Plea to Developers -PvP

Unknown

This may get lost in the noise, but I just wanted to voice to the developers how I've been feeling about the game recently. I'm a long-time player. Just got my day 504 reward today. Not super hardcore but probably play at least an hour every day. It's a great game. I've never been this addicted to a mobile game before. It's perfect to pick up on and play on my commute or just while I'm waiting around.

The thing that really grabbed me though, was the sense of progression. I especially felt this in PvP. Originally I just played for the ISO, it was all I could get. But then I built up my team enough to get that 300pt heroic token every time! Then I started playing for the 2* covers, then 3* etc. Every time I hit a new 100pt high score is was a victory. Only recently I started hitting 800pts somewhat consistently and that was a fun accomplishment.

The new system for PvP has taken away that sense of progression. Where before it felt like I put in work an effort to create a team that could get to 800+pts, now I'm getting scores similar to new players because right out of the gate I'm fighting players my level and above. That plus the inflated health change has made PvP a slog. Matches take much longer and are a much bigger risk. It feels like everything I worked for has been reset. And it's simply not as much fun anymore.
I understand trying to make the game feel more fair to newcomers. But I was a newcomer once and it didn't feel unfair. People with 2* teams shouldn't be able to win a 3* every PvP. I had to work like crazy when I had a 2* team to get 3*s because I was up against everyone.

Lastly, I've really appreciated that although this is a free-to-play game it's always felt very fair and available to people who don't want to spend a bunch of money. Spending money makes progression easier but you can also progress on your own. However with this new PvP it seems necessary to spend gold on shields and health packs to get anywhere. It feels much more pay-to-win.

Anyways, I've loved this game for a long time. I really hope that some of the recent changes get rethought. It's still fun collecting new covers, but now it feels like what's the point? It's going to be the same difficult battles no matter how good my team gets now. Please bring back the sense of progression. The better your team, the more points you should be able to get.

esoxnepa

This is very similar to what many of us have been telling them. Without the feeling of progression, the game will die.

That feeling of progression was really only provided by PvP, as PvE constantly scaled up.

I am waiting for the Developer Q&A this month, because before the changes to PvP, I enjoyed playing, now its just a grind/chore. Reaching 1000 for the 4* covers takes putting more time, money, and scheduling than I am willing to commit.

tanis3303

TheButton wrote:

It's still fun collecting new covers, but now it feels like what's the point? It's going to be the same difficult battles no matter how good my team gets now.

^This. 1,000,000,000x this. No two sentences have summed up my frustration with the game's direction as well as these two have. I have a crazy deep roster of multiple 200+ 4*s, 20+ 166 3*s, and I don't really feel like its an accomplishment. Any PvP fight I walk away from, (IF I walk away from it) whoever I took to battle is coming out bloody and bruised, eating health packs like sensu beans when Vegeta shows up. And PvE? Lolz. Even the essential battles are scaled beyond my ability to deal with them, pitting me against lvl 250+ Iron Fist and forcing me to bring tinykitty MOONSTONE.

Basically, any sense of progress or feeling of power gained from having a built up roster is immediately smacked down by the fact that AI opponents now have at the least eleventy billion health per match, ensuring that your team eats multiple special abilities no matter how hard you try to deny AP, and at worst are 100+ levels above your best character, usually ensuring a swift death from multiple special abilities scaled to astronomical heights.

Compounding this is the fact that losing a battle has horrendous consequences for you. In PvP, you're out 3 health packs, you lose event points, your opponents gain event points, and every second you sit un-shielded at a decent score, you are just asking to take multiple hits, losing even MORE event points. A PvE loss isn't quite as debilitating, but I find loses there to be much more frustrating. At least in PvP you are usually fighting characters at or near your levels. Losing to a level 300 Juggernaut just because he got 2 red matches just feels cheap. And again, losing here means you're out 3 of your 5 health packs, while the AI? The AI isn't subject to such a penalty, that lvl 300 Juggernaut is gonna have the same 25,000 health he had the first time you wiped to him.

Sadly, I have no solution to offer. I do however share the OP's frustrations.

Unknown

tanis3303 wrote:

TheButton wrote:

It's still fun collecting new covers, but now it feels like what's the point? It's going to be the same difficult battles no matter how good my team gets now.

^This. 1,000,000,000x this. No two sentences have summed up my frustration with the game's direction as well as these two have. I have a crazy deep roster of multiple 200+ 4*s, 20+ 166 3*s, and I don't really feel like its an accomplishment. Any PvP fight I walk away from, (IF I walk away from it) whoever I took to battle is coming out bloody and bruised, eating health packs like sensu beans when Vegeta shows up. And PvE? Lolz. Even the essential battles are scaled beyond my ability to deal with them, pitting me against lvl 250+ Iron Fist and forcing me to bring tinykitty MOONSTONE.

Basically, any sense of progress or feeling of power gained from having a built up roster is immediately smacked down by the fact that AI opponents now have at the least eleventy billion health per match, ensuring that your team eats multiple special abilities no matter how hard you try to deny AP, and at worst are 100+ levels above your best character, usually ensuring a swift death from multiple special abilities scaled to astronomical heights.

Compounding this is the fact that losing a battle has horrendous consequences for you. In PvP, you're out 3 health packs, you lose event points, your opponents gain event points, and every second you sit un-shielded at a decent score, you are just asking to take multiple hits, losing even MORE event points. A PvE loss isn't quite as debilitating, but I find loses there to be much more frustrating. At least in PvP you are usually fighting characters at or near your levels. Losing to a level 300 Juggernaut just because he got 2 red matches just feels cheap. And again, losing here means you're out 3 of your 5 health packs, while the AI? The AI isn't subject to such a penalty, that lvl 300 Juggernaut is gonna have the same 25,000 health he had the first time you wiped to him.

Sadly, I have no solution to offer. I do however share the OP's frustrations.

^This. 1,000,000,000x this. to both of you! I couldn't have said it better.

W4LAndre

TheButton wrote:

I understand trying to make the game feel more fair to newcomers. But I was a newcomer once and it didn't feel unfair. People with 2* teams shouldn't be able to win a 3* every PvP. I had to work like crazy when I had a 2* team to get 3*s because I was up against everyone.

I hear you loud and clear on this. When I was starting out I did what I could but I didn't expect to place top 100 in every PvP. I accepted that and never felt that it was unfair to me as a primarily 2* player. People with more experience and better rosters would kick the **** out of my level 94 characters, and I was ok with that. I thought, "if I stick with it and do the best I can, eventually I'll be one of the guys who can compete at that next level." Some time probably around day 260-280, I had finally reached that point where I could win those tough fights and pretty much place top 100 in any PvP I wanted.

It has been stated many times, and props to the OP for coming on the forums and speaking your mind, looks like you just joined up yesterday, welcome aboard, the sense of progression was great. It was a lot of fun having something to strive for.

Wonko33

I hear you but I think telling them I could progress for free before and now I have to pay just tells them they are doing the right thing

PeterGibbons316

tanis3303 wrote:

TheButton wrote:

It's still fun collecting new covers, but now it feels like what's the point? It's going to be the same difficult battles no matter how good my team gets now.

^This. 1,000,000,000x this. No two sentences have summed up my frustration with the game's direction as well as these two have. I have a crazy deep roster of multiple 200+ 4*s, 20+ 166 3*s, and I don't really feel like its an accomplishment. Any PvP fight I walk away from, (IF I walk away from it) whoever I took to battle is coming out bloody and bruised, eating health packs like sensu beans when Vegeta shows up. And PvE? Lolz. Even the essential battles are scaled beyond my ability to deal with them, pitting me against lvl 250+ Iron Fist and forcing me to bring tinykitty MOONSTONE.

Basically, any sense of progress or feeling of power gained from having a built up roster is immediately smacked down by the fact that AI opponents now have at the least eleventy billion health per match, ensuring that your team eats multiple special abilities no matter how hard you try to deny AP, and at worst are 100+ levels above your best character, usually ensuring a swift death from multiple special abilities scaled to astronomical heights.

Compounding this is the fact that losing a battle has horrendous consequences for you. In PvP, you're out 3 health packs, you lose event points, your opponents gain event points, and every second you sit un-shielded at a decent score, you are just asking to take multiple hits, losing even MORE event points. A PvE loss isn't quite as debilitating, but I find loses there to be much more frustrating. At least in PvP you are usually fighting characters at or near your levels. Losing to a level 300 Juggernaut just because he got 2 red matches just feels cheap. And again, losing here means you're out 3 of your 5 health packs, while the AI? The AI isn't subject to such a penalty, that lvl 300 Juggernaut is gonna have the same 25,000 health he had the first time you wiped to him.

Sadly, I have no solution to offer. I do however share the OP's frustrations.

I get this, I really do. But understand that they are trying to keep the game interesting for you. As the community progresses, the game needs to evolve. For a while there we were seeing successful PvP rosters with a 270 XFW and 4hor and the rest 2*. The recent changes promote a diverse roster. It's incredibly difficult to develop a game that both rewards progression and time spent playing, while also providing incentive to continue with that progression so the game doesn't get stale. I had a lot of success with winfinite before they nerfed MNMags, but it was incredibly boring. Now I rather enjoy being forced to use new characters to remain competitive. It's now much harder to just bring in your A-team and win every fight without ever losing any health. I rather enjoy approaching a PvE node or early PvP node and saying "OK, what is the worst team I can field and still win this battle?" So that I can save my healthpacks for my better characters when I need them for a particularly challenging fight.

I agree that PvP still needs some tweaking as there is currently very little incentive to progress much into 4* land, but overall I think a lot of the recent changes have helped to improve the longevity of the game.

PeterGibbons316

W4L Andre wrote:

TheButton wrote:

I understand trying to make the game feel more fair to newcomers. But I was a newcomer once and it didn't feel unfair. People with 2* teams shouldn't be able to win a 3* every PvP. I had to work like crazy when I had a 2* team to get 3*s because I was up against everyone.

I hear you loud and clear on this. When I was starting out I did what I could but I didn't expect to place top 100 in every PvP. I accepted that and never felt that it was unfair to me as a primarily 2* player. People with more experience and better rosters would kick the **** out of my level 94 characters, and I was ok with that. I thought, "if I stick with it and do the best I can, eventually I'll be one of the guys who can compete at that next level." Some time probably around day 260-280, I had finally reached that point where I could win those tough fights and pretty much place top 100 in any PvP I wanted.

It has been stated many times, and props to the OP for coming on the forums and speaking your mind, looks like you just joined up yesterday, welcome aboard, the sense of progression was great. It was a lot of fun having something to strive for.

I have always felt that the PvP was poorly implemented, and the new MMR isn't helping at all. I'm really good at matching, finding long cascades, and manipulating the board to my favor. This skill is rewarding in PvE, but not in PvP since the AI playing for me is terrible. When I was trying to transition it was incredibly painful to get to a point where I could still very easily win battles, only to get pummeled on defense - multiple times during one battle. I always felt that was unfair that I could actually lose more points that I gained during a battle. I think that the best players with the best rosters should be able to fight for the best scores, not have to worry about shield hopping and other nonsense to place high. Maybe limit the number of times you can be attacked between your own attacks, or not allow multiple players to attack you at the same time, or something like that.

If you are going to change the MMR to limit the exposure of the weak rosters to the strong ones then you should really just create separate brackets....with separate rewards. Lumping them all together removes the incentive to progress. Why develop 3/4* characters when having them doesn't really make scoring high in PvP any easier?

fmftint

All Ive got to say is, 14 was my 3rd season at the max 3 star level and while my roster has improved, the experience has only gotten worse

TxMoose

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

tanis3303 wrote:

TheButton wrote:

I rather enjoy approaching a PvE node or early PvP node and saying "OK, what is the worst team I can field and still win this battle?" So that I can save my healthpacks for my better characters when I need them for a particularly challenging fight.

could not agree more here - love throwing out teams like punisher squirrel girl or deadpool storm rather than the same old thor/(loki/hood/obw).

slidecage

They need to leave PVP how it stands alone it give new player a chance to get more covers. BUT they need to do something to bring the vets back to the game, maybe make 2 PVP type events.

Used to enjoy playing PVE but dont see whats the reason to play pVE much when the top 5 have all of their people maxed out with ISO and COVERS and you have no chance.

Going to be very interesting to see where im put next season. Took 35th this season *usually take top 700)

i will say this though how they made PVP easier for me they mostly Killed PVE for me

play 2 hours and get 1 to 2 covers up to 100 HP and tons of ISO in PVP
or play for 20+ hours and be lucky to get 2 covers and the same HP and tokens.

looking back on last season *usually jump last 2 hours of event) just rewards not counting progession rewards

1 cover 25hp
1 cover 50hp
1 cover 25hp
1 cover 50 hp
2 covers 50 hp
1 cover 25
1 cover 25
1 cover 25
1 covers 50
1 cover 50

20 hours or less in PVP got me 11 covers 625 HP 10 tokens
20 hours in a PVE will get me 1 to 2 covers 50 to 100 HP 1 token

PVE really needs to change big time

TxMoose

slidecage wrote:

They need to leave PVP how it stands alone it give new player a chance to get more covers. BUT they need to do something to bring the vets back to the game, maybe make 2 PVP type events.

Used to enjoy playing PVE but dont see whats the reason to play pVE much when the top 5 have all of their people maxed out with ISO and COVERS and you have no chance.

Going to be very interesting to see where im put next season. Took 35th this season *usually take top 700)

i will say this though how they made PVP easier for me they mostly Killed PVE for me

play 2 hours and get 1 to 2 covers up to 100 HP and tons of ISO in PVP
or play for 20+ hours and be lucky to get 2 covers and the same HP and tokens.

looking back on last season *usually jump last 2 hours of event) just rewards not counting progession rewards

1 cover 25hp
1 cover 50hp
1 cover 25hp
1 cover 50 hp
2 covers 50 hp
1 cover 25
1 cover 25
1 cover 25
1 covers 50
1 cover 50

20 hours or less in PVP got me 11 covers 625 HP 10 tokens
20 hours in a PVE will get me 1 to 2 covers 50 to 100 HP 1 token

PVE really needs to change big time

question - is that hp net? did you shield? you never lose hp in pve other than roster slots for new characters. I finished similar to you (6500 for season) in pvp rankings, but I've net lost ~5000 hp since ultron for slots and shields (edit: and 1 cover purchase - forgot about that one).

in pve, 20 hrs would get at least 2, probably 3 covers. progression is a given and then it depends on if it gets you t50 or t150. plus every sub you finish t50 you get hp coming back. so actually for a week long event, 20 hrs likely gets you 3 covers, 9 tokens, and ~300hp (all net positive except for slots for new or ones you don't have). this actually goes up for the split weeks with 2 pve events - double covers and a little more hp. I don't think you're painting an accurate picture.

I'm no long-time vet, but I get the impression that pve is intended more for the newer players with lower rosters anyway. if they flood that level with covers, then transitioning would only be a matter of gathering iso, with lots more tough decisions than there already is on who to keep/toss for f2p players. the odd thing is that they force the new releases onto that format, so vets with broken scaling kinda get screwed. now that I'm past the early part of the transition I'd love pve to give more covers, but I can see why they don't.

Unknown

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29982#p361953

Works for both PvE and PvP. But whether or not they'd implement it, I don't know. It's basically the same thing I and many others were asking for when I quit last year.

Most people don't actually want the competition, or the having to work MPQ into your schedule based on its timeframe instead of your own.

Unknown

I do agree with the comments in the OP re the sense of progression. 'Back in the day' when I invested time and money into building my first pair of 166s, I felt a complete sense of achievement when they were fully built. With my new dynamic duo, I manged to get consistent scores and land a t100 alliance. The plan was to continue to build out my roster, get higher pvp scores and eventually get to 4* land.

With the recent raft of changes (weekly buffs, MMR changes, 4* nerfs, etc.), I no longer have a direction or aim to work towards. So, I made the decision to leave my alliance, and play as and when I felt like. I merc if my scores are decent and I want an extra cover. Strangely enough this change in mindset has kept the game fun for me. The weekly buffs have been cool to play around with as I don't really care anymore if I score 800 or 400.

Since I have no real aspirations any more, I have no need to spend any money on the game...I mean why bother focusing on one or two characters at a time when you don't know who's going to be on the buff list, no need to buy covers as they would eventually come around in DDQ, no need to spend HP on shields as I don't care what score I get, and I don't care what score I get cos aren't 4*s just trophies now so why go through the stress trying to 1000 points.

So the changes are good and bad - if anything, the lack of progression has just made me a casual player and the game is light hearted fun now.