Whiners and the people who hate them

Unknown

I guess i can understand why people think we are whiners because they were able to get the iso or the money to level up their characters and find out that this or that character is overpowered. The thing is, I probably speak for majority of the players, and I started levellling up my Ragnarok once I figured out I could stunlock an entire team from taking a turn if I got at least around 12 reds. That would have me deal enough damage and generate enough greens to start matching up to start using storms ability which usually gets me more red gems to start using Ragnaroks ability and so on. Some of us used hard earned gold coins to get ragnarok up to a level where he could start the combo. At that point my ragnarok was only level 45 or so. I just needed the level 5 red power so it would only cost me 2 reds to activate his power. So I sucked it up and used a few dollars to up my Ragnarok red powers. So I was already sort of enjoying my ragnarok and gaining quite a few ISO so I could level him up as to have a really deadly team. i was inspired by the fact that other players already had fully upgraded ragnaroks and were ruling all the pvp battles and earning ISO at a faster rate than i was.

Then the ban came. I had literally spent most of my ISO on Ragnarok and I was no longer levelling up my other characters so I has a stunted character. Ragnarok is still useable but it takes a hell of a long time to actually get iso now because of a simple nerf that tripled his red power activation. I did earn a lot of ISO alright but all that iso was going to a character that was going to be useless without warning.

This was also around the time that i decided to go back to my old combo. Thor/Ironman 40/Spidey. At this time they started showing signs of telling people that they were nerfing thor and wolverine because that combo was apparently too powerful. So i decided to start using thor wolverine combo. It wasn't as safe as Thor/Ironman 40/spidey but it was able to kill things pretty fast. Then Thor and wolverine were nerfed. Wolverine still sort of works to some degree but thor no longer has the damage he used to deal and he also cannot sustain his other abilities because his abilities just suck now.

No problem, i'll just fight those pve enemies and try to gain the 500 iso prize from them to start building up my other covers. A maggia needs 4 yellow gems to start a 3-4 round countdown timer that does 2600 damage. Thor has at most 6000 life. I'm not even counting the other powers that increase the damage of the maggia. Ok fine, i can do this if I think really hard. I get hit with 2600 damage but am able to get 15 reds to start doing some damage. I deal 700 damage to the maggia and he shrugs it off because he has 9999 life. No problem, i also got some yellow so I can activate my ironman ability which gives me more gems so I can activate more powers. The problem is, I need to free up yellow gems because ironman cannot affect yellow gems that already have maggia timers on them. Timers which will deal 2600 damage to my guys every other turn. I try to stun them with spidey but I cannot get enough blues or free yellows to keep them locked down because the maggia counters are still on the yellow tiles so I cannot lock down 1 maggia for more than 1 turn.

I cannot do enough damage to kill one and i cannot start a combo because the maggia naturally break that combo. I have no idea what can kill the maggia if it takes me 12 turns to do a thousand damage while it takes them a few turns to do 2600 damage to me? I cannot earn iso fast enough to level up my other covers and I cannot also earn covers to level up my other characters.

I can kill the maggia though once I put in all my boosts. Boosts that cost me 100 gold coins a pop. No problem, I can earn 200 gold coins at the end of this event so I can try to get some ISO and maybe place higher to win the gold coins prize. So I go ahead and reluctantly buy all boosts. I win 3 battles handily even with the nerfs in place. I place top 30, which isn't good enough for any gold coins and i'm not even winning the 500 iso prizes yet so I can't level up my characters to make things easier with 20 iso a game. So I spend another 100 gold coins for another boost and maybe I can break even on the gold coins. I place top 25 after 3 more battles. Still not good enough to earn gold coins and I still haven't received more than 120 iso at this point from 6 battles straight. I just wasted gold coins which cost real money. I spent them in the 30 minutes of play. I could probably get that as a drop for me but I'd have to wait maybe 3-4 months to earn 200 golds from just the daily drops.

So I'm sitting here down a few dollars, not enough iso to level up my other characters, with characters that are pretty much useless compared to other people who have spent real money and have level 140 dr dooms with 7000+ life or something that can deal thousands of damage to you after just 4 turns. I can however deal 700 damage to dr doom in 3 turns. So at least he won't win against me without a scratch.

This is why we are complaining. Now I would like to find out why you think i'm an idiot for complaining about something so stupid like paying to play or complaining that strong characters got nerfed.

KidInsomnia

Leveling up my Ragnarok is some kind of bizarre fantasy to me. I've been playing three months and have a whopping two covers for him.

I guess I just don't understand, if you're getting trounced by Maggia, just get beat, put in three other guys from your roster and try again.

This is why I have leveled all 30+ of my characters at the same pace, more or less. Sure, no one's over 60 (YET!!!!), but if one team gets killed in this particular PVE, I swap in another team of equal strength, now facing a weaker set of Maggia. In the rare case that a particular charac is required, I wait a half hour for a health pack if I haven't got one.

This is how I've played for 3 months, and the game has continued to encourage and reward this style of play. Sure, I'm not at ELITE level, but I'm having fun, trying out a diverse roster of characters and still placing decently enough in PVE and PVP to expand and strengthen my roster of characters.

I wouldn't call you a whiner, but aside from the first The Hunt PVE, I really haven't had reason to personally complain. One's mileage may vary.

Unknown

I guess what you said makes sense IF the maggia ever get less than level 230. The problem is, none of my maggia ever get lower than level 230. I think it has something to do with having a full set of covers because I'm trying to use my thor and wolvie to try to earn iso for my other characters with are like 2/0/0 or something like that. Like I said, I just want it to be fair. If i could have a character that does 2600 damage for 4 yellows, then i would not be complaining.

edit: I just tested selling packs. I sold a couple of my useless thor, 1 star, and 2 star covers and I lowered the maggia from lvl 230 to lvl 190. I guess you get punished for having a variety of covers to choose from.

KidInsomnia

pulis wrote:

I guess what you said makes sense IF the maggia ever get less than level 230. The problem is, none of my maggia ever get lower than level 230. I think it has something to do with having a full set of covers because I'm trying to use my thor and wolvie to try to earn iso for my other characters with are like 2/0/0 or something like that. Like I said, I just want it to be fair. If i could have a character that does 2600 damage for 4 yellows, then i would not be complaining.

edit: I just tested selling packs. I sold a couple of my useless thor, 1 star, and 2 star covers and I lowered the maggia from lvl 230 to lvl 190. I guess you get punished for having a variety of covers to choose from.

That's weird. I have every cover except Daredevil and the only fights that are at 230 levels are the final ones. Never fought a Maggia that high.

Unknown

I just don't understand why low level characters do much better than high level characters. It's mindboggling to me. I think the damage scaling for high level players is very bad. I have yet to test which thor is stronger. A level 40 thor vs level 40 other players or a level 85 thor vs lvl 85 other players. Although I just sold my thor but I just know his red does 700 damage and most people have 5000 life which is 14 % of their life. I wonder if it's higher for lower level characters.

Unknown

pulis wrote:

Now I would like to find out why you think i'm an idiot for complaining about something so stupid like paying to play or complaining that strong characters got nerfed.

pulis wrote:

At this time they started showing signs of telling people that they were nerfing thor and wolverine because that combo was apparently too powerful. So i decided to start using thor wolverine combo.

People don't think that you're an idiot for whining or complaining, it's that you make bad investments. The signs were on the wall in bright neon red that Rag was going to get hit. If you didn't see that, such is life. However the second quote highlights a problem with your approach. You knew it was coming and still invested into those characters? My spidey is 5/3/3 and only level 44 b/c even before they announced the nerf list it was obvious he was too powerful from a game mechanic point of view (let alone a flavor point of view). ISO saved is ISO earned.

As for your fights, it sounds like you lack strategy and instead expect your character selection to do that work for you. Your post indicates that you have a moderate level IM40 at least. I've been using him, OBW, and Astonishing Wolverine to great effect demolishing the Maggia, without using boosts. Watch ahead for how tiles will fall after the threaten counters count down and don't let them get a cascade (assuming you can't kill the tile first). IM40 is great for getting OBW the ISO needed for her blue ability and her black + strike tiles is still really strong.

pulis wrote:

I just don't understand why low level characters do much better than high level characters. It's mindboggling to me. I think the damage scaling for high level players is very bad. I have yet to test which thor is stronger. A level 40 thor vs level 40 other players or a level 85 thor vs lvl 85 other players.

A level 85 IM40 is about 2-5 points behind level 85 Thor in their 3 respective strong colors (comparing blue to green for the off). It's because the 3* character has so much further to go. By the time my IM40 reached level 100, he was well beyond what Thor could attain, and he had stronger damage abilities by then as well.

Unknown

Riggy wrote:

pulis wrote:

Now I would like to find out why you think i'm an idiot for complaining about something so stupid like paying to play or complaining that strong characters got nerfed.

pulis wrote:

At this time they started showing signs of telling people that they were nerfing thor and wolverine because that combo was apparently too powerful. So i decided to start using thor wolverine combo.

People don't think that you're an idiot for whining or complaining, it's that you make bad investments. The signs were on the wall in bright neon red that Rag was going to get hit. If you didn't see that, such is life. However the second quote highlights a problem with your approach. You knew it was coming and still invested into those characters? My spidey is 5/3/3 and only level 44 b/c even before they announced the nerf list it was obvious he was too powerful from a game mechanic point of view (let alone a flavor point of view). ISO saved is ISO earned.

As for your fights, it sounds like you lack strategy and instead expect your character selection to do that work for you. Your post indicates that you have a moderate level IM40 at least. I've been using him, OBW, and Astonishing Wolverine to great effect demolishing the Maggia, without using boosts. Watch ahead for how tiles will fall after the threaten counters count down and don't let them get a cascade (assuming you can't kill the tile first). IM40 is great for getting OBW the ISO needed for her blue ability and her black + strike tiles is still really strong.

pulis wrote:

I just don't understand why low level characters do much better than high level characters. It's mindboggling to me. I think the damage scaling for high level players is very bad. I have yet to test which thor is stronger. A level 40 thor vs level 40 other players or a level 85 thor vs lvl 85 other players.

A level 85 IM40 is about 2-5 points behind level 85 Thor in their 3 respective strong colors (comparing blue to green for the off). It's because the 3* character has so much further to go. By the time my IM40 reached level 100, he was well beyond what Thor could attain, and he had stronger damage abilities by then as well.

I dunno if I lacked strategy. I levelled thor up to max because why would i want to level up my 1 star or 2 star teams when all of them are getting demolished by thor? Not levelling up thor is a bad yet necessary strategy.

Now you're telling me that IM40 is way more powerful than thor is I pump up enough ISO into him. I'm sure he will get nerfed in the future. So by your definition, having a more than level 40 im40 is bad investment. Are you telling me that your IM40 is a bad investment? Why did you level up your im40 if you knew it was a bad investment?

In the specific maggia case i have, im40 can in no way get the iso needed for OBW because he needs 3 free yellow iso to be efficient. Even 2 free yellow gems are enough for me but by the time i can get 10 yellows to activate IM40's powers, I'm out of free yellow gems to activate his powers on. In the meantime, the countdown timers are still going and ready to deal 2000 damage to me. If my IM40 is of a low level, it gets 1 shotted and I never get a chance to activate his powers (once again proving that putting iso into a character who is going to be nerfed is a necessary bad investment).

In short, what could i possibly invest in that won't get nerfed in 2 months? It seems everyone is using some version of wolvie/obw/im40/spiderman. It's almost as if the nerf comes to those that get used the most. They get used the most because they are the most powerful for their time which helps in earning iso. It's almost as if you need to have iso to level up covers to get more iso to level up other covers before your original covers get nerfed so you can stay ahead of the curve.

I agree spidey is overpowered since the beginning but is only so because if you leave him alone for some time, he can lock down your entire team IF spidey is in the correct team (which is spidey/IM40 and one other hero). I'm pretty sure a dev can say, "well, this team is truly dependent on yellows, so we just have to come up with an idea to shut down available yellows for this team to feed on." They already came up with the answer ahead of time with the maggia problem of mine. Have a hero that uses 3-4 yellows that sets up a countdown tile that damages the other team for something.

In the future when all heroes have 5000 life and can only do a maximum of 500 damage every 10 gems while the maggia/hammer soldiers are doing 3000 damage for 3-4 gems. This is a possible future the rate we are going.

Unknown

pulis wrote:

Now you're telling me that IM40 is way more powerful than thor is I pump up enough ISO into him. I'm sure he will get nerfed in the future. So by your definition, having a more than level 40 im40 is bad investment. Are you telling me that your IM40 is a bad investment? Why did you level up your im40 if you knew it was a bad investment?

pulis wrote:

I agree spidey is overpowered since the beginning but is only so because if you leave him alone for some time, he can lock down your entire team IF spidey is in the correct team

I feel you're reinforcing my earlier post. You're giving knee-jerk reactions as opposed to thinking it out. You can tell Spidey is over-powered but then you apply that thought to the other 3* I mentioned, IM40. You asked about scaling, I answered that 3*'s start scaling shortly after they surpass 2*'s in level. You misinterpreted number scaling to be over-powered. FYI, it was their cheap-over-powered abilities that don't fit into the AP-to-damage/effect formula that the devs use. They learned their lesson after the Rag nerf and explained their changes for Thor and Wolvie and while most people on the internet can't remember this (it was several days ago by now), the changes were initially well received b/c they made sense and made the characters playable but not auto-includes.

The second line I quoted is also inaccurate. Spidey is over-powered b/c he's more than good in most any team. All you need is blue on the board. If you want to talk teams, then having a blue generator like Hood, Magneto, OBW, Modern Widow, etc. pretty much makes him an auto-win.

Also, I think the reason so many people are using IM40 is b/c he was one of the staple rewards in the early tourneys and so he's been the one in our rosters the longest and sort of a stand-by for ISO dumping (that's my personal reason for having him 100+).

Unknown

IM40 is definitely my most leveled and most complete (covers) 3*, but I just don't see the appeal. I guess people are just using him for his yellow and his HP and then a big blue nuke if things work out?

Unknown

You are right to a certain point. I am sure you are only talking about the nerfs in terms of pvp though as the nerfs hit everyone. I'm not complaining about that part, i'm more complaining about, how the heck am I supposed to do 18000 damage in 8 turns?

Spidey is overpowered because he can lock down a team using yellow web tiles. When there are no yellow webtiles, he is not powerful. He is in fact a detriment because he's just wasting blues that could have gone to a more damaging hero. Most of the time, you are right though, I'm still owning in pvp even against overpowered characters like dr doom and whatnot. My specific problem is there's literally no way to win thick as thieves without a ton of dollars to spare.

One could even say Magneto is overpowered more than spidey. he only needs 5 blues to generate 2 blues. Just find to patches of 2 blue tiles and add a 3rd tile to them to match them up for 6 blue tiles gotten plus a bit of damage and maybe matching other gems that may make space for more blue tiles to match off of. I've literally won entire matches using only magneto.

I'm pretty sure i've thought it out enough and there's just no way for my team as it stands right now to deal 18000 damage in 8 turns because i can only survive 8 turns with my best team.

Unknown

The reason you think Pve is hard is that you do not have enough cover for the buffed up characters.

The countdown is best handled with original black widows anti gravity device.

You need at least lvl4 blue.

You need strike tiles to buff up your damage too.

I think the best team is wolverine spiderman and OBW.(the 3 buffed up characters)

if you can't beat the Pve enemy with this setup, I don't know why you have not quit the game yet.

Unknown

xinyucao wrote:

The reason you think Pve is hard is that you do not have enough cover for the buffed up characters.

The countdown is best handled with original black widows anti gravity device.

You need at least lvl4 blue.

You need strike tiles to buff up your damage too.

I think the best team is wolverine spiderman and OBW.(the 3 buffed up characters)

if you can't beat the Pve enemy with this setup, I don't know why you have not quit the game yet.

I have maxxed out black widow. Granted she's only level 45 i think but she's built 4/5/4. Thor max covers and max level. IM40 5/5/3 level 90. Wolverine 5/5/3 lvl 85. spiderman 5/5/2 level 102. Believe me, the only way to win is to deal damage straight out. There's no way to keep feeding yourself blues until you can do 8000 damage to kill one maggia.

I've come close with Magneto/wolverine/someone else. Once i get 5 blues, i can pretty much stunlock and crit damage them a few turns to buy me some time but i was only able to kill 1 maggia.

Unknown

This is Bull$#/'! I have been a loyal player for 3 1/2 months. I havent missed a single day! My wolvie/thor combo was perfect,not because i payed, but because i played my **** off every day earning iso 8 and upgrading the perfect attack team. And now theyre essentially WORTHLESS! My lvl 85 wolvie/80 thor/50 hulk cant beat 3 lvl 69 maggia?!?!?!?!?!?!? ****?!?!?!
AND IM USING BOOSTS!!!!!!
If wolvie thor were so powerful, then devs, you shouldve balanced the playing field, not by down grading wolvie/thor. But by upgrading the other characters.
Or was this too much work for you?
It seems the devs took the easy way out and down graded two instead of upgrading 12.
I have a better idea: return wolvie/thor to thier previous settings, but in a way that has to be earned.

For example: introduce a 12 day tournament, each consisting of twelve 24 hour chapters that begins with wolvie/thor in their current state, and returned to thier previous state as the tourney progresses. And along the way, say each chapter, introduce a new character, each an integral part of the storyline. Each new character would have a "strong" level to help balance the field. And with each chapter, a particular low power current character gets upgraded to also help even things up.

Heres a scenario:
Chapter 1: the maggia and hammer are both hunting a, say bagman spidey. Bagman spidey get leveled as it progresses and at the end of tue chapter we challenge: TADA! A newly hiredbyhammer Deadpool!

Or howabout an upgraded magneto and the thing!

Or upgraded hawkeye and new dr strange!

The possibilities are endless with so many characters in marvels roster.

Here is my proposal developers: improve the game by upgrading NOT degrading the game.
give me new characters. I want to see nightcrawler and namor and carnage and sabretooth.
bring more themes with ghostrider and blackheart or silver surfer and galactus. Introduce a ton of charcters that bring diversity and playability while leveling the playing field characterwise.

Unknown

leper messiah wrote:

My lvl 85 wolvie/80 thor/50 hulk cant beat 3 lvl 69 maggia?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Scissor, paper, rock. You are trying to beat the rock with a scissor.
While I share your pain at the Thor/Wolvie nerf (they were my top chars too), I still consider it a good move that will benefit the overall game balance. Games of nuke, paper, rock tend to get boring fast, especially with too many nukes around.

Unknown

Moghwyn wrote:

leper messiah wrote:

My lvl 85 wolvie/80 thor/50 hulk cant beat 3 lvl 69 maggia?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Scissor, paper, rock. You are trying to beat the rock with a scissor.
While I share your pain at the Thor/Wolvie nerf (they were my top chars too), I still consider it a good move that will benefit the overall game balance. Games of nuke, paper, rock tend to get boring fast, especially with too many nukes around.

Indeed. Against the maggia I send OBW, bagman and some strike guy (punisher, patch, vol**).

Unknown

A 1 black level 15 Loki can ruin Maggia if you can find enough black before letting their (much slower) blue damage ability resolve. Let a couple of Threatens go off (carefully! no cascades!) and Trickery gives you 3200 in protect tiles. 5 black is obviously better, but the only difference is how much AP you need.

This observation (C) Celerity.

Unknown

KidInsomnia wrote:

pulis wrote:

I guess what you said makes sense IF the maggia ever get less than level 230. The problem is, none of my maggia ever get lower than level 230. I think it has something to do with having a full set of covers because I'm trying to use my thor and wolvie to try to earn iso for my other characters with are like 2/0/0 or something like that. Like I said, I just want it to be fair. If i could have a character that does 2600 damage for 4 yellows, then i would not be complaining.

edit: I just tested selling packs. I sold a couple of my useless thor, 1 star, and 2 star covers and I lowered the maggia from lvl 230 to lvl 190. I guess you get punished for having a variety of covers to choose from.

That's weird. I have every cover except Daredevil and the only fights that are at 230 levels are the final ones. Never fought a Maggia that high.

Not so weird, i've encountered only lvl 230 enemies and i had only one lvl 85 hero (Wolverine 2*). Next i had OBW lvl 80. Next i had only low lvl heroes (30-40 max)..
Not even a full max level team, totally unbalanced

Unknown

Can I make a topic called "People and the whiners who love them"? Sounds like a Geraldo episode.

kensterr

xinyucao wrote:

I think the best team is wolverine spiderman and OBW.(the 3 buffed up characters)

if you can't beat the Pve enemy with this setup, I don't know why you have not quit the game yet.

This is only true if you assume that everyone has this setup. My Spiderman only has 1 purple cover... so how do I beat the PVE enemy?

kensterr

Veracity wrote:

A 1 black level 15 Loki can ruin Maggia if you can find enough black before letting their (much slower) blue damage ability resolve. Let a couple of Threatens go off (carefully! no cascades!) and Trickery gives you 3200 in protect tiles. 5 black is obviously better, but the only difference is how much AP you need.

This observation (C) Celerity.

Hmmm, thanks for this info. Will try it out when possible.

Unknown

pulis wrote:

I have maxxed out black widow. Granted she's only level 45 i think but she's built 4/5/4. Thor max covers and max level. IM40 5/5/3 level 90. Wolverine 5/5/3 lvl 85. spiderman 5/5/2 level 102. Believe me, the only way to win is to deal damage straight out. There's no way to keep feeding yourself blues until you can do 8000 damage to kill one maggia..

You have a more powerful line up than me, and I had no trouble beating any level 230 combination, other than a really bad board or really bad cascades killing me. I ran a team of Patch 3/5/5 level 70, OBW 4/5/4 level 47, and one of either Spidey 5/4/3 level 60, or Magneto 2/2/5 level 55. You just need to always be aware of the board and make sure you're thinking several moves ahead so you can try to clear the enemy attacks when they come out. It honestly wasn't that hard except when facing teams like level 230 Ares, Juggs and Bullseye, as they could take me down in no time if I wasn't careful.