Tracking scaling in Prodigal Sun - My Personal Experience

Ebolamonkey84

Since community scaling is turned off for this event, I decided to track my enemy levels before fighting them in order to determine how much my personal scaling factors in. I'd be curious to see everyone else's observations as well.

If the enemy levels were not all the same in a node, I just recorded the highest level.
All trivial nodes stayed the same throughout. Either they did not scale or I started at the cap.
The harder nodes ended up 16-53 levels higher than they started.
The essentials ended up 27-49 levels higher than they started, and they all ended up pretty close to each other.

For trivial nodes, I used 166 Blade, 166 Daken, and 153 Iron Fist.
For harder nodes, I used 227 XForce, 240 Loki, and either 260 CMags or 275 Gthor.
I paired Bullseye with 166 LCap and 166 Kamala Kahn.
I paired Carnage with two teams: 166 Daken and 166 Patch, or 120 Doc Ock and 120 Scarlet Witch.
Cmags got XForce and Loki again.

Ludaa

I haven't been writing them down, but noticed about the same increases. Nodes that started over 200 for me would end up 20-30 lvls higher by subs end. The lower non-essentials were all super easy, while essentials felt fair (150-170).

Unknown

Thanks for taking the time and effort to put this together and post it.

For me, the most noticeable changes have been my ability to complete all my "main?" nodes, something I'd not been able to consider prior, and an immediate drop in scaling for the Punisher node I wiped out spectacularly on.

I inserted the with "main" because I'm not sure if the Punisher nodes are considered side or main nodes, but my Punishers were both "Normal" to begin with. I tried the first, thinking I might get lucky, and I didn't.

Going back immediately after the death-fest, I noticed the node marked "Easy," and the levels had dropped 10-15? Wish I had noted the exact numbers, but I know the classification changed and the levels were definitely lower.

One clarifier on the level drop. I do remember that I was using three boosted (>120) characters, which might have tripped some kind of, "OK, he really can't beat this as it stands" personal scaling mechanism?

Edit before posting: Noticed the new comment about essentials. The one I could participate in was also relatively painless, although I'm not sure how I'd do with it during a grind-down.

DBC

Unknown

Ahem:

NO SCALING IS AWESOME WHOOOOO
NO SCALING IS AWESOME WHOOOOO:D
NO SCALING IS AWESOME WHOOOOO
NO SCALING IS AWESOME WHOOOOO
NO SCALING IS AWESOME WHOOOOO:D
NO SCALING IS AWESOME WHOOOOO
NO SCALING IS AWESOME WHOOOOO:D
NO SCALING IS AWESOME WHOOOOO

simonsez

My Crossfire started at lv259, which was good, and ended at lv320, which was not so good. But at least it's in line with the increase Ebola was seeing. Based the scaling of Ebola and other alliance-mates, it looks like one's GT level was driving the initial values. This is a huge improvement over basing it off mystery parameters from previous PvEs, but still not optimal. I think I used GT in one battle out of 60-70 in sub1, so basing all my scaling off her doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. But at least this is a big step in the right direction.

Bowgentle

Yeah my scaling is in line with OP.
XF, GT, Fury and a metric ton of 3*s maxed.

Challenging, but not pants-on-head crazy, and NO INCREASE WHEN I'M NOT PLAYING.

I could get used to that.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

My Crossfire started at lv259, which was good, and ended at lv320, which was not so good. But at least it's in line with the increase Ebola was seeing. Based the scaling of Ebola and other alliance-mates, it looks like one's GT level was driving the initial values. This is a huge improvement over basing it off mystery parameters from previous PvEs, but still not optimal. I think I used GT in one battle out of 60-70 in sub1, so basing all my scaling off her doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. But at least this is a big step in the right direction.

If I could trouble you...

How did your victory in the lv259 node play out? What I mean is:

Were you using boosted characters?
Any other boosts/T-Us?
How much damage (% of total health) did your team take?
Did any of them not survive?

I'm just curious about what possible things could +- scaling on an individual level, aside from merely winning or losing a fight...

DBC

Unknown

Since community scaling only amplified the scaling problem, getting rid of community scaling alone does not get rid of the problem. It just makes it less bad. You also lose the opportunity to catch up in the case where scaling is off the scale (beyond 395) though that's a rare occurence except in a few notable events.

I still don't see why D3's obsessed with making a level-neutral system. Levels are not meant to be fair. Having a higher level is like someone being physically stronger than you in sports. You might be able to make it up with something else, but usually you will not. You certainly aren't going to make compete against a professinoa-grade guy if you're just a normal guy in terms of physical ability and nobody cried that's unfair. If they want to have a level neutral system, it'd make more sense to get rid of levels than having an effect that tries to undo the advantages of levels.

simonsez

Drummerboycroy wrote:

If I could trouble you...

How did your victory in the lv259 node play out? What I mean is:

Were you using boosted characters?
Any other boosts/T-Us?
How much damage (% of total health) did your team take?
Did any of them not survive?

I'm just curious about what possible things could +- scaling on an individual level, aside from merely winning or losing a fight...

DBC

Don't remember it to that level of detail, but I can tell you I was using PX/SW/GSBW, and boosted 2 purple. The goon match damage usually meant that my GSBW would leave these fights with 2k-3k damage by the time things got rolling.

Ebolamonkey84

Here is what I got from sub 2:


Since I started right at the beginning for this sub, I was able to get 1-2 more hits in on some of the harder nodes. First thing I noticed is that starting levels stayed the same for all of the non-essentials. The level gains for the hard non-essentials were also the same, although I was able to get the first two to a higher level due to more play. They all ended up over fifty levels higher than their starting point.

The Magneto essential is odd, since I was able to crush the all goon team with no damage all times I played it. If damage taken is supposed to be a factor, it should have gone up more.

Zen808

Ebolamonkey84 wrote:

The Magneto essential is odd, since I was able to crush the all goon team with no damage all times I played it. If damage taken is supposed to be a factor, it should have gone up more.

In a logical world, all-Goon nodes and the level-capped nodes at the beginning would have a reduced impact on scaling, just because by design, it's hard to NOT annihilate these nodes. The sky-rocketting levels of all-Goon nodes then becomes completely a factor of Community Scaling (I know that I personally would hit those nodes very hard as a 2* player, just because they were so trivially easy).

Whether you want to believe that MPQ is a logical world, or else, that the lack of level increases is just a happy coincidence... That's just a matter of whatever belief lets you sleep better at night.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

I still don't see why D3's obsessed with making a level-neutral system. Levels are not meant to be fair. Having a higher level is like someone being physically stronger than you in sports. You might be able to make it up with something else, but usually you will not. You certainly aren't going to make compete against a professinoa-grade guy if you're just a normal guy in terms of physical ability and nobody cried that's unfair. If they want to have a level neutral system, it'd make more sense to get rid of levels than having an effect that tries to undo the advantages of levels.

I agree - I've always disliked scaling in games. It devalues progress.

NERD TANGENT AHEAD: The Dungeon Master in me refuses to play the scaling game. If I design a powerful villain, I create his or her skills and powers based on how that character would fare against the world as a whole, as opposed to adjusting their abilities to fit the party's current level. If Tal'canin the Evoker is a bad-a mofo (and he is), then he gets to be 18th level. If the 7th level party wants to mess with him (and they did) they will likely not fare well (and they didn't). You know what that does? It motivates them to lick their wounds, bury the dead, build up their skills, and set a long term goal of getting revenge. It makes them feel like the world exists outside of their experience. When things are scaled to them, they never feel fear, they never play the long game, and they sometimes even grasp the futility of bothering to level up at all because they will always face the same relative level of challenge coming at them.

In this game I love Deadpool Daily, I love the gauntlet, because they feel like a set of challenges locked in, and my roster and skill are the only things that dictate limits. They reward me for my longevity in the game.

Unknown

Thanks for the data. I'll add in my observations:
1) The trivial nodes have maximum level set. They will not scale up, and for all of us with decent roster levels, they will be Lv.34/43/55.
2) The scaling levels are always the same pattern and tied to the point value multiplier of the node. Doesn't matter if it is all goons or not.
Point value multipliers are like this:
Easy node 1: 100% (Lv 34)
Easy node 2: 160% (Lv 43)
Easy node 3: 220% (Lv 55)
Hard node 1: 280% (My Lvs are 127 > 138 > 150 > 162 > 176)
Hard node 2: 310% (My Lvs are 136 > 147 > 159 > 171 > 185)
Hard node 3: 370% (My Lvs are 157 > 168 > 181 > 194 > 209)
Enemy levels are somewhat proportional to the multiplier, but it's not a straightforward formula so I don't have it figured out yet.

Played 4 subs so far, all the hard node levels fall on the exact same numbers when scaling up. The initial level in a sub is not necessarily the first number... it could be the second number, and occasionally the scaling fluctuates back and forth. The numbers did not change when I leveled up my highest level character, so either the level used in calculations is locked in since event start, or the additional levels don't matter until you pass a certain threshold.

lymang

I can't offer up nice evidence based comments, but I'll say it feels much better for me. I have Daken 3* maxed and Sentry almost maxed and then a raft of 3* between 114-140, but I've been using the boosted characters for the most part since they're all at 200 or better. 10 health packs and the boosted characters have let me complete every node so far in the PS event. That's definitely new to me. I couldn't complete the gauntlet, not even close, and with prodigal sun I'm placing pretty well (for me, mind you) and getting at least an event cover at the end of each "round" or "sub-event" or whatever you want to call it. I already completed the progression rewards which is also new for me, to get through the progression rewards with plenty of time to go in the overall event.

I can't say if everything is the new scaling, but it feels like that has helped me do a lot better and feel more rewarded for my work.

Ebolamonkey84

Here are subs 3 and 4:





So the two hardest nodes started one step ahead of my initial levels. In sub 4, I must have really pissed off the game, as I was finally able to break the 300 mark. I managed to pull into 2nd, so hopefully it doesn't carry over into the next sub.

Unknown

Looking at the numbers progression, it actually looks like everyone's data fall on the same progression line. Let me know if this is the case:
Hard node 1 (280% pts): 127 > 138 > 150 > 162 > 176 > 191 > 207 > 225 > 244 > 264 > 287?> 311?> 337?> 366?> 395
Hard node 2 (310% pts): 136 > 147 > 159 > 171 > 185 > 200 > 215 > 233 > 251 > 271?> 292 > 316?> 341?> 368?> 395
Hard node 2 (370% pts): 146?> 157 > 168 > 181 > 194 > 209 > 225 > 241 > 259 > 278 > 298 > 320 > 344?> 370?> 395

I tried to calculate the formula but can't really get the line to fit, but I think the general idea is that every node eventually scales to about 395 to 400. My best fit is about 397 / (108.48%, 107.95%, and 107.40%)^N, where N = 14 will generate my initial levels 127, 136, and 146 for Hard node 1, 2, and 3 respectively.