A Guide to AP Stealers and Generators (Updated 2/22/2016)
morph3us
Posts: 859 Critical Contributor
A guide to AP stealers and generators (Updated 2/22/2016)
I posted this a couple of months ago, in response to a question, and since I had a bit of time this morning, I thought I’d update it and stick it in the Tips and Guides section of the forums. This is intended to be useful more to newer players, rather than the vets, since a lot of this becomes obvious as you use the characters. It also should be noted that this really is just my opinion, and as such, your mileage may vary.
I’ve broken this section up into several groups:
0.0 Synopsis
1.0 AP stealers
2.0 AP reduction without steal
3.0 AP generation
4.0 Specific colour AP generation via tile conversion
5.0 AP generation via damage
6.0 AP return
7.0 Charged tiles
8.0 AP generation for the opposing team
The final section is an FAQ section with some general hints and strategies involving AP stealers.
0.0 Synopsis
The table below is for max covers in the AP generating ability, unless specified otherwise. I'm leaving out the characters who generate a small AP refund from using an active ability, because that's not a useful ability for comboing with other characters. Also note, the Tile Conversion ability is either random (less useful), semi-targeted (by colour) or targeted (much more useful).
1.0 AP stealers
This is potentially the most powerful of the group, as these characters generate AP by stealing it from the opposing team. The reason why it's so powerful is because it has the potential for generating substantial AP swings, both in denying your opponent the ability to use powers, and also in fueling your own attacks. Because this category is so powerful, Demiurge appear to have tried to balance this group by limiting the health of characters with this ability, which allows them to be downed more readily.
1.1 Steals from multiple colours
The Hood
Loki
Mystique
Black Widow (Original)
Black Widow (Modern)
Yelena Belova
This is the group with the biggest ability to swing the game. Arguably, the Hood is the best at this, because he steals as a passive, and has a nuke to go with it. Loki also steals as a conditional passive, but can be played around as an opponent, at the expense of tempo, but has uses in also alleviating the effects of bad cascades (plus shakes the board up for very, very little). OBW is also is incredibly strong in this area, but her low health limits her use beyond the 2-3* transition (unless boosted as a featured character). Mystique, despite stealing from multiple colours, is actually quite weak in this area due to the cost of activating her AP stealing ability, plus the fact that it's dependent on a randomly placed countdown tile, which often gets matched away. MBW's steal is reasonable, but really expensive, and Yelena's even more so, so neither really have a lot of use beyond the 1* game.
An additional comment to make is that Mystique/Hood/Loki turned out to be an effective AP denial team in the most recent iteration of the Gauntlet, since Hood’s steal dampened down the enemy’s ability to fire off potentially damaging abilities early, which allowed Mystique to get Shapeshift online. It should also be noted that this is a soft team with low health, and really only has its uses in PvE.
1.2 Steals from a single colour
Kingpin
Nick Fury
Red Hulk
Blade
Doctor Octopus
Psylocke
This is still a useful ability, but can be a little situational. Blade steals from the enemy's strongest colour, whereas Psylocke steals from the enemy's largest colour pool. Blade's AP steal is stronger, based on the fact that the strongest colour is associated with an active ability (usually), so you're usually stealing a colour that matters to your opponent. Psylocke's ability doesn't generate that same sort of swing, because a substantial majority of the time, your enemy will accumulate a large pool of AP in a colour that they can't use. That's great, if you can use that colour, but by and large, you're generally not denying your enemy a useful colour in doing so. Plus, it's associated with a reasonable length countdown tile, that may get matched away. Kingpin's a bit of an oddball, given that he reduces AP in a single colour (strongest, which is useful), and then generates yellow AP, rather than AP of that colour. It does allow you to plan ahead with your team however, in playing a strong yellow user (in addition to Kingpin's own yellow ability). Fury steals up to 9 AP from the enemy's strongest colour, so potentially very useful, but it's tied to a randomly placed countdown tile, so it's hit or miss as to whether it actually goes off or not. Doc Ock can steal up to 2 green AP, all for the low, low cost of 12 green AP (although admittedly, he has a grab bag of effects that go with that), so I wouldn't really regard him as useful in this respect.
Red Hulk deserves a special mention, in and of his own accord. Technically, he reduces the enemy green AP to zero without stealing it, and generates green AP at the same time. I've lumped him in with the AP stealers, because the net effect is to steal green AP. The reason why he deserves special mention is because Gamma Siphon's ability to reduce green AP to zero is not cover contingent. In other words, a single cover in Gamma Siphon will reduce an enemy's green AP to zero. Bringing Red Hulk along, or a Gamma Siphon TU, essentially neutralizes an opponent's ability to use green AP. Five covers in Gamma Siphon is a very dangerous thing to have or to face due to the swing in green AP that it generates.
2.0 AP reduction (without steal)
Iceman (All New X-Men)
Jean Grey (All New X-Men)
She-Hulk
Jean Grey's blue will reduce an enemy team's AP by 3-6 (depending on the covers) in their strongest colour. Combined with the team stun, this is a useful ability in shutting down your opponent, but given that it's contingent upon them making a match 5, it's a little hit or miss as to whether it goes off.
Iceman's purple will reduce an enemy team's red AP by 2-4 depending on covers.
She-Hulk's green reduces AP in two colours now, and at a cost of only 6AP. The fact that it's random makes it variable in use, but it may very well form the basis of a good AP denial team. The low cost of 6AP makes this relatively spammable. This is also a pretty good TU to take along, especially against overscaled Dark Avengers.
3.0 AP generation
Silver Surfer
Cyclops (Classic)
Elektra
Hulk (Totally Awesome)
Iron Man (Hulkbuster)
Miles Morales (Spider-Man)
Mr Fantastic (Reed Richards)
Professor X
Human Torch (Classic)
Iron Man (Model 40)
Scarlet Witch
Squirrel Girl
Storm (Mohawk)
Human Torch (Johnny Storm)
Magneto (Marvel Now)
Storm (Classic)
Storm (Modern)
This category has three components.
3.1 AP generation via tile destruction
The first is pure AP generation based on tile destruction. Storm does this via her green, Magneto (MN) does this via his red. X-Force and The Hood were in this category, pre-rebalancing. Part of the value in this ability set is the AP generation itself, the second is in board shakeup, particularly if the board is starting to run dry of the matches that you need. Personally, I think this ability is undervalued, particularly in the context of survival nodes, where you can use it to end a wave with an active power, and generate more AP in the process. Having said that, I'd pick Hood or Loki for AP stealing over AP generation via tile destruction in most instances - it's a bigger swing, and doesn't require AP to set off. It's still a useful ability to have in your armamentarium, though.
Scarlet Witch's Hex Bolt also generates a small amount of AP via tile destruction. You get to choose one tile, but the other 3-4 tiles around it that get destroyed are randomly chosen, however, but it's also functional as spot removal for special tiles.
Silver Surfer's black destroys tiles around the black hole countdown tile for a number of turns, and looks very effective in theory in terms of selective AP generation and focused board shake.
4* Cyclops' blue ability generates red AP via targeted tile destruction, and also looks very effective in theory, in terms of selective AP generation, and focused board shake (with a dash of special tile removal to boot).
Totally Awesome Hulk generates up to 4 green AP via random tile destruction.
3.2 AP generation via tile destruction (net loss)
The following characters generate a small amount of AP via tile destruction, but with a substantial net loss, so it effectively defrays the cost of the ability to a small extent. Squirrel Girl generates AP via tile destruction, but it's a pretty small amount of AP, all told. HT also generates a small amount of AP via collateral tile destruction. Elektra's traps generate a single black if they're destroyed via ability activation. Squirrel Girl’s AP generation can sometimes be meaningful, sometimes not; I’d consider it an ancillary bonus rather than an ability to plan a team around, given the randomness in tile selection. I’d regard HT and Elektra’s AP generation as a small partial refund in the initial cost of firing off the ability, rather than true AP generation. I'll also mention Moonstone here, as Gravity Warp, if there is no valid Special tile, will generate AP from the destroyed tile.
3.3 AP generation via specific abilities
Since IM40's balance pass, he's become one of the strongest 3* AP generating support characters. Prior to the balance pass, his yellow Recharge ability was best at 1-2 covers. It's now mandatory at 5 covers, where for 6 yellow AP, it generates 12 red AP, 12 blue AP, 9 green AP, and 3 purple AP (after resolution of all 3 2 turn CDs). He therefore makes an excellent partner for anyone requiring red/blue/green (eg - 4Thor, Iceman, 3* Cap - the list goes on, and on). In addition, he's the only 3* support character with a reasonable health total, plus his red now packs a punch (even if it is slightly overcosted).
Professor X generates AP in your team's strongest colour as a passive on Match 5s. This can snowball into a matchwinning sequence, if you plan around it (an example would be Prof X, 4*Thor, where the match 5 deals significant damage, generates blue AP, which then feeds blue AP for Power Surge, which potentially leads to a boosted Smite).
Mr Fantastic generates 1 green AP with his yellow passive for each Fantastic Four member on the team (at present, this includes The Thing, Invisible Woman, 3* and 2* Torch, and Bag-Man). This passive only procs upon an enemy match of a special tile. Insofar as AP generation goes, this seems like a pretty limited way to accelerate green. Given that it requires enemy matching of special tiles, Torch is only FF member in game at present who generates a substantial number of special tiles, so from a theorycrafting perspective, it may be useful in that combination only. I'd be inclined to think that Thing and IW don't generate sufficient protect tiles for this to be a reliable green accelerator.
Iron Man (Hulkbuster) generates up to 9 red AP in exchange for self damage (via his black ability). This is probably most useful in fueling his own red ability. Self damage isn't as bad as it seems - generally the red that you generate from Overdrive will fuel a Repulsor Punch that is sufficient to down an enemy, and in downing an enemy, probably prevents more ability damage than the self-damage from Overdrive.
Cyclops (Classic) generates AP in your strongest colour while the CD tile is active, upon TU matches.
Miles Morales generates AP by matching web tiles. 1-3 covers generates 1 purple AP per web tile matches, 4 covers generates purple and red, 5 covers generates purple, red, and blue.
4.0 Specific colour AP generation via tile colour conversion
Jean Grey (Phoenix) - generates red
Iceman (All New X-Men) - generates blue
Iron Man (Hulkbuster) - generates red
Black Widow (Grey Suit) - generates green
Cyclops - generates red
Daken (Classic) - generates green
Dr Doom - generates black
Iron Fist - generates black
Kamala Khan - generates green
Mystique - generates purple and black
Ragnarok - generates blue
Scarlet Witch - generates purple
Thor - generates green (Thunder Strike) and yellow (Mjolnir's Might)
Captain Marvel - generates TU AP
Daken (Dark Avengers) - generates green
Magneto (Marvel Now) - generates blue and red
Thor - generates green (Thunder Strike) and yellow (Mjolnir's Might)
Venom - generates green (random, over one basic tile, therefore included as a technicality only)
Pretty self explanatory. Can be game ending in the right colour (particularly in the example of Cyclops, IF, and Thor). The idea is to accelerate into a high cost or game ending ability. Sometimes there's internal synergy with another of that character's abilities, sometimes you need to set it up with another character. Even though Daken's technically in this group, he doesn't generate much green via Chemical reaction, so it's less an accelerant, and more a setup for further strike tiles.
Some of the above characters will allow you target specific tiles for conversion (GSBW, Magneto (MN)), allowing you to set up match 4s and 5s, which you can use to your advantage (ie – Prof X, Hawkeye (Modern)). Some of the above characters will target specific colour tiles, which can also be leveraged into match 4s and 5s, if you set up the board correctly (Kamala Khan, Cyclops, Doom).
I'll also just mention Steve Roger's Sentinel of Liberty here, for completeness' sake, as it technically converts a basic tile to yellow, but for a substantial, substantial AP loss, unless used as a team up (in which case, it's so inefficient anyway that you really wouldn't use it in real life).
5.0 AP generation when damaged
Hulk
Captain Marvel
Hulk converts tiles to green when damaged via Anger countdown tiles. 3* Cap Marvel directly generates red +/- black when damaged (depending on her number of covers; 5 covers in yellow generates red and black, anything less only red). Ostensibly, this is to fuel their own abilities. Realistically, these abilities are better used to fuel other character’s abilities, since there are better green outlets than Hulk’s, and better red/black outlets than 3* Cap Marvel’s in the game. The Anger tile conversion also forms an integral part of Hulkbombing (Patch/Hulk – Berserker Rage so that the enemy strike tiles proc Anger, which procs an AE at 5 covers, plus fuels more green for BR or TC).
The second use for AP generators via damage is in matches where damage per round is inevitable. The principal example of this would be in matches against Iron Fist (particularly overscaled IF in PvE events), where you can use Hulk or 3* Cap Marvel to quickly ramp up AP to an ability from IF's attack tile.
6.0 AP return
Captain America
Captain America
Generates AP in the same colour that you just used, with a net loss of 1 AP. Also useful as a team up, to "convert" TU AP into coloured AP. Technically, Daredevil's blue sort of does this too, but the amount that is returned from a Billy Club CD match is small.
7.0 Charged tiles
Silver Surfer
Hulk (Totally Awesome)
Thor (Goddess of Thunder)
Ragnarok
Generates charged tiles, which generate triple AP on being matched. Two edged sword, since your opponent can match them too. Rags' charged tile generation doesn't really count, he doesn't generate enough tiles to make a match all that likely. 4* Thor's charged tile generation is notable because her red ability jackpots damage depending on the number of charged tiles on the board. Silver Surfer's charged tile generation is notable because of the synergy with his Singularity ability. Unfortunately, there's not a great deal of synergy between 4* Thor and Silver Surfer, since they both generate charged tiles from blue and red, so 4* Thor is still waiting for a good charged tile partner. Totally Awesome Hulk generates charged tiles via his blue ability, so unfortunately he doesn't synergise well with 4* Thor either, although he does self accelerate reasonably well.
8.0 AP generation for the opposing team
Black Panther
Ares
This final group generates AP for the opposing team, as a drawback for a relatively discounted AP cost of their ability. Black Panther's Rage of the Panther generates 5AP in the enemy's team's strongest colour. Strongest color is the color that has highest damage rating during scoring. If there are more than one color of the same power damage, the enemy will gain 5 AP for that one as well. Ares generates 1 green AP for the enemy team for every 2 green AP consumed in his Onslaught ability. Use these abilities with caution, either if you know that the enemy can't use the AP that you generate for them, or if activating that ability will down the enemy character who can use that AP.
FAQ
This is a hodge podge of general strategy tips involving the above characters.
Hood or Loki? Loki or Hood?
A topic that comes up reasonably frequently is: which is the better support character, Loki or the Hood?
Hood’s advantages are that:
- he generally steals every turn, sometimes from multiple colours
- he has a fairly powerful, albeit expensive nuke
- Intimidate has great synergy with characters that generate CD tiles (Cap America, Starlord, Squirrel Girl etc)
Hood’s disadvantages are that:
- his health is terrible. At 5100 health (maxed at 166), he’s in one shot territory for a number of characters
Loki’s advantages are that:
- in addition to his AP steal ability, he forces your opponent to play differently, which generally slows down their AP collection
- you can leave match fours in colours you don’t need for the AI
- he’s the only character in the game who can steal TU AP
- he has a super cheap board shuffle (which is vastly underrated by a lot of players)
- he’s an excellent counter to enemy strike/protect tile generators
- his health isn’t as terrible as the Hood’s (5950 maxed)
Loki’s disadvantages are that:
- sometimes he doesn’t steal any AP at all
- 5950 health is still terrible
- if he’s the last man standing, you’d better hope that your enemy has some protect tiles out that you can flip, since he doesn’t have any offensive abilities to speak of
To be honest, I don’t think one is better than the other. It’s a question of who’s better suited for the situation you’re facing. If you’re facing a strike/protect tile generator, bring Loki. If you’re bringing a CD tile generator on your team, bring the Hood. If you’re bringing Nick Fury along, bring the Hood. It also depends on the ability colours you need to cover. Bringing along 4*Thor? Bring Loki. Bringing along XFW? Bring the Hood. In some senses, the Hood is easier to use, since you can just ignore him, and he’ll still steal AP for you, whereas you need think about setting up match fours for the AI with Loki. Loki, on the other hand, is very good insurance against adverse cascades.
Do I max out my Hood/Loki?
There are two schools of thought about this.
If you’re playing mostly PvE, it’s probably better not to max them out, and keep them at a level where they’re not tanking their colours, since they’re going to survive much longer through node clears.
If you’re playing mostly PvP, then they can use all the health they can get, so max them out.
If you want to keep Hood or Loki underlevelled, assuming your tank is at 166, and you want their secondary colour to tank for Hood/Loki's primary colour, keep Hood/Loki at or below level 141.
Are Hood/Loki still viable in PvP?
The Hood and Loki both got passed by in the recent health increases, which has hurt their viability in PvP to an extent. My feeling is that their viability depends somewhat on the environment in which you’re playing them.
If you’re playing high level PvP, Hood and Loki are a lot less viable than they used to be. Their low health is a liability, and they’re likely to be taken out quickly. The deterrent value of the XFW-Hood team has passed, unfortunately. They remain viable on offense, but are a liability on defence.
If you’re a transitioner, or playing in the lower score range of PvP (below 600ish), then Hood and Loki become a lot more playable. 2* teams generally don’t have many good options for dealing with either character, in terms of cheap burst damage or counter AP steal.
If Hood or Loki are boosted for the week in PvP, their viability improves significantly. Loki at level 240 has 8531, and Hood slightly less, but the health bump prolongs the time required to down them, and therefore increases the probability that the AP steal will be sufficient to power a damaging ability on defence.
The new exception which does tend to make Hood and Loki more viable in PvP are the newer "tank" characters. These include The Thing, Colossus, and Luke Cage. The Thing is probably most effective at protecting Hood, and effectively can act as a 17K bonus health bar for Hood. Thing's yellow is particularly valuable, given that it's a passive, and given the massive disparity between Hood's health and Thing's, it takes a lot of match damage to drop Thing's health below Hood so that Rock Solid doesn't activate. Colossus is somewhat less useful, given that his tanking ability is an active, and it's likely that Hood will be downed before the AI has a chance to activate his Colossus's yellow active (also, there's too much overlap in active colours in that team for my liking). Cage probably has some role to play in making Hood more viable in PvP, given that with Cage's protect tile on the board, match damage alone is less likely to down Hood. Another potential combination might be Kamala Khan, but you'd need a partner with cheaper AP abilities to proc Kamala's heal to make that viable.
How do I deal with an enemy Hood?
This is a common source of frustration for transitioners. When you’re in 2* land, dealing with OBW can be an issue, but it’s possible to deny purple and keep her shut down. Hood’s a different proposition entirely. Your options are:
(1) Bring your own Hood. This requires that you have a Hood with 5 blue covers, and the two will negate each other. It does make for a bit of a snooze fest, but it’s a surefire way of dealing with the issue.
(2) Burst damage him down. This method requires that you target him first, and take him down quickly before the AP steal really starts to hurt you. You can either bring a fast attack character, or load up on match damage boosts in this instance. A fast attack character is someone who either outputs damage for very little AP (ie - Gamora, Deadpool, Psylocke), someone who generates strike tiles for very little AP or passively (Blade, Daken), or someone who generates attack tiles for very little to no AP (Iron Fist). Most of these answers are 3* options. The 2* options are little less reliable, but 2* Daken may work; OBW is a good option, as Espionage procs additional damage, and you can try and steal some AP back along the way. Ares is a possibility too.
(3) Try and play around him. I don’t recommend this method. Dormammu’s Aid (at max covers) steals AP in a colour if there are more than 9 tiles of that colour on the board. You can try and restrict the number of tiles of a particular colour on the board to prevent the steal, which works to an extent. It’s difficult to keep track of all the colours on the board, however, and he usually ends up stealing some AP.
What if Hood’s overscaled?
Then you’re probably in trouble. If he’s with yellow goon feeders, pray for luck (I’m looking at you, Meet Rocket and Groot). Your best option is probably to try and stunlock him into submission so he’s not stealing your AP, and hammering you with Twin Pistols every other turn (yay, Spider-Man!).
How do I deal with an enemy Loki?
Loki’s a bit easier to deal with, as you can play around him to an extent. Avoid the match fours and fives as much as possible, and break them up with match threes when you can. This is still going to affect your gameplay tempo. Again, bringing someone who can burst damage him down is a good idea. Occasionally, you’re going to be faced with the choice of having to take a match 4/5 (the L shaped ones, most commonly) or ceding them to the AI. The choice of which to take will depend on how close you are to downing Loki, and whether ceding that match to the AI is going to hurt you or not.
Pay attention to the number of covers the enemy Loki has. Mischief doesn’t hurt all that much at 3 or fewer covers, since you’ll probably have enough turns to match away some of the CD tiles.
How do I deal with 3* Deadpool/Hood/Loki?
I’m mentioning this one as a special case, since it turned up on the last Gauntlet, and some people were struggling with it. The issue here, of course, is that you have two high priority targets in the Hood and Loki, but you also have Deadpool blocking the way. If you try and burst down the Hood and Loki, Deadpool’s likely to jump in the way. If you try and deal with Deadpool first, the AP steal is likely to hurt you significantly. The trick with a matchup like this is to try and rely on passives to win you the match. Blade/Daken/Falcon is a good example of a counter to this. You have both Blade and Daken producing strike tiles, and Falcon passively buffing them. A lack of AP is less of a problem in this context. An Iron Fist combo is a good solution. Prof X with IF and/or Scarlet Witch are also a good solution.
How do I deal with Thing/4* Deadpool/Hood?
This one's a bit of a tough nut to crack. The problem with hitting this combo is that Thing will jump in front of virtually every ability activation, and Deadpool's black passive will punish you at the same time (especially if you try and work around Thing with an AE attack), so downing Hood quickly is very difficult, which gives Hood time to build up AP for Thing and XDP to hurt you. I'd say that the most reliable way to beat this team is to bring a stunner along (ideally a cheap stunner, so Hood's AP steal doesn't hurt you too much), or bring a stun TU. Stun Thing, down Hood (ideally one shot him, and take a single hit from XDP's black), then down Thing, then XDP. Be aware, this is likely to be a slow match, since you can't nuke anyone until fairly late in the match.
If AP stealing is as big of a match swing as you say, why shouldn’t I bring Hood or Loki along to every match?
There was a stage in my transition where I was Patch/Loki-ing every single node. AP stealing is a good insurance policy to ensure your opponent doesn’t get their abilities off.
The reason why you’re probably not to going to bring an AP stealer along to every match is that sometimes you’ll have a better answer to the node. This particularly becomes evident when you get more 3* roster depth.
As an example, a good 3* team to take into the Big Enchilada is Rocket & Groot/3* Cap America/Hood. By the time you hit the fourth wave with this team, you’ll have so much AP stored up that you can shield toss/intimidate as an alpha strike to finish the match off without taking any damage. In general, the Hood is a good character to take into survival nodes, because of the time you have to steal AP. However, if you’re dealing with survival nodes in Enemy of the State, where you’re facing Kishu, with Caltrop trap tiles, you might find that 3* Storm is a better option for AP generation than the Hood, as her Hailstorm ability will allow you to blanket the board with attack tiles, and overwrite all of those Caltrops, whilst still allowing you decent AP generation to keep your attacks going over those waves.
One thing to mention though, is that bringing an AP stealer along to an overscaled PvE node is a good solution. Denying your opponent AP is a good way to prevent an overscaled Headbutt/Onslaught/etc from one shotting your team to defeat.
Credit: There were useful corrections from Taloncarde, Infrared, Overclocked, Daibar, and Snagglepuss all incorporated into this post. Happy to incorporate amendments and corrections as posted.
I posted this a couple of months ago, in response to a question, and since I had a bit of time this morning, I thought I’d update it and stick it in the Tips and Guides section of the forums. This is intended to be useful more to newer players, rather than the vets, since a lot of this becomes obvious as you use the characters. It also should be noted that this really is just my opinion, and as such, your mileage may vary.
I’ve broken this section up into several groups:
0.0 Synopsis
1.0 AP stealers
2.0 AP reduction without steal
3.0 AP generation
4.0 Specific colour AP generation via tile conversion
5.0 AP generation via damage
6.0 AP return
7.0 Charged tiles
8.0 AP generation for the opposing team
The final section is an FAQ section with some general hints and strategies involving AP stealers.
0.0 Synopsis
The table below is for max covers in the AP generating ability, unless specified otherwise. I'm leaving out the characters who generate a small AP refund from using an active ability, because that's not a useful ability for comboing with other characters. Also note, the Tile Conversion ability is either random (less useful), semi-targeted (by colour) or targeted (much more useful).
1.0 AP stealers
This is potentially the most powerful of the group, as these characters generate AP by stealing it from the opposing team. The reason why it's so powerful is because it has the potential for generating substantial AP swings, both in denying your opponent the ability to use powers, and also in fueling your own attacks. Because this category is so powerful, Demiurge appear to have tried to balance this group by limiting the health of characters with this ability, which allows them to be downed more readily.
1.1 Steals from multiple colours
The Hood
Loki
Mystique
Black Widow (Original)
Black Widow (Modern)
Yelena Belova
This is the group with the biggest ability to swing the game. Arguably, the Hood is the best at this, because he steals as a passive, and has a nuke to go with it. Loki also steals as a conditional passive, but can be played around as an opponent, at the expense of tempo, but has uses in also alleviating the effects of bad cascades (plus shakes the board up for very, very little). OBW is also is incredibly strong in this area, but her low health limits her use beyond the 2-3* transition (unless boosted as a featured character). Mystique, despite stealing from multiple colours, is actually quite weak in this area due to the cost of activating her AP stealing ability, plus the fact that it's dependent on a randomly placed countdown tile, which often gets matched away. MBW's steal is reasonable, but really expensive, and Yelena's even more so, so neither really have a lot of use beyond the 1* game.
An additional comment to make is that Mystique/Hood/Loki turned out to be an effective AP denial team in the most recent iteration of the Gauntlet, since Hood’s steal dampened down the enemy’s ability to fire off potentially damaging abilities early, which allowed Mystique to get Shapeshift online. It should also be noted that this is a soft team with low health, and really only has its uses in PvE.
1.2 Steals from a single colour
Kingpin
Nick Fury
Red Hulk
Blade
Doctor Octopus
Psylocke
This is still a useful ability, but can be a little situational. Blade steals from the enemy's strongest colour, whereas Psylocke steals from the enemy's largest colour pool. Blade's AP steal is stronger, based on the fact that the strongest colour is associated with an active ability (usually), so you're usually stealing a colour that matters to your opponent. Psylocke's ability doesn't generate that same sort of swing, because a substantial majority of the time, your enemy will accumulate a large pool of AP in a colour that they can't use. That's great, if you can use that colour, but by and large, you're generally not denying your enemy a useful colour in doing so. Plus, it's associated with a reasonable length countdown tile, that may get matched away. Kingpin's a bit of an oddball, given that he reduces AP in a single colour (strongest, which is useful), and then generates yellow AP, rather than AP of that colour. It does allow you to plan ahead with your team however, in playing a strong yellow user (in addition to Kingpin's own yellow ability). Fury steals up to 9 AP from the enemy's strongest colour, so potentially very useful, but it's tied to a randomly placed countdown tile, so it's hit or miss as to whether it actually goes off or not. Doc Ock can steal up to 2 green AP, all for the low, low cost of 12 green AP (although admittedly, he has a grab bag of effects that go with that), so I wouldn't really regard him as useful in this respect.
Red Hulk deserves a special mention, in and of his own accord. Technically, he reduces the enemy green AP to zero without stealing it, and generates green AP at the same time. I've lumped him in with the AP stealers, because the net effect is to steal green AP. The reason why he deserves special mention is because Gamma Siphon's ability to reduce green AP to zero is not cover contingent. In other words, a single cover in Gamma Siphon will reduce an enemy's green AP to zero. Bringing Red Hulk along, or a Gamma Siphon TU, essentially neutralizes an opponent's ability to use green AP. Five covers in Gamma Siphon is a very dangerous thing to have or to face due to the swing in green AP that it generates.
2.0 AP reduction (without steal)
Iceman (All New X-Men)
Jean Grey (All New X-Men)
She-Hulk
Jean Grey's blue will reduce an enemy team's AP by 3-6 (depending on the covers) in their strongest colour. Combined with the team stun, this is a useful ability in shutting down your opponent, but given that it's contingent upon them making a match 5, it's a little hit or miss as to whether it goes off.
Iceman's purple will reduce an enemy team's red AP by 2-4 depending on covers.
She-Hulk's green reduces AP in two colours now, and at a cost of only 6AP. The fact that it's random makes it variable in use, but it may very well form the basis of a good AP denial team. The low cost of 6AP makes this relatively spammable. This is also a pretty good TU to take along, especially against overscaled Dark Avengers.
3.0 AP generation
Silver Surfer
Cyclops (Classic)
Elektra
Hulk (Totally Awesome)
Iron Man (Hulkbuster)
Miles Morales (Spider-Man)
Mr Fantastic (Reed Richards)
Professor X
Human Torch (Classic)
Iron Man (Model 40)
Scarlet Witch
Squirrel Girl
Storm (Mohawk)
Human Torch (Johnny Storm)
Magneto (Marvel Now)
Storm (Classic)
Storm (Modern)
This category has three components.
3.1 AP generation via tile destruction
The first is pure AP generation based on tile destruction. Storm does this via her green, Magneto (MN) does this via his red. X-Force and The Hood were in this category, pre-rebalancing. Part of the value in this ability set is the AP generation itself, the second is in board shakeup, particularly if the board is starting to run dry of the matches that you need. Personally, I think this ability is undervalued, particularly in the context of survival nodes, where you can use it to end a wave with an active power, and generate more AP in the process. Having said that, I'd pick Hood or Loki for AP stealing over AP generation via tile destruction in most instances - it's a bigger swing, and doesn't require AP to set off. It's still a useful ability to have in your armamentarium, though.
Scarlet Witch's Hex Bolt also generates a small amount of AP via tile destruction. You get to choose one tile, but the other 3-4 tiles around it that get destroyed are randomly chosen, however, but it's also functional as spot removal for special tiles.
Silver Surfer's black destroys tiles around the black hole countdown tile for a number of turns, and looks very effective in theory in terms of selective AP generation and focused board shake.
4* Cyclops' blue ability generates red AP via targeted tile destruction, and also looks very effective in theory, in terms of selective AP generation, and focused board shake (with a dash of special tile removal to boot).
Totally Awesome Hulk generates up to 4 green AP via random tile destruction.
3.2 AP generation via tile destruction (net loss)
The following characters generate a small amount of AP via tile destruction, but with a substantial net loss, so it effectively defrays the cost of the ability to a small extent. Squirrel Girl generates AP via tile destruction, but it's a pretty small amount of AP, all told. HT also generates a small amount of AP via collateral tile destruction. Elektra's traps generate a single black if they're destroyed via ability activation. Squirrel Girl’s AP generation can sometimes be meaningful, sometimes not; I’d consider it an ancillary bonus rather than an ability to plan a team around, given the randomness in tile selection. I’d regard HT and Elektra’s AP generation as a small partial refund in the initial cost of firing off the ability, rather than true AP generation. I'll also mention Moonstone here, as Gravity Warp, if there is no valid Special tile, will generate AP from the destroyed tile.
3.3 AP generation via specific abilities
Since IM40's balance pass, he's become one of the strongest 3* AP generating support characters. Prior to the balance pass, his yellow Recharge ability was best at 1-2 covers. It's now mandatory at 5 covers, where for 6 yellow AP, it generates 12 red AP, 12 blue AP, 9 green AP, and 3 purple AP (after resolution of all 3 2 turn CDs). He therefore makes an excellent partner for anyone requiring red/blue/green (eg - 4Thor, Iceman, 3* Cap - the list goes on, and on). In addition, he's the only 3* support character with a reasonable health total, plus his red now packs a punch (even if it is slightly overcosted).
Professor X generates AP in your team's strongest colour as a passive on Match 5s. This can snowball into a matchwinning sequence, if you plan around it (an example would be Prof X, 4*Thor, where the match 5 deals significant damage, generates blue AP, which then feeds blue AP for Power Surge, which potentially leads to a boosted Smite).
Mr Fantastic generates 1 green AP with his yellow passive for each Fantastic Four member on the team (at present, this includes The Thing, Invisible Woman, 3* and 2* Torch, and Bag-Man). This passive only procs upon an enemy match of a special tile. Insofar as AP generation goes, this seems like a pretty limited way to accelerate green. Given that it requires enemy matching of special tiles, Torch is only FF member in game at present who generates a substantial number of special tiles, so from a theorycrafting perspective, it may be useful in that combination only. I'd be inclined to think that Thing and IW don't generate sufficient protect tiles for this to be a reliable green accelerator.
Iron Man (Hulkbuster) generates up to 9 red AP in exchange for self damage (via his black ability). This is probably most useful in fueling his own red ability. Self damage isn't as bad as it seems - generally the red that you generate from Overdrive will fuel a Repulsor Punch that is sufficient to down an enemy, and in downing an enemy, probably prevents more ability damage than the self-damage from Overdrive.
Cyclops (Classic) generates AP in your strongest colour while the CD tile is active, upon TU matches.
Miles Morales generates AP by matching web tiles. 1-3 covers generates 1 purple AP per web tile matches, 4 covers generates purple and red, 5 covers generates purple, red, and blue.
4.0 Specific colour AP generation via tile colour conversion
Jean Grey (Phoenix) - generates red
Iceman (All New X-Men) - generates blue
Iron Man (Hulkbuster) - generates red
Black Widow (Grey Suit) - generates green
Cyclops - generates red
Daken (Classic) - generates green
Dr Doom - generates black
Iron Fist - generates black
Kamala Khan - generates green
Mystique - generates purple and black
Ragnarok - generates blue
Scarlet Witch - generates purple
Thor - generates green (Thunder Strike) and yellow (Mjolnir's Might)
Captain Marvel - generates TU AP
Daken (Dark Avengers) - generates green
Magneto (Marvel Now) - generates blue and red
Thor - generates green (Thunder Strike) and yellow (Mjolnir's Might)
Venom - generates green (random, over one basic tile, therefore included as a technicality only)
Pretty self explanatory. Can be game ending in the right colour (particularly in the example of Cyclops, IF, and Thor). The idea is to accelerate into a high cost or game ending ability. Sometimes there's internal synergy with another of that character's abilities, sometimes you need to set it up with another character. Even though Daken's technically in this group, he doesn't generate much green via Chemical reaction, so it's less an accelerant, and more a setup for further strike tiles.
Some of the above characters will allow you target specific tiles for conversion (GSBW, Magneto (MN)), allowing you to set up match 4s and 5s, which you can use to your advantage (ie – Prof X, Hawkeye (Modern)). Some of the above characters will target specific colour tiles, which can also be leveraged into match 4s and 5s, if you set up the board correctly (Kamala Khan, Cyclops, Doom).
I'll also just mention Steve Roger's Sentinel of Liberty here, for completeness' sake, as it technically converts a basic tile to yellow, but for a substantial, substantial AP loss, unless used as a team up (in which case, it's so inefficient anyway that you really wouldn't use it in real life).
5.0 AP generation when damaged
Hulk
Captain Marvel
Hulk converts tiles to green when damaged via Anger countdown tiles. 3* Cap Marvel directly generates red +/- black when damaged (depending on her number of covers; 5 covers in yellow generates red and black, anything less only red). Ostensibly, this is to fuel their own abilities. Realistically, these abilities are better used to fuel other character’s abilities, since there are better green outlets than Hulk’s, and better red/black outlets than 3* Cap Marvel’s in the game. The Anger tile conversion also forms an integral part of Hulkbombing (Patch/Hulk – Berserker Rage so that the enemy strike tiles proc Anger, which procs an AE at 5 covers, plus fuels more green for BR or TC).
The second use for AP generators via damage is in matches where damage per round is inevitable. The principal example of this would be in matches against Iron Fist (particularly overscaled IF in PvE events), where you can use Hulk or 3* Cap Marvel to quickly ramp up AP to an ability from IF's attack tile.
6.0 AP return
Captain America
Captain America
Generates AP in the same colour that you just used, with a net loss of 1 AP. Also useful as a team up, to "convert" TU AP into coloured AP. Technically, Daredevil's blue sort of does this too, but the amount that is returned from a Billy Club CD match is small.
7.0 Charged tiles
Silver Surfer
Hulk (Totally Awesome)
Thor (Goddess of Thunder)
Ragnarok
Generates charged tiles, which generate triple AP on being matched. Two edged sword, since your opponent can match them too. Rags' charged tile generation doesn't really count, he doesn't generate enough tiles to make a match all that likely. 4* Thor's charged tile generation is notable because her red ability jackpots damage depending on the number of charged tiles on the board. Silver Surfer's charged tile generation is notable because of the synergy with his Singularity ability. Unfortunately, there's not a great deal of synergy between 4* Thor and Silver Surfer, since they both generate charged tiles from blue and red, so 4* Thor is still waiting for a good charged tile partner. Totally Awesome Hulk generates charged tiles via his blue ability, so unfortunately he doesn't synergise well with 4* Thor either, although he does self accelerate reasonably well.
8.0 AP generation for the opposing team
Black Panther
Ares
This final group generates AP for the opposing team, as a drawback for a relatively discounted AP cost of their ability. Black Panther's Rage of the Panther generates 5AP in the enemy's team's strongest colour. Strongest color is the color that has highest damage rating during scoring. If there are more than one color of the same power damage, the enemy will gain 5 AP for that one as well. Ares generates 1 green AP for the enemy team for every 2 green AP consumed in his Onslaught ability. Use these abilities with caution, either if you know that the enemy can't use the AP that you generate for them, or if activating that ability will down the enemy character who can use that AP.
FAQ
This is a hodge podge of general strategy tips involving the above characters.
Hood or Loki? Loki or Hood?
A topic that comes up reasonably frequently is: which is the better support character, Loki or the Hood?
Hood’s advantages are that:
- he generally steals every turn, sometimes from multiple colours
- he has a fairly powerful, albeit expensive nuke
- Intimidate has great synergy with characters that generate CD tiles (Cap America, Starlord, Squirrel Girl etc)
Hood’s disadvantages are that:
- his health is terrible. At 5100 health (maxed at 166), he’s in one shot territory for a number of characters
Loki’s advantages are that:
- in addition to his AP steal ability, he forces your opponent to play differently, which generally slows down their AP collection
- you can leave match fours in colours you don’t need for the AI
- he’s the only character in the game who can steal TU AP
- he has a super cheap board shuffle (which is vastly underrated by a lot of players)
- he’s an excellent counter to enemy strike/protect tile generators
- his health isn’t as terrible as the Hood’s (5950 maxed)
Loki’s disadvantages are that:
- sometimes he doesn’t steal any AP at all
- 5950 health is still terrible
- if he’s the last man standing, you’d better hope that your enemy has some protect tiles out that you can flip, since he doesn’t have any offensive abilities to speak of
To be honest, I don’t think one is better than the other. It’s a question of who’s better suited for the situation you’re facing. If you’re facing a strike/protect tile generator, bring Loki. If you’re bringing a CD tile generator on your team, bring the Hood. If you’re bringing Nick Fury along, bring the Hood. It also depends on the ability colours you need to cover. Bringing along 4*Thor? Bring Loki. Bringing along XFW? Bring the Hood. In some senses, the Hood is easier to use, since you can just ignore him, and he’ll still steal AP for you, whereas you need think about setting up match fours for the AI with Loki. Loki, on the other hand, is very good insurance against adverse cascades.
Do I max out my Hood/Loki?
There are two schools of thought about this.
If you’re playing mostly PvE, it’s probably better not to max them out, and keep them at a level where they’re not tanking their colours, since they’re going to survive much longer through node clears.
If you’re playing mostly PvP, then they can use all the health they can get, so max them out.
If you want to keep Hood or Loki underlevelled, assuming your tank is at 166, and you want their secondary colour to tank for Hood/Loki's primary colour, keep Hood/Loki at or below level 141.
Are Hood/Loki still viable in PvP?
The Hood and Loki both got passed by in the recent health increases, which has hurt their viability in PvP to an extent. My feeling is that their viability depends somewhat on the environment in which you’re playing them.
If you’re playing high level PvP, Hood and Loki are a lot less viable than they used to be. Their low health is a liability, and they’re likely to be taken out quickly. The deterrent value of the XFW-Hood team has passed, unfortunately. They remain viable on offense, but are a liability on defence.
If you’re a transitioner, or playing in the lower score range of PvP (below 600ish), then Hood and Loki become a lot more playable. 2* teams generally don’t have many good options for dealing with either character, in terms of cheap burst damage or counter AP steal.
If Hood or Loki are boosted for the week in PvP, their viability improves significantly. Loki at level 240 has 8531, and Hood slightly less, but the health bump prolongs the time required to down them, and therefore increases the probability that the AP steal will be sufficient to power a damaging ability on defence.
The new exception which does tend to make Hood and Loki more viable in PvP are the newer "tank" characters. These include The Thing, Colossus, and Luke Cage. The Thing is probably most effective at protecting Hood, and effectively can act as a 17K bonus health bar for Hood. Thing's yellow is particularly valuable, given that it's a passive, and given the massive disparity between Hood's health and Thing's, it takes a lot of match damage to drop Thing's health below Hood so that Rock Solid doesn't activate. Colossus is somewhat less useful, given that his tanking ability is an active, and it's likely that Hood will be downed before the AI has a chance to activate his Colossus's yellow active (also, there's too much overlap in active colours in that team for my liking). Cage probably has some role to play in making Hood more viable in PvP, given that with Cage's protect tile on the board, match damage alone is less likely to down Hood. Another potential combination might be Kamala Khan, but you'd need a partner with cheaper AP abilities to proc Kamala's heal to make that viable.
How do I deal with an enemy Hood?
This is a common source of frustration for transitioners. When you’re in 2* land, dealing with OBW can be an issue, but it’s possible to deny purple and keep her shut down. Hood’s a different proposition entirely. Your options are:
(1) Bring your own Hood. This requires that you have a Hood with 5 blue covers, and the two will negate each other. It does make for a bit of a snooze fest, but it’s a surefire way of dealing with the issue.
(2) Burst damage him down. This method requires that you target him first, and take him down quickly before the AP steal really starts to hurt you. You can either bring a fast attack character, or load up on match damage boosts in this instance. A fast attack character is someone who either outputs damage for very little AP (ie - Gamora, Deadpool, Psylocke), someone who generates strike tiles for very little AP or passively (Blade, Daken), or someone who generates attack tiles for very little to no AP (Iron Fist). Most of these answers are 3* options. The 2* options are little less reliable, but 2* Daken may work; OBW is a good option, as Espionage procs additional damage, and you can try and steal some AP back along the way. Ares is a possibility too.
(3) Try and play around him. I don’t recommend this method. Dormammu’s Aid (at max covers) steals AP in a colour if there are more than 9 tiles of that colour on the board. You can try and restrict the number of tiles of a particular colour on the board to prevent the steal, which works to an extent. It’s difficult to keep track of all the colours on the board, however, and he usually ends up stealing some AP.
What if Hood’s overscaled?
Then you’re probably in trouble. If he’s with yellow goon feeders, pray for luck (I’m looking at you, Meet Rocket and Groot). Your best option is probably to try and stunlock him into submission so he’s not stealing your AP, and hammering you with Twin Pistols every other turn (yay, Spider-Man!).
How do I deal with an enemy Loki?
Loki’s a bit easier to deal with, as you can play around him to an extent. Avoid the match fours and fives as much as possible, and break them up with match threes when you can. This is still going to affect your gameplay tempo. Again, bringing someone who can burst damage him down is a good idea. Occasionally, you’re going to be faced with the choice of having to take a match 4/5 (the L shaped ones, most commonly) or ceding them to the AI. The choice of which to take will depend on how close you are to downing Loki, and whether ceding that match to the AI is going to hurt you or not.
Pay attention to the number of covers the enemy Loki has. Mischief doesn’t hurt all that much at 3 or fewer covers, since you’ll probably have enough turns to match away some of the CD tiles.
How do I deal with 3* Deadpool/Hood/Loki?
I’m mentioning this one as a special case, since it turned up on the last Gauntlet, and some people were struggling with it. The issue here, of course, is that you have two high priority targets in the Hood and Loki, but you also have Deadpool blocking the way. If you try and burst down the Hood and Loki, Deadpool’s likely to jump in the way. If you try and deal with Deadpool first, the AP steal is likely to hurt you significantly. The trick with a matchup like this is to try and rely on passives to win you the match. Blade/Daken/Falcon is a good example of a counter to this. You have both Blade and Daken producing strike tiles, and Falcon passively buffing them. A lack of AP is less of a problem in this context. An Iron Fist combo is a good solution. Prof X with IF and/or Scarlet Witch are also a good solution.
How do I deal with Thing/4* Deadpool/Hood?
This one's a bit of a tough nut to crack. The problem with hitting this combo is that Thing will jump in front of virtually every ability activation, and Deadpool's black passive will punish you at the same time (especially if you try and work around Thing with an AE attack), so downing Hood quickly is very difficult, which gives Hood time to build up AP for Thing and XDP to hurt you. I'd say that the most reliable way to beat this team is to bring a stunner along (ideally a cheap stunner, so Hood's AP steal doesn't hurt you too much), or bring a stun TU. Stun Thing, down Hood (ideally one shot him, and take a single hit from XDP's black), then down Thing, then XDP. Be aware, this is likely to be a slow match, since you can't nuke anyone until fairly late in the match.
If AP stealing is as big of a match swing as you say, why shouldn’t I bring Hood or Loki along to every match?
There was a stage in my transition where I was Patch/Loki-ing every single node. AP stealing is a good insurance policy to ensure your opponent doesn’t get their abilities off.
The reason why you’re probably not to going to bring an AP stealer along to every match is that sometimes you’ll have a better answer to the node. This particularly becomes evident when you get more 3* roster depth.
As an example, a good 3* team to take into the Big Enchilada is Rocket & Groot/3* Cap America/Hood. By the time you hit the fourth wave with this team, you’ll have so much AP stored up that you can shield toss/intimidate as an alpha strike to finish the match off without taking any damage. In general, the Hood is a good character to take into survival nodes, because of the time you have to steal AP. However, if you’re dealing with survival nodes in Enemy of the State, where you’re facing Kishu, with Caltrop trap tiles, you might find that 3* Storm is a better option for AP generation than the Hood, as her Hailstorm ability will allow you to blanket the board with attack tiles, and overwrite all of those Caltrops, whilst still allowing you decent AP generation to keep your attacks going over those waves.
One thing to mention though, is that bringing an AP stealer along to an overscaled PvE node is a good solution. Denying your opponent AP is a good way to prevent an overscaled Headbutt/Onslaught/etc from one shotting your team to defeat.
Credit: There were useful corrections from Taloncarde, Infrared, Overclocked, Daibar, and Snagglepuss all incorporated into this post. Happy to incorporate amendments and corrections as posted.
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Comments
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I rely heavily on ap controllers. thanks for this pretty complete and concise summary. only possible suggestion are:
1) adding rags paltry blue generation
2) scarlet witch
thanks for all the time spent - these things are really helpful, especially fore newer guys like you mentioned.0 -
I knew I'd forgotten somebody, thanks for the feedback!0
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Awesome post, I hope this gets a sticky. So useful!0
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Updated the guide with an FAQ section. Happy to add stuff as common questions come up.0
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You missed Thor also generating yellow in the specific color generation via conversion section.0
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Awesome guide! Nice work!
Should add a section on which characters give AP to the opposing team, like Ares green, BP Black, etc..0 -
Updated today:
- added Mr Fantastic to AP generators
- added Jean Grey to AP reduction without steal
- added some additional commentary about the value of tanks to making Hood more viable in PvP
- added some additional commentary to the FAQ about a Thing/XDP/Hood matchup0 -
Great post! Excellent summary!
Just a minor nitpick, you missed listing Doom alongside Kamala and Cyclops as examples of targeted color conversion that can be set up into match 4s and 5s.0 -
my opinion is that people sell hood short in pvp. I have reached 1K twice within the last 2 weeks running my 136 hood (5/5/2), once boosted and once not. nefarious foes made it with mags/loki/hood (he was boosted there) using no shields and in teenage riot (KK) I made it with KK/BP/hood with 2 hops. in teenage riot I don't think he tanked anything and just hid behind kk and bp and denied the other team from healing with kk. I lost him once to a rotp but still won the match. I did get hit and that team struggled to hover in the 600s but my push before I used a shield was into the 900s. I'm probably relying on him too much recently, but any time I start taking on **** characters, the main thing that will kill you is their abilities and he is the single easiest way to delay them getting their abilities off, even at 136. I'd say he's still very viable in the 'middle' scoring range as well. probably not at the top with full **** teams being run.morph3us wrote:Are Hood/Loki still viable in PvP?
If you’re playing high level PvP, Hood and Loki are a lot less viable than they used to be. Their low health is a liability, and they’re likely to be taken out quickly. The deterrent value of the XFW-Hood team has passed, unfortunately. They remain viable on offense, but are a liability on defence.
If you’re a transitioner, or playing in the lower score range of PvP (below 600ish), then Hood and Loki become a lot more playable.0 -
TxMoose wrote:my opinion is that people sell hood short in pvp.
I'd agree with you. On offense, he can really speed up your time to getting crucial abilities off, and stifle potentially match-losing enemy abilities too.
His health is still a major liability on defense though. Once you cross the 800 point mark, you're likely to find that people will actively target Hood teams, especially 4* teams, as you say. 5100 health just isn't enough. It's a very different case when he's boosted though, as it's much harder to down him from 8K health. Obviously, defensive wins don't really matter, but it's more a case of whether people actively hunt you down or not. In the two examples that you've cited, you've had a boosted Hood, which increases his viability, and KK in the second, which essentially increases his health too.
If we look at the current 4* teams out there:
- IMHB/IF - no issues taking down Hood. Line up IF's attack tile on Hood, and match damage is likely to kill him along with the attack tile, leaving Overdrive/Repulsor punch ready to down your second character
- XDP/Thing or XDP/XFW - XDP is very likely to get a CDfW off, and the damage from matching those tiles will probably down Hood.
- Prof X/GSBW/SW - doesn't need AP to get a Master Plan off, which would down Hood too
- Carnage teams - Symbiote Scythes is cheap enough to get off and drop Hood too.
It's a slightly different matter in 3* land, since most of the abilities (bar IF's) that would down Hood are a little more expensive.
Which is a very long-winded way of saying that I agree with you, Hood's very viable in the run up to 600 odd, but can be a liability particularly above 800. Obviously, the answer to that is to be quick with your shield hops, which is clearly what you're doing.0 -
thing is I only target 1K and once queues show me across the 800 mark, I'm already at ~900 and shielded. and after that its a couple of hops to 1K unless I struggle with queues. and hood was not boosted for teenage riot, but doesn't matter. you are very right - cannot float really above 700 or so with a non-maxed hood, so not viable at the very top, but he can certainly help get you to 1K if used correctly.morph3us wrote:Once you cross the 800 point mark0 -
Updated again today.
- Added Silver Surfer.
- Formatting changes in the category of AP generation, so the paragraphs of text are a little less dense.0 -
Update 9/28/2015
- added Iceman
- slight tweak to number headings, which hopefully might make it a touch easier to search through the paragraphs of text0 -
Update 7/10/15
- Added Cyclops (Classic)
It's interesting how only six months ago, we were at a stage where AP generation in the game was potentially broken (Hood was stronger, SS was devastating, and targeted AP generation via tile conversion was the precursor to...erm... Ragnarok). It seems to me, despite the blowback at the time, the "nerfs" to SS, 2* Mags etc, and the health changes have produced an environment where AP generation forms an important part of accelerating fast attack teams without seeming overpowered.0 -
Venom's Symbiote Snare creates a green Web tile over any random Basic tile, (compared to Spidey's Web titles overwriting existing Basic tiles without changing color,) and the Web tile can give Venom's team green AP if it is created in the right spot. Is it worth putting Venom up in category 4, or is it really minuscule (like Daken) and not worth a mention?
Also, Steve Rogers' Sentinel of Liberty could be used to generate yellow AP with the protect tiles put down, even though it would only be a net yellow gain as a
ability. Not sure if that counts for specific color generation.
On a final note, Moonstone's Gravity Warp, if it can't move a Special tile, will generate the AP of the single tile destroyed.0 -
I said a while ago that while the general consensus was that the health buff and boosted PvP "injured" or "hurt" both Loki & Hood, what's the real 'death knell' for them has been AP generation. So what if Hood takes some of my purple, I only need like 5 to get this IF move off, and cascades are typically large enough that I'll down Hood on the same move that I just fired off my special. Same goes for Loki who needs a countdown - he's often dead by the time his things would trigger.morph3us wrote:Update 7/10/15
- Added Cyclops (Classic)
It's interesting how only six months ago, we were at a stage where AP generation in the game was potentially broken (Hood was stronger, SS was devastating, and targeted AP generation via tile conversion was the precursor to...erm... Ragnarok). It seems to me, despite the blowback at the time, the "nerfs" to SS, 2* Mags etc, and the health changes have produced an environment where AP generation forms an important part of accelerating fast attack teams without seeming overpowered.
AP Generation > AP Theft
I'd actually wager that both Hood and Loki need BUFFS to keep up with the current meta game. Nothing substantial, just give Loki some dmg in his purple some how and take away the end turn and lower the AP a tiny bit on Hood's yellow., but they are both just speed bumps. with SWitch & IF running around (not forgetting Cyclops of IMHB).
- Unreall0 -
Unreallystic wrote:I said a while ago that while the general consensus was that the health buff and boosted PvP "injured" or "hurt" both Loki & Hood, what's the real 'death knell' for them has been AP generation. So what if Hood takes some of my purple, I only need like 5 to get this IF move off, and cascades are typically large enough that I'll down Hood on the same move that I just fired off my special. Same goes for Loki who needs a countdown - he's often dead by the time his things would trigger.
AP Generation > AP Theft
I'd actually wager that both Hood and Loki need BUFFS to keep up with the current meta game. Nothing substantial, just give Loki some dmg in his purple some how and take away the end turn and lower the AP a tiny bit on Hood's yellow., but they are both just speed bumps. with SWitch & IF running around (not forgetting Cyclops of IMHB).
- Unreall
That's an interesting point. I think it's hard to take IF as representative, however, as his purple is incredibly undercosted for what it does (same goes for SW). Pretty much all of the AP generators require substantially more AP in order to accelerate a particular colour, and I think Hood/Loki do slow them to an certain extent. You're right, though, they've become a lot less effective than they were. Previously, the presence of a Hood/Loki would force you to run a different team in order to counter them, but given that an AP generator is pretty much a necessity when shield hopping, there's no real need to switch teams to counter Hood now, which diminishes his effectiveness somewhat.0 -
Sure SWitch & IF perverse things a bit, but be honest, they are who you fight the most (of the batteries) and thus are important in the discussion. Even moving beyond them, in general the AP Batteries pretty much circumvent the AP Theft, the more AP or work it takes to get off the 'AP generation', usually the stronger the reward, often enough AP to instant down pretty much all major AP theft/Drain except for SHulk and Blade. When LThor ruled the earth, part of what made him nasty was his yellow, and someone like Hood or Loki were great for it, it took like what 11 yellows if I remember, something substantial to work up to, so those guys were effective. Now, we've got like ten different people that can instantly get you close to that in one move or a couple cheap moves...its just too much AP made too quickly, that is hard to "prevent", I mean just fighting Cyclops, if you deny red, he gets yellow and black, if you focus on red and black, unless you've got a strong red/black user on your team, you're going to be short changed yourself, while he still gets to stockpile yellow and whatever else his team needs.
As I see it right now, the only AP Stealer I fear...for AP steal (Iceman doesn't count in other words) is She Hulk. Sure her green is random, but its so low cost @ like 6, drains 2 colors for full if I recall correctly, AND she has high health - so she WILL get it off, and while you are lucky sometimes, othertimes...not so much.
- Unreall0 -
Updated with Red Hulk, Totally Awesome Hulk, Miles Morales, Jean Grey (Phoenix).0
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