Time For A Change...

Unknown

One last message outlining my particular frustration with the direction MPQ is going in.

I'm frustrated by a lot of things at the moment. I think the nerfs have been handled awfully, the recent communication from the devs and the rumour-mill surrounding changes is pitiful, and Demiurge/D3's approach to game testing and implementation is downright amateur.

However, even despite these faults, the game should still be playable and enjoyable. The fact of the matter is that the game is fast becoming a real grind, and no fun at all.

Now before I get all the abuse of that element of the forum who always reply "Well if it's no fun then quit", just hear me out, because a fair few of you will be at the point I'm at before long.

My main problem is that the devs seem to have no clue how to reward a player and give achievable progression. PvE has been a total grind for a long time now. 8 hour refreshes haven't really helped. The new changes to PvP MMR, health and nerfs have totally wrecked the structure to my mind. I have no issue in making battles longer and more involved, but it is a broken system the means the you have play for hours every day to achieve the progression awards, and now even on the first shield hop, there is a real chance that you can get hit 2 or 3 times before you complete your own battle. Having to pay for shields for every shield hop battle isn't fun. The Ultron event was refreshing for the first day, until it became clear that this event required you to play at least 3 hours a day to get any degree of progression.

At the other end of the scale, we have DDQ, which rewards with a 3* cover a day for 15 minutes play.

So we either have:
PvE: Play 3/4+ hours a day to get anywhere (depending on format)
PvP: Play 4+ hours an event to get anywhere
Ultron/special events: Play 4+ hours per day to get anywhere
DDQ: Play 15 minutes a day to get anywhere

So the devs have based a game on you playing 15 minutes or multiple hours per day to get anywhere. What happened to the middle ground, where you could be a reasonably casual player, and still feel that you could progress?

Now it may be different in the 2* world, but when you are at the 3* level, where are you supposed to go? Surely having a maxed 3* roster should help you, but actually it makes every matchup longer and longer. PvP has no more seed teams, and progressions that require you to win maybe 30+ of those matches to achieve anything meaningful. PvE at high levels with horrible scaling and having to hit each node multiple times ceased to be fun a long time ago.

Really it seems to make more sense to play DDQ, unless you want MPQ to consume your life.

Many people I speak to are starting to feel the same. Burnout is at ridiculous levels. Really, should anyone be suffering burnout from a match 3 game and feel the necessity to play for hours at a time just to compete at a basic level?

I would ask that the Devs take time out, give themselves a decent 3* roster with a few 4* covers and then try to play and move forward with the game, whilst actually maintaining a reasonable work and social life. Then come back a month later and tell me how that worked out for them!

MPQ wasn't always this way, but the Devs really seem to have lost sight of what is fun.

Now if the players here are really content with throwing that much of their life at this game every day, then good luck, but it's becoming more of an unhealthy addiction for me now, rather than the fun and challenge that it used to be.

Unknown

ephyzephy wrote:

MPQ wasn't always this way, but the Devs really seem to have lost sight of what is fun.

I second that. It feels that they want you to commit more and more time to the game. I'm scaling down to DDQ, everything else I'll play casually not chasing any prizes.

optimus2861

ephyzephy wrote:

So the devs have based a game on you playing 15 minutes or multiple hours per day to get anywhere. What happened to the middle ground, where you could be a reasonably casual player, and still feel that you could progress?

Yup. The top PVE progression award, which is a measly one 3* cover, now seems to take perfect play to achieve. Clear every node every 8 hours like clockwork, and possibly grind some down a few extra times. There's no slack built into the score any more. Enemy of the State will mark my 3rd straight PVE where I'll miss out on it, despite having essential characters. It should not take literally days of on-the-mark effort to achieve one cover, when, as you say, 15 minutes in DDQ does the same thing.

And all the PVP progression awards are still based on a structure where you got 3+ seed teams to beat up on for easy points at the start. The seeds are gone. The points are hard. The progression rewards now suck as a result (as I keep saying, SHIELD Sim is an outright disaster under this matchmaking system, and a complete waste of time & effort for anyone above a 1* roster).

tl;dr = progression awards must be fixed to account for all the recent changes.

Punisher5784

I am afraid if we keep comparing all the events to DDQ that it will get 'nerfed.' Remember when everyone compared XForce to every character..

I know the devs have stated that DDQ will continue after the run of the 3rd covers, but do you think they will change it a bit?

TheOncomingStorm

1) You do not have to play every event. Furthermore, you do not have to play every event the same way. There are many alliances like Pyper's Pit that are still very competitive, but have much smaller minimums and are PVE optional to boot. There other alliances that are PVE only. There are a lot of options.

2) There is a difference between having a lot of content available for players that like some types of events more than others and oversaturation. I've gone very lazy some events, I don't skip all the way because there's nice loot for even the laziest players. Guess what, you do not fall behind missing a few covers or not getting points for covers you already have and do not need. Other games have even more content than MPQ, but they limit how much you can play, so your playtime is dictated by the game unless you pay to play more. MPQ gives the player the flexibility for the most part.

3) Take a season off. I have taken several off and then returned to my original alliance. Once I had to wait an extra season to return, but meh. Despite my recent rantings, I am not getting ready for another vacay, just coming back from one. Guess what, I'm not behind at all. That said, there is a difference for change fatigue and playing fatigue. I'm still exhausted from all the changes and new characters, and it will probably take me another couple of weeks (hopefully ppl bear with me somewhat till then). But, if you are tired of the game, get more casual (limit the time you play).

Unknown

TheOncomingStorm wrote:

1) You do not have to play every event. Furthermore, you do not have to play every event the same way. There are many alliances like Pyper's Pit that are still very competitive, but have much smaller minimums and are PVE optional to boot. There other alliances that are PVE only. There are a lot of options.

2) There is a difference between having a lot of content available for players that like some types of events more than others and oversaturation. I've gone very lazy some events, I don't skip all the way because there's nice loot for even the laziest players. Guess what, you do not fall behind missing a few covers or not getting points for covers you already have and do not need. Other games have even more content than MPQ, but they limit how much you can play, so your playtime is dictated by the game unless you pay to play more. MPQ gives the player the flexibility for the most part.

3) Take a season off. I have taken several off and then returned to my original alliance. Once I had to wait an extra season to return, but meh. Despite my recent rantings, I am not getting ready for another vacay, just coming back from one. Guess what, I'm not behind at all. That said, there is a difference for change fatigue and playing fatigue. I'm still exhausted from all the changes and new characters, and it will probably take me another couple of weeks (hopefully ppl bear with me somewhat till then). But, if you are tired of the game, get more casual (limit the time you play).

The alliance is the only enjoyable part at the moment. I'm not saying play all the events and I'm in an alliance that focusses on PvP with no PvP commitment. However, in the new PvP world, if you are at the point where you have 15+ 3*s max covered, then what is the objective? Unless you are after the kitty tokens, then the real rewards don't kick in until 800 points, and the 1000 point cover is what you really want. Until recently, I could play a couple of a couple of hours a day and achieve decent results (with or without pre-Nerf XF). Now, it just isn't possible. Every single meaningful reward is based around hours of grinding. I see nothing here for anything other than hardcore players or whales who can drop $$$.

Unknown

Punisher5784 wrote:

I am afraid if we keep comparing all the events to DDQ that it will get 'nerfed.' Remember when everyone compared XForce to every character..

I know the devs have stated that DDQ will continue after the run of the 3rd covers, but do you think they will change it a bit?

Really though, wouldn't it make sense if DDQ was something other than a free cover per day - something a bit more challenging? Maybe a DDQ in its standard format where you earn ISO and 50/100 HP. Then an enhanced one, more akin to a single PvE clear that you could win a 3* cover and would be more challenging. Instead it's one 3* for doing practically nothing, followed by a 3* cover every few days for signing every moment of spare time.

Punisher5784

ephyzephy wrote:

Punisher5784 wrote:

I am afraid if we keep comparing all the events to DDQ that it will get 'nerfed.' Remember when everyone compared XForce to every character..

I know the devs have stated that DDQ will continue after the run of the 3rd covers, but do you think they will change it a bit?

Really though, wouldn't it make sense if DDQ was something other than a free cover per day - something a bit more challenging? Maybe a DDQ in its standard format where you earn ISO and 50/100 HP. Then an enhanced one, more akin to a single PvE clear that you could win a 3* cover and would be more challenging. Instead it's one 3* for doing practically nothing, followed by a 3* cover every few days for signing every moment of spare time.

I would prefer shorter PVE's, like 2-3 days, the 4-7 day events, especially with 48hr subs such as the current Enemy of State PVE. It gets boring grinding the same nodes over and over again, and it's even worse when the nodes are scaled beyond your control or they are extremely unfair such as Goons feeding Wolverine red so he can Adamantium my face off. I enjoyed the 12hr subs, I know most people didn't, but I only had to complete the node 1-2 times, got 2-4 event tokens per day, end the event with 20 tokens, it was great.

As for DDQ, I would be interested in seeing a "Non-Stop Survival" after Wave 4, it begins to earn you 3* covers, eventually if you reach Wave 10, you earn 4* covers. I agree that at times it's not too challenging, with the exception of Ninjas, but it's supposed to be challenging for the 2* transitioner because it doesn't scale like normal PVE, it's easy for us.

Overall though, they need to restore PVP back to the way it was and stop tweaking it every season. PVE simply needs new stories and different game types, maybe add in specific challenges/achievements/goals (e.g. stun enemy 5 times in a match; survive the cpu's 10000 damage cascade).

Nonce Equitaur 2

The solution is simple.

In order to get their paychecks, the devs need to win every cover they release, must place in the top 100 of every event, and must be part of a 4* cover-winning season team. If they can't place, they don't get paid.

The game would instantaneously change:
1. At least 50% less grindy.
2. Fairer PVP scoring
3. Broader range of prizes.

If the devs were forced to play the game as much as they seem to want people to play the game, the would instantly see how grindy and repetitive the game has become, and the unfun aspects would vanish faster than free snacks around the Hulk.

darkmagearcanis

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

The solution is simple.

In order to get their paychecks, the devs need to win every cover they release, must place in the top 100 of every event, and must be part of a 4* cover-winning season team. If they can't place, they don't get paid.

The game would instantaneously change:
1. At least 50% less grindy.
2. Fairer PVP scoring
3. Broader range of prizes.

If the devs were forced to play the game as much as they seem to want people to play the game, the would instantly see how grindy and repetitive the game has become, and the unfun aspects would vanish faster than free snacks around the Hulk.

I would like to add to this, that they could not be in the same alliance.

Malcrof

darkmagearcanis wrote:

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

The solution is simple.

In order to get their paychecks, the devs need to win every cover they release, must place in the top 100 of every event, and must be part of a 4* cover-winning season team. If they can't place, they don't get paid.

The game would instantaneously change:
1. At least 50% less grindy.
2. Fairer PVP scoring
3. Broader range of prizes.

If the devs were forced to play the game as much as they seem to want people to play the game, the would instantly see how grindy and repetitive the game has become, and the unfun aspects would vanish faster than free snacks around the Hulk.

I would like to add to this, that they could not be in the same alliance.

let them be in an alliance, next PVP would us vs them!

atomzed

ephyzephy wrote:

However, in the new PvP world, if you are at the point where you have 15+ 3*s max covered, then what is the objective? Unless you are after the kitty tokens, then the real rewards don't kick in until 800 points, and the 1000 point cover is what you really want.

I will always aim to get 725 for all pvp, even if I have all covers of the rewards.

Why? Simply because of the HP.

At 725, I will get 100 hp (25+25+50) for the event. If I don't need the covers, I don't need to shield. Sometimes I am lucky and can get top 50 without shielding, that will be additional 50 hp. If not, too 100 is no problem for my roster (=25 hp).

If you are in a good alliance, then you will get at least 25hp from the alliance rewards.

So all in all, you can realistically earn 150 HP per pvp if you don't shield.

Accumulate this 150 HP across the season (assuming 10 pvp per season) and you have sufficient hp for one 3* cover of your choice.

So while you are right that we all play for covers, don't underestimate the HP you earn throughout the pvp and pve. Saving it up will go a long way.

slidecage

What i would like to see when we have 4 stars

Run
Ultron/special events and a PVE at the same time...

ultron (lower his health big time) will run the same number of days as the PVE this would allow people who are shooting for more covers to play just ultron and allow the people who cant not play ultron a chance at getting the 4 star though PVE

round 5 6 and 7 would net you a 3 star cover just like the witch. maybe not even make it a team event or joining the ultron event would lock you out of the PVE event you have to make a choice what you want to go for.

this would give more people a chance at getting 4 stars.

Unknown

You want to be a semi casual player and still progress?

Find a pvp only alliance, play every pvp to the minimums of that alliance or how ever much more you want and be done.
If you have played that pvp and shielded and don't want to break shield, open a pve and play ad little or as much as you want.
I do one clear usually when I have time, earn myself a heroic token usually and a few thousand iso.

Done, casual play.
I score around 700-850 each pvp so that always top 25, get my 2 covers and 1 from my alliance so I'm progressing plus the 2 heroics from that pvp and that gets me 7500 for the season.
I play maybe an hour a day plus ddq.

Everyone here makes it seem you need to play the **** out of pvp but you really don't.

DFiPL

ephyzephy wrote:

Now if the players here are really content with throwing that much of their life at this game every day, then good luck, but it's becoming more of an unhealthy addiction for me now, rather than the fun and challenge that it used to be.

Puzzle Quest has long been an addiction for me, so that's not new.

When I first discovered the game, it was an immediate YES PLEASE reaction and wanting to play it much more than the health pack system would allow. It was frustrating to me because I'd play a few rounds and then oh gotta wait a few hours before I can play any more.

What I would have liked to have seen would have been a mix of solo and "online" gameplay. Like, the PvE events and the PvP structure, sure. I can see those using health packs to keep things on an even footing and to keep players from not getting frozen out of whatever rankings by others with more time to devote to the game.

But I would have loved a single-player mode similar to the original Puzzle Quest, 'cept with Marvel characters, as well. Gimme that, and let me play the **** out of it. No health packs. Sell it as an add-on, if you like. I'd pay good money for that. I'd get the story(-ies) that Demiurge more or less let fall by the wayside after they stopped adding to the prologue, and there'd still be the PvE/P modes as ways to earn additional covers. I think that would have struck a nice balance. PvE/PvP could have been shorter experiences, with people who want to play the **** out of the game having a fleshed-out story mode to do so. Could have still used the token system from PvE/PvP for new character addition/power growth, to keep people invested in the part of the game that makes Demiurge ongoing money. Same with roster slots, I suppose. But ideally in that solo mode, there wouldn't be persistent damage or health packs necessary.

Alas.

Phillipes

If you want to play competetivly, you need to play 6 - 8 hours daily.
I have had many of such days.

And thats why Im against any changes which prolonges matches - playing time si higher.

When PVE sub end, gaming time is atleast 5 hours for that particular day.
And with super hardcore PVP which we have now, 6 hours during that particular PVP.

And Simulator is worts, because it is addon to these hours.

Unknown

Earthcore wrote:

You want to be a semi casual player and still progress?

Find a pvp only alliance, play every pvp to the minimums of that alliance or how ever much more you want and be done.
If you have played that pvp and shielded and don't want to break shield, open a pve and play ad little or as much as you want.
I do one clear usually when I have time, earn myself a heroic token usually and a few thousand iso.

Done, casual play.
I score around 700-850 each pvp so that always top 25, get my 2 covers and 1 from my alliance so I'm progressing plus the 2 heroics from that pvp and that gets me 7500 for the season.
I play maybe an hour a day plus ddq.

Everyone here makes it seem you need to play the tinykitty out of pvp but you really don't.

I'm not sure what level you're at, but I don't find PvP to play like that anymore. Up until the big MMR changes, it wasn't terribly stressful to get to 800 and beyond. Now that all the seed teams have disappeared and you are immediately flung into high level teams, it is a grind. Leave yourself unshielded at 500-600 and you will lose 100 points which never used to happen. I have no issue with the game being challenging, but the Devs only concept to challenging is to make matchups longer and require much longer to grind out the bigger rewards (at 800-1000 points).

Worse than that is the progressing from 800 points onwards requires much more luck and HP to sink into shields. Longer matchups mean shield hopping, even on the first hop, is much more perilous, meaning you can often lose twice the points you gained. There is no fun whatsoever losing points outside of your control.

I'd be interested to know what level roster you have and how long you have to play for to get 800 in the new MMR.

atomzed wrote:

I will always aim to get 725 for all pvp, even if I have all covers of the rewards.

Why? Simply because of the HP.

At 725, I will get 100 hp (25+25+50) for the event. If I don't need the covers, I don't need to shield. Sometimes I am lucky and can get top 50 without shielding, that will be additional 50 hp. If not, too 100 is no problem for my roster (=25 hp).

Have you tried this since the MMR changes, because if you leave yourself unshielded at 600+ then you will get hit hard and often. Not sure if this means that you time every PvP so that you are online playing for the last couple of hours.

Additionally, I'd still raise the point that even if you you are saving 150 HP per PvP, then that is an awful lot of slog to buy one 3* cover per season.

Unknown

ephyzephy wrote:

The new changes to PvP MMR, health and nerfs have totally wrecked the structure to my mind. I have no issue in making battles longer and more involved, but it is a broken system the means the you have play for hours every day to achieve the progression awards, and now even on the first shield hop, there is a real chance that you can get hit 2 or 3 times before you complete your own battle. Having to pay for shields for every shield hop battle isn't fun.

Couldn't have said better myself!

optimus2861

Earthcore wrote:

I score around 700-850 each pvp so that always top 25

I'm sorry, but 700+ points in each PVP is not casual play. As a 2* -> 3* transitioner, a measly 200 points has become a serious climb with this asinine matchmaking.

Phillipes

optimus2861 wrote:

Earthcore wrote:

I score around 700-850 each pvp so that always top 25

I'm sorry, but 700+ points in each PVP is not casual play. As a 2* -> 3* transitioner, a measly 200 points has become a serious climb with this asinine matchmaking.

Absolutely yes, in my post, when I meant 6 hours, I meant precisely what you posted. 6 hours to achieve 800. You are right, that is not casual gaming, that is Hardcore gaming.
+ 1