then. No, I didn't look at the node and say "welp guess I'm done because that's more than I can handle."

And that's been the biggest thing for me with community scaling in the past. Seeing a node I'd otherwise have to bash my head against doesn't make me say "well I guess I'll go play PVP instead." It's made me say "well I guess I'll go play another game entirely instead." Being in a place where I stop playing because I'm ready to stop, and not because it's clear that the game isn't going to let me progress any further because of the actions of others in an ostensibly non-competitive mode is refreshing.

I like this brave new CS-less world. I want to stay here.

Unknown

I'm sitting out Prodigal, nothing I want in the progression or for awards, so I'm interested in hearing more about how this change works out for people. Logically it would seem that, along with 10 health packs, it will require a LOT more grinding at the end of each sub in order to place well.

Linkster79

So far only 1 clear each refresh and 2 just before the sub's ended and I am in 70th place. Only 1 TPW in the entire event. Keep in mind I only have 1 of the 3 essentials or I would be top 50 easy.

DFiPL

shade_tree wrote:

I'm sitting out Prodigal, nothing I want in the progression or for awards, so I'm interested in hearing more about how this change works out for people. Logically it would seem that, along with 10 health packs, it will require a LOT more grinding at the end of each sub in order to place well.

Depends on your definition of "place well." I mean, there's an upper bounds on your ability to grind, right? You can grind a node down to 1, but there's only so much blood you can squeeze from that turnip. You've *always* been able to do that, it's just that some nodes, because of community scaling, that's been trickier. What's changed now is that the hardest nodes aren't (and I'm using my own numbers here) spawning at 230 instead of 150. So where before you might have been able to complete it once and then ha ha ha no, you actually have the opportunity to clear it. Maybe multiple times. But how many points is that going to give you? If it's a 400 point node, maybe you get, what, 1500 out of it before it's ground down to 1?

That matters if you're competing against someone who ALSO has all the essentials, but let's be realistic about that: the essentials never scaled the way the community nodes did. Maybe that was because there were fewer people who could play them, or maybe it only ever applied to nodes that in theory everybody could play. Someone who had all three essentials was always going to have a leg up on finishing well, even with grinding. The 10 health packs is going to benefit people with access to all three essentials way more than turning off community scaling would. With or without community scaling, any extra grinding you have to do to place "well" (for whatever your definition of "well" entails) was always going to be necessary.

Turning off community scaling just doesn't have *that* great an impact on placement. People who were going to grind nodes down to 1 before are still going to do that. That hasn't changed. They might be able to grind down the last two nodes in a sub now where maybe they couldn't previously, but diminishing returns apply. They'll potentially get an extra 1200 or so out of each of those nodes, but they'll only get it once. The easier nodes they've been grinding down to 1 all along. What'll change there? Nothing.

Born2DieNPvP

I echo everything DFiPL says. I also feared it might ramp into a uber grind fest but that's not the case. I haven't been playing even remotely optimal and am in 21st and will likely finish in the 30-50th range if i continue at my current pace. Which is a-ok with me because that "feels right" in relation to the time I'm spending playing. The biggest difference is that non-monster scaling combined with 10 health packs allows me to play tactically and not want to murder my phone after a wipe. I've been able to experiment with different teams without stressing over failing and having to wait 2 hours to try again when I see potential if I use a different approach. I hope they keep it this way. I'm actually having fun again.

stowaway

shade_tree wrote:

I'm sitting out Prodigal, nothing I want in the progression or for awards, so I'm interested in hearing more about how this change works out for people. Logically it would seem that, along with 10 health packs, it will require a LOT more grinding at the end of each sub in order to place well.

I just did my first clear of the third sub. That's out of seven, so obviously it's too early to make big pronouncements. But I haven't found it any grindier than your typical low priority (i.e., not a new character) PvE. That's with two top ten finishes so far. With the easier nodes and the additional health packs, the one and only difference is that I'm not using boosts.

Unknown

shade_tree wrote:

I'm sitting out Prodigal, nothing I want in the progression or for awards, so I'm interested in hearing more about how this change works out for people. Logically it would seem that, along with 10 health packs, it will require a LOT more grinding at the end of each sub in order to place well.

Just adding to the chorus...

So far I'm comfortably running this PvE pretty much the way I wanted to, with minimal effort.

Aiming for final progression (Mags ) and T151-200 (want the HP, but not the Beast). Currently maintaining at around 160 with uneven refreshes and a bit of end-of-sub grinding (3-4 nodes, down to <100 per, 3 matches?) and about to cross 10000 overall, which means my progression should be pretty much in the bag, barring anything crazy happening in the next 3-4 days.

I'm able to comfortably hit every "main" node sans one, a first for me, and my essential (the one I can play) is quite manageable. There are two side nodes (Punisher) that show as "normal" that I've yet to best, although the first of the two went from "normal" to "easy" after my first wipe, dropping 10-20 levels (can't remember exactly) in the process.

All in all, pretty good, but that's from a player with zero interest in anything North of T151...

DBC

Unknown

DFiPL wrote:

and I ain't even mad. Yes, I had to replay it. Yes, it was a challenge even then. No, I didn't look at the node and say "welp guess I'm done because that's more than I can handle."

And that's been the biggest thing for me with community scaling in the past. Seeing a node I'd otherwise have to bash my head against doesn't make me say "well I guess I'll go play PVP instead." It's made me say "well I guess I'll go play another game entirely instead." Being in a place where I stop playing because I'm ready to stop, and not because it's clear that the game isn't going to let me progress any further because of the actions of others in an ostensibly non-competitive mode is refreshing.

I like this brave new CS-less world. I want to stay here.

REST IN PIECES COMMUNITY SCALING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WE WONT MISS U

Various38

To echo the sentiments of those before me, I don't really miss the fact that I can try and use my full roster without real threat. I know I may wipe with some combinations, but that's the only way I can try and see who and what works. I should be playing right now, but I don't feel a great pressure to. The other thing I love about this is that I find myself actually wanting the bullseye covers. I haven't actually wanted a cover for a two star in ages, but I do need the Beast covers also. I just don't like to see my heroes without full covers so I max everyone as soon as I can do it evenly. On a side note, ten health packs rule all and if they were intended to help people use more of their roster, then I think they have succeeded.

TLCstormz

Wilson, thigh......

If we do TOO WELL on this PvE, which has complete **** as our reward, won't that make our brackets AND nodes even higher for the next PvE, and beyond?

Or, has that type of scaling been done away with, as well?

Unknown

TLCstormz wrote:

Wilson, thigh......

If we do TOO WELL on this PvE, which has complete **** as our reward, won't that make our brackets AND nodes even higher for the next PvE, and beyond?

Or, has that type of scaling been done away with, as well?

allegedly, they've only removed community scaling, meaning personal(really big) and roster/level(almost nonexistant) scaling are still there

jffdougan

I'll pipe up as having wiped on at least one Punisher node in the Manhattan sub, and have wiped (OK... I technically retreated before it was a total wipe, but it was going to be a wipe) against one of the Thor nodes in the Shield Base LA sub - I think against Thor/Cap/goon and not against Thor/Hawkeye/goon.

I think community scaling can be considered a goner without affecting the outcome significantly.

Turbosmooth

I would agree that it is more manageable with CS turned off. I do have a problem trying to clear the last node more than once at least without boosts.
I spent more Boosts than ever last event for Carnage so I'm trying to use them less during this event.

Now my focus can be how do I want to build Luke Cage. All his colors are so good. 5/5/3, 4/4/5, 5/3/5, 5/4/4?

jffdougan

Turbosmooth wrote:

I would agree that it is more manageable with CS turned off. I do have a problem trying to clear the last node more than once at least without boosts.
I spent more Boosts than ever last event for Carnage so I'm trying to use them less during this event.

Now my focus can be how do I want to build Luke Cage. All his colors are so good. 5/5/3, 4/4/5, 5/3/5, 5/4/4?

What stage of the game are you in and who do you usually pair him with?

jackstar0

Glad it is gone, Do not miss it.

Not even trying too hard and don't have a Carnage. But enjoying things much more.

Dauthi

Born2DieNPvP wrote:

I echo everything DFiPL says. I also feared it might ramp into a uber grind fest but that's not the case.

It will be, testing this on older character prize driven PVEs is pretty silly. These have always been easy and had a lot less grinding since a lot less people bother to play them.

If they ever turn it off on a PVE that has a new character as a prize, prepare to have to grind down a lot more, which is crazy because you already have to grind a ton even with CS turned on.

Dragon_Nexus

I had in my head the community scaling being switched off would be like that time last year when scaling went weird and the hardest fights you'd find was a group of level 55s.

I was surprised, and somewhat glad, to find I was wrong. That event was grind tastic, you needed to get everything down to 1 to do well.
I like tis current setup. There are easy, medium and hard fights which are, I assumed, scaled only to my own history and roster. So at the end of the current sub event is a level 220 Thor 3*, nasty...but my characters are boosted to level 240 or 260. So given a bit of luck and skill I can do it.

I don't reach the end and go "Welp, level 310 Juggernaut. Not even going to attempt that. And it's not even the last node in the chain."

DFiPL

Dauthi wrote:

If they ever turn it off on a PVE that has a new character as a prize, prepare to have to grind down a lot more, which is crazy because you already have to grind a ton even with CS turned on.

And, as I said before, there's kind of a limit on how much grinding you can realistically do since there's only so much blood you can squeeze from the stone. You might be able to reach grinding it down to 1 on a node you previously might have only been able to beat once, but it's not like the nodes we couldn't beat before are worth infinity points now so you'll have to play it 24/7 until the sub ends.

Deadsider

I'll echo the positivity too, it's just more fun now. I could clear before with multiple wipes on 395 nodes but it just made me hate life and walk away when I clear once or run dry on health packs. But the 10 pack change and now CS? I'm falling in love again. I can play around with my teams and really play to the nodes and it's because I'm having fun again. Which you know is the point of a game, to have fun.

If you ask me playing to please the top ten players is catering to the wrong people. Accessibility goes a long way, and making it a little more fun to grind away a node by not having to use your best and only your best on a lucky board is the way to go. Satisfying.

And while I'm at it, the 10 packs plus more points in PvP is fantastic too. I got the 1k cover in the blade event without stressing over shield hopping and lucky grinding. I did get sniped down in the home stretch in spiderman but I'm happy with that because I got to 950 without hopping but also because I kept getting dragged away in RL and had unshielded moments on the climb with each pause. If not for the distractions I'd have hit 1k for my first Fisk, shielded up for the night and been done. Top 200 in the end is fine by me.

If they hold course on this direction they will have a winner here. Makes the hell of the last couple months fade away and into a better age.

Unknown

DFiPL wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

If they ever turn it off on a PVE that has a new character as a prize, prepare to have to grind down a lot more, which is crazy because you already have to grind a ton even with CS turned on.

And, as I said before, there's kind of a limit on how much grinding you can realistically do since there's only so much blood you can squeeze from the stone. You might be able to reach grinding it down to 1 on a node you previously might have only been able to beat once, but it's not like the nodes we couldn't beat before are worth infinity points now so you'll have to play it 24/7 until the sub ends.

I think the point is although the average player is gonna enjoy this, if there was a hypothetical "1st place gets 1,000hp + 9 4* covers" prize for PVE, you'd have to 100% grind it out to get it.

Previously, sure, you had to grind, but nodes just got too impossible.

Of course, who knows - haven't seen anyone reporting if top scorers are max/min-ing.

DFiPL

raisinbman wrote:

DFiPL wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

If they ever turn it off on a PVE that has a new character as a prize, prepare to have to grind down a lot more, which is crazy because you already have to grind a ton even with CS turned on.

And, as I said before, there's kind of a limit on how much grinding you can realistically do since there's only so much blood you can squeeze from the stone. You might be able to reach grinding it down to 1 on a node you previously might have only been able to beat once, but it's not like the nodes we couldn't beat before are worth infinity points now so you'll have to play it 24/7 until the sub ends.

I think the point is although the average player is gonna enjoy this, if there was a hypothetical "1st place gets 1,000hp + 9 4* covers" prize for PVE, you'd have to 100% grind it out to get it.

Previously, sure, you had to grind, but nodes just got too impossible.

Of course, who knows - haven't seen anyone reporting if top scorers are max/min-ing.

Maybe. But that was always true before. You were going to have to play the refreshes "optimally" time-wise have all three essentials available to you, and not waste time failing, since that would extend by the tiniest bit the amount of time you had to wait on a particular node to refresh.

Finishing first overall has never been for the faint-of-heart, grind-wise.

And there's STILL only so much blood the grinders can squeeze from the stone. What's much, much more important than "oh noes now that people can actually PLAY the event they might score more points" is "do my competition have all three essentials so they can grind THOSE down at the end?"

Always has been. Always will be. There's just more points in those and the scaling on them is always easier than what you'll find in the most valuable plebe nodes, with or without community scaling.

Folks afraid that turning off community scaling will make it harder for them to be the one person out of 5000 who walks away with the goodies are missing the point. 95% of the community was never in competition with them in the first place, and the 5% who were in competition were always going to matter exactly to the extent they could squeeze points from the essentials...which were never affected as much by community scaling because 100-X% of the community could even access them to begin with.