Scarlet Witch Reality Crush Stuns then Kills

Xenoberyll

Hi there,

i've noticed Wanda often stuns an opponent that then gets killed by the same spell. In her introduction interview it was stated to be damage first, stun second, so i thought i might mention it here...

Joe Fletcher: wrote:

Indeed you can. Wanda runs Purple/Green/Blue with each of her abilities taking on a different aspect of her chaos magic. Her Purple, Reality Crush, is her heavy hitter that deals damage and stuns opponents facing off against it. This attack deals heavy damage to the entire enemy team then stuns one enemy for a couple of turns. At max level her attack hits harder and stuns longer than MPQ fan favorite Storm (Classic)'s Wind Storm.

Storm @ 150 does more damage than the Witch does at 210 btw, that's not what i had imagined from a harder hitting ability really.

Malcrof

Xenoberyll wrote:

Storm @ 150 does more damage than the Witch does at 210 btw, that's not what i had imagined from a harder hitting ability really.

Scaling on 2*'s is intense. If you watch them scale all the way up to 94, they get a little more damage each level, because it caps faster, it is right where it should be at 150. This is why they cap her at 94, so she doesn't outshine a 3*, so when buffed, it scales as it normally would on a 2*... which is pretty dramatic.

This is why leveling a 2* you see the incremental increase each level, while on 3*'s it is usually every 2 or so levels.

a Buffed SW will murder a buffed Storm for the same reason.

Xenoberyll

Malcrof wrote:

a Buffed SW will murder a buffed Storm for the same reason.

A level 210 SW is buffed...Storm still does more damage at 150. I know 1 and 2 stars scale harder than 3stars do, i was expecting more though - unbuffed. Anyhow...that's a discussion to have elsewhere because the bug issue is the stun thing and the damage thing is just a sidenote/comment on my disappointment.

Malcrof

Xenoberyll wrote:

Malcrof wrote:

a Buffed SW will murder a buffed Storm for the same reason.

A level 210 SW is buffed...Storm still does more damage at 150. I know 1 and 2 stars scale harder than 3stars do, i was expecting more though - unbuffed. Anyhow...that's a discussion to have elsewhere because the bug issue is the stun thing and the damage thing is just a sidenote/comment on my disappointment.

Hah, just noticed you said 210, my bad..

I think quite a bit of that is the fact that she can self generate her purple, so it is intended to be fired more often, like Kamala generating her greens and Thor doing the same.

Xenoberyll

No problemo

Malcrof wrote:

I think quite a bit of that is the fact that she can self generate her purple...

ya, but that's adressed by SW's cost of 14 compared to 11 for Storm imho. anyhow, it would be nice if the damage came before the stun as promoted.

LuciferianX

What you're encountering is the Stacking Order for powers, something I was going to post about elsewhere. In the current stacking order:

1) Damage is applied
2) Effects are applied
3) Damage is resolved
4) Responses are resolved

So, Wanda strikes the team for 2,200, a target is stunned, then damage is resolved. This is fixable (hopefully) by changing the stack to Damage applied, damage resolved, effects applied, responses resolved. This will still keep Hulk/Capt Marvel from triggering their damage loss response abilities, and keep Wanda from Stunning the person with 1,800 health who is now downed. Easiest way around this is, of course, to limit the number of eligible targets. In the current format, 2*Storm's power (not the character as a whole, but that power) is more effective and reliable than Wanda's. Storm hits the lead target for 4 turns of Stun, Wanda hits a random target for 5. *head scratch*

Given the attack is 14 AP, I would like to see the damage upped to ~2,500/2,750 and the Stun applied to a non-downed target (or the target with the most HP, etc. -- anything other than 'random and the effect is wasted').

Xenoberyll

LuciferianX wrote:

Given the attack is 14 AP, I would like to see the damage upped to ~2,500/2,750 and the Stun applied to a non-downed target (or the target with the most HP, etc. -- anything other than 'random and the effect is wasted').

Exactly what i had in mind. The stun is going to waste way too often. Combined with the low damage and the high cost, this is worse than Storm does, not better.

Malcrof

LuciferianX wrote:

What you're encountering is the Stacking Order for powers, something I was going to post about elsewhere. In the current stacking order:

1) Damage is applied
2) Effects are applied
3) Damage is resolved
4) Responses are resolved

So, Wanda strikes the team for 2,200, a target is stunned, then damage is resolved. This is fixable (hopefully) by changing the stack to Damage applied, damage resolved, effects applied, responses resolved. This will still keep Hulk/Capt Marvel from triggering their damage loss response abilities, and keep Wanda from Stunning the person with 1,800 health who is now downed. Easiest way around this is, of course, to limit the number of eligible targets. In the current format, 2*Storm's power (not the character as a whole, but that power) is more effective and reliable than Wanda's. Storm hits the lead target for 4 turns of Stun, Wanda hits a random target for 5. *head scratch*

Given the attack is 14 AP, I would like to see the damage upped to ~2,500/2,750 and the Stun applied to a non-downed target (or the target with the most HP, etc. -- anything other than 'random and the effect is wasted').

The problem with changing the order would be strike tiles. They are treated like a passive effect (which is why OBW can double tap)

turul

Looks like all powers are buggy/works in a dissapointing fashion:

-Green: generates double AP on non-selected tiles
-Purple: stun can be wasted on downed opponent (Dr.Oc has this bug too)
- Blue Passive: tiles selected for conversion sometimes already are purple.
(Also, CD tiles are created +1 turns which are instantly dropped to expected turns, but this is crying to be another bug-source)

LuciferianX

OBWs double-tap doesn't come from the strike tiles; those are part of the normal damage calculation as Step 1: Calculate & Assign damage. Her double-tap comes from her power activating on a trigger, where that Trigger is:

IF eligible tile matched, THEN activate Espionage, and it sits outside of the chain. So in a normal match damage scenario:

1) Tiles are counted and damage calculated (including strike tiles)
2) AP is aggregated
3) Damage is resolved
4) Responses are resolved

When OBW does it, this happens:

1) Tiles are counted and damage calculated
1a) Subroutine: Espionage asks "Was that an eligible match? If yes, Activate Power."
2 - 4) The same as before, except now:

When the match damage is resolved, the Power activates just as though you had selected it from the list.

1) Damage is calculated and assigned (including strike tiles)
2) AP is stolen (if applicable)
3) Damage is resolved
4) Responses are resolved

So for her the stacking order is not problematic. Her power activation on a trigger is not part of the strike tile calculation, which is included in step 1, calculate and assign. If you were to break that down further:

1) Total match damage
2) Apply modifiers (such as Strike Tiles)

And so on from there.