MPQ creators - do you have a life? No, I'm not a jerk - read

san

Do you have a "real" life?

No, I don't mean that in a pejorative way. I simply ask the question that's on my mind. I don't mean to imply you do nothing outside of MPQ, nor do I believe that you are in any way unsuccessful. I, in fact, admire your position. I ask the question for a very different purpose.

You see, I have a spouse. And a child. And a couple of dogs. I also have nieces and nephews, siblings, and my mom and dad. I have friends, and I like to see them every now and then.

On the other hand, I also like MPQ. A lot. It's a great game. In spite of all my complaints (and the complaints of many others), there are a great deal of things great about this. There is, however, one major problem. Progress means abandoning the "real life" for large periods of time. The most recent event showed this.

Many of us love Hulkbuster - it's a great IM version, and you've done a heck of a job making it awesome in this game. And many of us want to play with it. The problem is, that in order to do so, we need to abandon reality, which some of us just aren't able to do.

Now, we can throw out the elitist argument of "only the best and most dedicated should be getting the best rewards" which I agree with to an extent. But isn't the whole point of a game for everyone to play? Does anyone REALLY like that rich kid who got the latest transformer and then brought it to the playground to show off, but won't let others play? What did we all learn in school? If you can't share it, don't bring it.

Back to the point about real life - I know you have one, the question was rhetorical. You surely identify with the rest of us in many ways. You too have children, spouses, pets and family. You have friends and hobbies that you enjoy. You are wholesome people who wish to spend your days enjoying life. You like videogames, and I'm sure you play them. However, much like us, you likely also want a balance between all of these things, and you don't expect videogames to become your life - do you?

Now, how to fix the issue. I know that this is a foreign concept, but giving away 3x 4* covers really won't hurt you in the long run, and will make a lot of people happy. Some with choose to buy the rest of the covers - hats off to them - and they will bring you more money. For most of us, however, it will mean nothing more than having the character covered at 1/1/1.

What do you say?

TheOncomingStorm

That would explain any 8 hour pve refreshes took so long.

There seems to be a fine line how a game is designed to be played and how players decide how they will play.

For example, some players don't play pve while others don't play pve. Some play casual, some hard core. So who do they design it for? Will that design work for everyone? Why is it so much fun to write questions?

san

TheOncomingStorm wrote:

That would explain any 8 hour pve refreshes took so long.

I hate to tell you this, but 8h is not enough for real life. Complicating the issue, the nodes for ultron took about an hour, when you factor in the goon bots+ultron. Meaning that the time is shortened to 7h in between refreshes. I play with a decent team of 3* characters, so it could take longer if you're not working with and optimal team, further cutting into that time.

This event should ideally have refreshed once daily, and that's it.

Bowgentle

san-mpq wrote:

TheOncomingStorm wrote:

That would explain any 8 hour pve refreshes took so long.

I hate to tell you this, but 8h is not enough for real life. Complicating the issue, the nodes for ultron took about an hour, when you factor in the goon bots+ultron. Meaning that the time is shortened to 7h in between refreshes. I play with a decent team of 3* characters, so it could take longer if you're not working with and optimal team, further cutting into that time.

This event should ideally have refreshed once daily, and that's it.

Then you'd have people asking what they should play now that they have to wait for a refresh.

Kinda like there actually are some people who couldn't wait for seasons to start again because they couldn't stand the 4-day downtime.

Unknown

The most successful F2P games tap into peoples addictions and are more like a Pavlovian experiment than a game, so as long as they can tap into this and there's a line of players prepared to pay and play things will never change.

kickpuncher11

Everyone has different schedules. OP isn't the median. I suggest you get used to it.

Pylgrim

san-mpq wrote:

Now, we can throw out the elitist argument of "only the best and most dedicated should be getting the best rewards" which I agree with to an extent. But isn't the whole point of a game for everyone to play?

Answer: Everybody can play. But if you are asking whether everybody should play at the same level and get the same rewards regardless of effort, then the answer is a categorical No. There are several kind of games, but most games with a competitive edge to it (and MPQ has a huge one) create a meta where players that are more skilled/have more time to burn/have more money to get all perks/etc. are supposed to come ahead and get better rewards than those who doesn't. Tell me, if you with whatever little time you can put towards MPQ, believe that you should get all the rewards... what should the ones that can/are willing to put several hours per day into the game get? According to you, nothing else, or else you'll covet that too and demand to get it as well. This is not elitist talk, it merely is how any competitive activity work. You cannot demand the same trophy that is given to an athlete that has trained every singled day, several hours per day and rightfully beat you just because your "real life" didn't allow you time to train so intensively.

You still can play the game and have fun. You still can get some rewards. You'll just have a much slower progression than others that are able to play more intensively; and if you don't think that's fair, I don't know what to tell you. You may also consider about all the wonderful rewards that you are getting from spending time with your family and dogs and that many of the people who can play a game hardcore style are likely not getting.

GuntherBlobel

This is why I think they actually should be running several concurrent events with long (24 hr) refreshes. With more events, players with limited time can focus on the one they most want to play. The hard-core can play multiple events if they like and never be bored. Unfortunately, some players have been complaining that they feel compelled to play every event or else they will "fall behind." So, I'm not sure what solution would make the most people happy.

In any case, I agree completely with the OP about 4* character rewards. I get that they are supposed to be rare, but 4* character rewards require such immense play time that they continue to deflate my excitement for certain events rather than increase it. Is this the intention?

san

Pylgrim wrote:

You still can play the game and have fun. You still can get some rewards. You'll just have a much slower progression than others that are able to play more intensively; and if you don't think that's fair, I don't know what to tell you. You may also consider about all the wonderful rewards that you are getting from spending time with your family and dogs and that many of the people who can play a game hardcore style are likely not getting.

I won't respond to the first part of your post, because it continues to perpetuate an elitist argument. You have no idea how much time I spend in this game, do you? Please, don't make assumptions. You know what they say when you assume.

As of the second part, you make two valid points.

1) slower progression - yes, yes it would be. But how much further ahead am I to receive 3 covers (of 13!) for a 4*? Really? How much further? The progress would still be slow.

2) other rewards - yes, I do enjoy these. As do the MPQ creators (I don't say devs as this has been corrected by numerous others - many people create this game). I think others ought to be able to as well. Look, I play many other games. AC4: BF is great, and takes time to finish, but it doesn't punish me by having me play only at a set time (brackets), grind for hours daily (pve) or make me lose points (pvp/shield sim) needlessly... Do you see where I'm going here? I can still balance real life with many other games - mpq is an exception. And when you lose the sort of player I am, the one with a job who can pay for these things, you tend to lose income as a business.

Pylgrim

san-mpq wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

You still can play the game and have fun. You still can get some rewards. You'll just have a much slower progression than others that are able to play more intensively; and if you don't think that's fair, I don't know what to tell you. You may also consider about all the wonderful rewards that you are getting from spending time with your family and dogs and that many of the people who can play a game hardcore style are likely not getting.

I won't respond to the first part of your post, because it continues to perpetuate an elitist argument. You have no idea how much time I spend in this game, do you? Please, don't make assumptions. You know what they say when you assume.

As of the second part, you make two valid points.

1) slower progression - yes, yes it would be. But how much further ahead am I to receive 3 covers (of 13!) for a 4*? Really? How much further? The progress would still be slow.

2) other rewards - yes, I do enjoy these. As do the MPQ creators (I don't say devs as this has been corrected by numerous others - many people create this game). I think others ought to be able to as well. Look, I play many other games. AC4: BF is great, and takes time to finish, but it doesn't punish me by having me play only at a set time (brackets), grind for hours daily (pve) or make me lose points (pvp/shield sim) needlessly... Do you see where I'm going here? I can still balance real life with many other games - mpq is an exception. And when you lose the sort of player I am, the one with a job who can pay for these things, you tend to lose income as a business.

You call it "elitist" I call it "merit". A classical vocabulary difference between those who want things given away and those who earn them. The former cannot see how their wishes being granted would be ridiculously unfair to the latter and in fact, a complete discouragement from even trying.

Assassin's Creed is a one player person. MPQ is not the exception, all multiplayer games are like that. Or do you expect to jump in a game of Street Fighter, or Mario Kart, or LoL, or Magic the Gathering, or poker, or football or chess, or competitive pie-eating and be handed the victory and whatever attached rewards over your competitors (who have basically spend their life training to become good) just because someone feels bad that you simply are not able to put that much effort into it, but still want it really badly?

san

Pylgrim wrote:

You call it "elitist" I call it "merit". A classical vocabulary difference between those who want things given away and those who earn them. The former cannot see how their wishes being granted would be ridiculously unfair to the latter and in fact, a complete discouragement from even trying.

Assassin's Creed is a one player person. MPQ is not the exception, all multiplayer games are like that. Or do you expect to jump in a game of Street Fighter, or Mario Kart, or LoL, or Magic the Gathering, or poker, or football or chess, or competitive pie-eating and be handed the victory and whatever attached rewards over your competitors (who have basically spend their life training to become good) just because someone feels bad that you simply are not able to put that much effort into it, but still want it really badly?

Pie eating? Of all things? That in itself deserves a response.

Again, merit/elitist, call it what you want. I am in a top 100 alliance (top 50 last season, actually), and that's merit enough for me. My alliance beat Ultron round 7 fair and square, and I ended up with 2 very good HBIM covers. This took much time. I don't ask for handouts. I ask that a mistake be corrected.

Your argument may have more power if I barely managed to beat round 4 or 5 with my alliance. As it stands, let's not make this a circus, shall we?

esoxnepa

san-mpq wrote:

Do you have a "real" life?

...
You see, I have a spouse. And a child. And a couple of dogs. I also have nieces and nephews, siblings, and my mom and dad. I have friends, and I like to see them every now and then.

Heck, even just nice weather finally in the North Eastern United States, and I find myself looking at Ultron, off season PvP, in season PvP, and PvE thinking "where is there time for all this."

The health buffs and MMR changes more than doubled the amount of time I need for PvP. Of course it impacts everyone, so in Panther I hit top 50 with less than 600 points. I was embarrassed to not put up more, but it looks like so many others hit the same wall with Ultron + Life.

So try to enjoy life, because it's getting closer to the point where it makes more sense to go work and whale and not play MPQ. /cry

Unknown

GuntherBlobel wrote:

This is why I think they actually should be running several concurrent events with long (24 hr) refreshes. With more events, players with limited time can focus on the one they most want to play. The hard-core can play multiple events if they like and never be bored. Unfortunately, some players have been complaining that they feel compelled to play every event or else they will "fall behind." So, I'm not sure what solution would make the most people happy.

In any case, I agree completely with the OP about 4* character rewards. I get that they are supposed to be rare, but 4* character rewards require such immense play time that they continue to deflate my excitement for certain events rather than increase it. Is this the intention?

The problem is their event structure where prize character in an event is essential in the next one. So it's not entirely the player's perception. It's the fact if you don't play well one event you're handicapped in the next one and fall behind.

Stax the Foyer

Pylgrim wrote:

Assassin's Creed is a one player person. MPQ is not the exception, all multiplayer games are like that. Or do you expect to jump in a game of Street Fighter, or Mario Kart, or LoL, or Magic the Gathering, or poker, or football or chess, or competitive pie-eating and be handed the victory and whatever attached rewards over your competitors (who have basically spend their life training to become good) just because someone feels bad that you simply are not able to put that much effort into it, but still want it really badly?

It's a match-3 game. The skill threshold to succeed is pretty low. Once you've picked your characters, that's 90% of the strategy.

The current grind is a direct result of the rationing of rewards by having the bulk of them be based on ranking tiers. A shift towards more meaningful progression awards would be a good thing, and lets them tune the grind level. As we've seen in Ultron 2, the knob can still be cranked all the way to Evil if they want it to be.

It also pulls back the curtain a little bit on the design philosophy. With the ranking awards, they could say that they don't intend for the insane grinds to happen, that it's just what the community is doing with the game. After Ultron 2, though, they don't have that plausible deniability there. The math is what it is, and they intentionally set the top reward tier to require almost optimal grinding from all 20 alliance members.

They were given an opportunity to tone down the time requirements, and they chose not to do so. The game we have is the game they want. I used to hope that wasn't the case, but I'm resigned to it now.

Unknown

Ah, but maybe the point is...all the variations of gameplay existed BEFORE the update that many hate, well before Ultron came out (which essentially was ther to get us to forget all the stuff from the update. Which we hated).

We can still play PvP and/or PvE, Ultron, whatever, but let us do it fairly, and without the crippling nightmare that PvP and PvE have become. Team matching and scaling are killing people's interest in this game, and a quick "here's Ultron" won't fix that.

If that update had never happened, more people would have loved Ultron.

san

esoxnepa wrote:

... makes more sense to go work and whale and not play MPQ. /cry

This. But the problem is, in most games, in order to open up all content + DLC it's generally around $100. I may actually be willing to pay that as a one off cost, to get all the characters as that's equivalent. But in MPQ, $100 gets you a.... single 4* covered...if that...

Pylgrim

san-mpq wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

You call it "elitist" I call it "merit". A classical vocabulary difference between those who want things given away and those who earn them. The former cannot see how their wishes being granted would be ridiculously unfair to the latter and in fact, a complete discouragement from even trying.

Assassin's Creed is a one player person. MPQ is not the exception, all multiplayer games are like that. Or do you expect to jump in a game of Street Fighter, or Mario Kart, or LoL, or Magic the Gathering, or poker, or football or chess, or competitive pie-eating and be handed the victory and whatever attached rewards over your competitors (who have basically spend their life training to become good) just because someone feels bad that you simply are not able to put that much effort into it, but still want it really badly?

Pie eating? Of all things? That in itself deserves a response.

Again, merit/elitist, call it what you want. I am in a top 100 alliance (top 50 last season, actually), and that's merit enough for me. My alliance beat Ultron round 7 fair and square, and I ended up with 2 very good HBIM covers. This took much time. I don't ask for handouts. I ask that a mistake be corrected.

Your argument may have more power if I barely managed to beat round 4 or 5 with my alliance. As it stands, let's not make this a circus, shall we?

Sorry, it wasn't clear in your opening post how hard you actually you actually play. For all I knew, you barely beat round 1 in Ultron. I'd have been less sassy, otherwise. Nevertheless, some of my point remains: you are in a top 100 alliance (and so am I). We both got two 4* IMHB. You say that we should have got all three. I say, and then what do the top 5 alliances get? Yes, the last reward was a bit too inaccessible and needs to be toned down if there's another run so more top alliances can get it. I still think that it shouldn't be made so easy that you and I should get that three cover, because you and I don't get all three covers in a normal PVE either. It'd be grand if we could have all three and truly, it'd cost Demiurge nothing. But what about the really hardcore players, the ones that actually have fun pushing themselves to the limit and have the time and patience to do it? (check the thread on the winners of the 8th round to hear them talk) Aren't they warranted a bit more, a higher reward that the rest of us chumps? I argue they do.

Heartburn

with regards to rewards, nothing is stopping them from making monthly prologue- like with a few 3* sprinkled in here and there for casual players and bigger rewards for competitive play, but MPQ has always been misers with their covers, the only thing stopping them from making players happy is themselves.

Arondite

Pylgrim wrote:

san-mpq wrote:

Now, we can throw out the elitist argument of "only the best and most dedicated should be getting the best rewards" which I agree with to an extent. But isn't the whole point of a game for everyone to play?

Answer: Everybody can play. But if you are asking whether everybody should play at the same level and get the same rewards regardless of effort, then the answer is a categorical No. There are several kind of games, but most games with a competitive edge to it (and MPQ has a huge one) create a meta where players that are more skilled/have more time to burn/have more money to get all perks/etc. are supposed to come ahead and get better rewards than those who doesn't. Tell me, if you with whatever little time you can put towards MPQ, believe that you should get all the rewards... what should the ones that can/are willing to put several hours per day into the game get? According to you, nothing else, or else you'll covet that too and demand to get it as well. This is not elitist talk, it merely is how any competitive activity work. You cannot demand the same trophy that is given to an athlete that has trained every singled day, several hours per day and rightfully beat you just because your "real life" didn't allow you time to train so intensively.

You still can play the game and have fun. You still can get some rewards. You'll just have a much slower progression than others that are able to play more intensively; and if you don't think that's fair, I don't know what to tell you. You may also consider about all the wonderful rewards that you are getting from spending time with your family and dogs and that many of the people who can play a game hardcore style are likely not getting.

You realize San., the person you're addressing, generally plops down into a top 25/top 50 spot in most events regularly right

san

He figured it out Aron, but thanks

Also, I've been top 10/25 as of late, not 25/50

_RiO_

Pylgrim wrote:

san-mpq wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

You call it "elitist" I call it "merit". A classical vocabulary difference between those who want things given away and those who earn them. The former cannot see how their wishes being granted would be ridiculously unfair to the latter and in fact, a complete discouragement from even trying.

Assassin's Creed is a one player person. MPQ is not the exception, all multiplayer games are like that. Or do you expect to jump in a game of Street Fighter, or Mario Kart, or LoL, or Magic the Gathering, or poker, or football or chess, or competitive pie-eating and be handed the victory and whatever attached rewards over your competitors (who have basically spend their life training to become good) just because someone feels bad that you simply are not able to put that much effort into it, but still want it really badly?

Pie eating? Of all things? That in itself deserves a response.

Again, merit/elitist, call it what you want. I am in a top 100 alliance (top 50 last season, actually), and that's merit enough for me. My alliance beat Ultron round 7 fair and square, and I ended up with 2 very good HBIM covers. This took much time. I don't ask for handouts. I ask that a mistake be corrected.

Your argument may have more power if I barely managed to beat round 4 or 5 with my alliance. As it stands, let's not make this a circus, shall we?

Sorry, it wasn't clear in your opening post how hard you actually you actually play. For all I knew, you barely beat round 1 in Ultron. I'd have been less sassy, otherwise. Nevertheless, some of my point remains: you are in a top 100 alliance (and so am I). We both got two 4* IMHB. You say that we should have got all three. I say, and then what do the top 5 alliances get? Yes, the last reward was a bit too inaccessible and needs to be toned down if there's another run so more top alliances can get it. I still think that it should be made so easy that you and I should get that three cover, because you and I don't get all three covers in a normal PVE either. It'd be grand if we could have all three and truly, it'd cost Demiurge nothing. But what about the really hardcore players, the ones that actually have fun pushing themselves to the limit and have the time and patience to do it? (check the thread on the winners of the 8th round to hear them talk) Aren't they warranted a bit more, a higher reward that the rest of us chumps? I argue they do.

Weighing in with my two cents, as this is quite an interesting bit of discussion:

Why not hand those players a commemerative plaque or something? Some kind of digital trophy case? And free up some of the reward structure for the rest of the players so that the game is less built on artificially induced scarcity of the primary resource in the game, i.e., covers (indirectly: skills and levels) for playable characters? Nobody likes to grind like a moron (unless ofcourse you are a moron) for months on end. We all like there to be a bit of viable, tasteable progression every now and again. Deadpool Dailies have filled that void quite well for backlogged 3-star characters. However, when it comes to the head of the curve; the current play and the current events, then whenever anything 'new and exciting' happens in the world of MPQ, the vicious cycle of using the last new cover to get a headstart on earning the current new cover continues to grind every 'lesser' player's nose in the fact that they're second rank citizens at best. That is not a happy feeling and on a sustained length of time is all the less likely to induce competition in those players. It's more likely to induce apathy and lost players, if anything.