Let's talk about PVE scaling

dr tinykittylove

Useful data :
1) average of top 4 characters in roster.
2) round number
3) level of unboosted essential and associated wave node.
4) levels of nodes for Ultron Prime sub.

1) My roster: Average of top 4 is 154.
2) Round 5: Ultron 250 / Round 6: Ultron 300
3)
QS lvl 117
QS1 - 128-133
QS2 - 132-137
LThor lvl 153 - 136-155
Hulk lvl 153 - 93-133
GSBW lvl 141 - 89-129

Round 6 levels

QS @120 unboosted
QS1: 110-140
QS2: 136-137
IM40: 105-140
Hulk: 97-106
LCap: 155-155

4) whoops, fell asleep and forgot to add this
UP1: 96/97/96
UP2: 109
UP3: 124/125/124
UP4: 132/133/132
UP5: 137

So, how do your levels look? Please post comparisons no matter what round you're on, just note the round number so we are on the same page.

Unknown

1) Average of top 4 is 128 (146 boosted)
2) Round 5: Ultron 250
3)
QS lvl 40 (130)
QS1: 112-117
QS2: 112-113
Iron Man m40 lvl40 (70): 103-104
Hawkeye lvl 60 (90): 103-113
GSBW lvl 94 (124): 75-101

Not 100% on boosted levels since everything is locked, can't check.

Ryz-aus

1) 244 - will have to check boosted later.
2) Round 5: Ultron 250
3)
: 212-216
: 212-212
: 147-186
: 188-189
: 188-212

I think my scaling earlier for thor was higher, so it may be separate for each essential hero. I have a maxed version of every essential except quicksilver who is still level 40 (8 covers), but I go for those refreshes first for the hp and token chance.

Edit: just made it to round 6 - the non nodes difficulty went up without any play by me.
: 147-216
: 218-219
: 212-219

4) Ultron Prime nodes:
155, 178, 165, 182 for the completed ones. Yes, the third one was lower level than the second one.
Remaining show as 216, 216, 245, 248.

GrumpySmurf1002

Top 4 characters: XForce (221), Cap, Thor, Grocket, Hood (166)

Prime:

1) 112/113/113
2) 128/129/128
3) 123/124/124
4) 132/133/132
5) 159/159/159
6) 159/159/159
7) 177/178/178
8) 181/182/181

QS (lvl 40) 155, 155-159
Hawkeye (lvl 1) 139-155
Iron Man (lvl 102) 139-140
Black Widow (lvl 94, OBW is higher than GSBW) 105-137

simonsez

As someone who typically grinds PvE pretty hard, I started to wonder why this event was starting to feel too grindy to me, and yet no one else in my alliance was complaining about it yet. Even more confusing when you realize how much we love to complain. Then I discovered that my side nodes were all lv212, and their's were all lv155.

Sorry, but this is indefensible. I shouldn't be getting penalized for having a lv270 XForce that is completely useless in this event. I totally get that this event is targeted towards new and/or casual players as a movie tie-in. I have no problem if you want to give them lv20 opponents all day and night. But within my alliance, we're generally similar players with similar rosters, and we're playing these Ultron nodes with EXACTLY THE SAME CHARACTERS. I am not a match-3 savant. I have no special abilities that justify seeing opponents that are 60 levels higher than my alliance-mates.

SnowcaTT

simonsez wrote:

As someone who typically grinds PvE pretty hard, I started to wonder why this event was starting to feel too grindy to me, and yet no one else in my alliance was complaining about it yet. Even more confusing when you realize how much we love to complain. Then I discovered that my side nodes were all lv212, and their's were all lv155.

Sorry, but this is indefensible. I shouldn't be getting penalized for having a lv270 XForce that is completely useless in this event. I totally get that this event is targeted towards new and/or casual players as a movie tie-in. I have no problem if you want to give them lv20 opponents all day and night. But within my alliance, we're generally similar players with similar rosters, and we're playing these Ultron nodes with EXACTLY THE SAME CHARACTERS. I am not a match-3 savant. I have no special abilities that justify seeing opponents that are 60 levels higher than my alliance-mates.

In this or any PVE. The scaling is based so the newer players can compete in these, but it is driving the vets away. I stopped playing PVE for this reason, and this is just a PVE in special makeup. Eventually your new players will be vets. No one should be punished for their accomplishments later in the game, or having good levels on the characters you deem "essential".

kidicarus

Just for academic purposes

1) My roster: Vet(21 166s, 270x4hors, 220 fury and every other char barring Yelena).
2) Round 6: Ultron 300
3) Clockwise from top
QS lvl 212-216
QS1 - 212-212
GSBW - 147-186
IM40 lvl 188-189
Hawkeye lvl 188-212

edit: I have already done one pass of Rd 6.

Bowgentle

kidicarus wrote:

Just for academic purposes

1) My roster: Vet(21 166s, 270x4hors, 220 fury and every other char barring Yelena).
2) Round 6: Ultron 300
3) Clockwise from top
QS lvl 212-216
QS1 - 212-212
GSBW - 147-186
IM40 lvl 188-189
Hawkeye lvl 188-212

edit: I have already done one pass of Rd 6.

Yup same levels here.

I was naive enough to hope that this event would tone down scaling after the nerfs to throw vets a bone.
Nope.

simonsez

Bowgentle wrote:

kidicarus wrote:

Just for academic purposes

1) My roster: Vet(21 166s, 270x4hors, 220 fury and every other char barring Yelena).
2) Round 6: Ultron 300
3) Clockwise from top
QS lvl 212-216
QS1 - 212-212
GSBW - 147-186
IM40 lvl 188-189
Hawkeye lvl 188-212

edit: I have already done one pass of Rd 6.

Yup same levels here.

I was naive enough to hope that this event would tone down scaling after the nerfs to throw vets a bone.
Nope.

My IM40 node was 219. They didn't throw me a bone; they beat me over the head with it.

kidicarus

kidicarus wrote:

Just for academic purposes

1) My roster: Vet(21 166s, 270x4hors, 220 fury and every other char barring Yelena).
2) Round 6: Ultron 300
3) Clockwise from top
QS lvl 212-216 (152-189)
QS1 - 212-212 (185-186)
GSBW - 147-186 (IM40147-189)
IM40 lvl 188-189 (hulk 133 - 147)
Hawkeye lvl 188-212 (lazycap 212)

edit: I have already done one pass of Rd 6.

Ok, my essential nodes just reset and I have new levels in brackets. Still round 6 - weird.

Ludaa

230 Xf, 221 GT, lots of 166's...

My scaling for round 7
QS1 129-163
QS2 159-159
IM 124-163
Hulk 114-125
Cap 181-182

Ultron lvl350
Ultron Prime #7 @208 and #8 @212

Yikes, looks like I've got it easy

Unknown

This event just highlights scaling more because Ultron Sentries are extremely sensitive to a level advantage or disadvantage. I was reading people who say it's easy with soandso and I tried it and was like 'how can this possibly work?' and then I check the levels. For example all the Ultron Sentries can punch through Patch's regen just fine. Doesn't mean I can't win with Patch but when your health is consistently going down each turn then waiting for the Berserker Rage + Trickery suddenly seems pretty scary. I guess they must have figured that since Ultron is at a static level that makes everything fine but Ultron is way easier than his Sentries.

fmftint

T4 average: 173
Round: 7 Ultron: 350
QS1: 93-140
QS2: 136-137
Prime 1: 96 cleared
Prime 2: 109 cleared
Prime 3: 106 cleared
Prime 4: 112
Prime 5: 136
Prime 6: 136
Prime 7: 151 locked
Prime 8: 181 locked

Unknown

Just noticed something and this was the thread with the closest topic:

yesterday I noticed that the HP from sentries was bumped from 3.3k to 5.5 from ultron 5 to ultron 6; today's essentials has a similar lv, around 110~120, but their HP is back to ~3.3k on ultron 7.

Anyone else experienced the same?

SnowcaTT

6 unlocked. 250/6x 166 including Thor/Hulk (both buffed). Most 3*'s at 140 or 127 (so tons of total levels, if that matters). Almost at first QS progression.

QS: 129-182
QS: 162-186
Thor: 181-189
Hulk: 181-182
Widow: 162-189

Did the easier QS node to finish the level 5 Ultron, and all of these were about 15 levels easier before 6 was unlocked.

Ryz-aus

Ryz-aus wrote:

1) 244 - will have to check boosted later.
2) Round 5: Ultron 250
3)
: 212-216
: 212-212
: 147-186
: 188-189
: 188-212

I think my scaling earlier for thor was higher, so it may be separate for each essential hero. I have a maxed version of every essential except quicksilver who is still level 40 (8 covers), but I go for those refreshes first for the hp and token chance.

Edit: just made it to round 6 - the non nodes difficulty went up without any play by me.
: 147-216
: 218-219
: 212-219

4) Ultron Prime nodes:
155, 178, 165, 182 for the completed ones. Yes, the third one was lower level than the second one.
Remaining show as 216, 216, 245, 248.

Update for round 7:
Ultron 350
: 218-251
: 152-248
: 218-254
: 212-212
: 212-254

Last ultron prime level also got harder - level 290 now. I haven't increased the level of my roster at all, but did get two quicksilver covers.

Unknown

GT/XF at 250, 10x166s, 15x100-140s
Round 7.

From top, clockwise

1- QS 185-189
2- QS 129-182
3- BW 188-189
4- Hulk 181-182
5- Thor 181-189


I'm actually surprised to know there's any variety, I thought they were all the same level.

My Ultron Prime finale is 248. First round is 132. These have also been basically the same so far (actually the last one at 186 was the easiest, but good boards will do that)

Unknown

ArkPrime wrote:

GT/XF at 250, 10x166s, 15x100-140s
Round 7.

From top, clockwise

1- QS 185-189
2- QS 129-182
3- BW 188-189
4- Hulk 181-182
5- Thor 181-189


I'm actually surprised to know there's any variety, I thought they were all the same level.

My Ultron Prime finale is 248. First round is 132. These have also been basically the same so far (actually the last one at 186 was the easiest, but good boards will do that)

Your levels are exactly the same as mine (though I'm on round 5). I don't even think the levels on the Ultron Sentries ever go up as a function of round number because I think they've been at those levels since round 1. Sucks to be the guy with higher than those numbers, because it's already pretty brutal at these numbers.

It seems to me the enjoyment of this event is entirely dependent on how much scaling likes you. I can manage at those numbers, but if they go up to 200-220 it'd be pretty painful. I'm sure I can still beat it, but I'd no longer be looking forward to playing any of those nodes. Seems like there are maybe 4 different distinct settings for this event? It sure isn't like a normal event where you'd have a hard time finding two guys with the same enemy level on any particular node.

simonsez

Phantron wrote:

It seems to me the enjoyment of this event is entirely dependent on how much scaling likes you. I can manage at those numbers, but if they go up to 200-220 it'd be pretty painful.

It is. Extremely.

Seriously, to whom do I petition to get my scaling reassessed? You guys are PvE animals. It makes no sense why I'm getting hung out to dry like this.

Eddiemon

simonsez wrote:

I shouldn't be getting penalized for having a lv270 XForce that is completely useless in this event.

Say what?

X Force, Iron Fist and Laken are my go to guys in the bomb drop missions. X Force, Iron Fist and Spidey for Ultron Prime.

He's still the biggest single target damage dealer in the game.

Eddiemon

simonsez wrote:

Seriously, to whom do I petition to get my scaling reassessed? You guys are PvE animals. It makes no sense why I'm getting hung out to dry like this.

Yet in your earleir post you said that you grind PvE 'pretty hard'. That's where your scaling is coming from. Your performance and history has more bearing than your roster.