The Quicksilver - Prof X - Iron Fist Engine

Unknown

over_clocked wrote:

Yup, Iron Fist is the problem here. That said I got his 5th purple recently. That said, he should be properly nerfed - pardon, balanced - before it gets out of hand (he also enables X-Force, Black Panther, Luke Cage and Mystique, not to mention 5 purple for doing that kind of damage is bonkers, condition or not). No idea why they didn't do it properly the first time, better render him average than have players get enraged twice.

I want everyone to repeat after me until you believe it: "Iron Fist is not that good"

He's no better than any other tile coverter at this point. It takes him at LEAST 10 purple to do 4,000 damage, more like 15 usually. If you held onto the black forever and made him 5 purple for 5 damage at this point, he approaches "good" at 25+ purple doing 12,000 damage for ~480 damage per AP. And you have collected 25 purple at this point, allowing the opponent to run amok in other more popular damage colors. And his green is basically Punisher's green, which while good, is not ground breaking. His is nice, but no more broken than Cage's .

He is good at what he does, which is enable black users to spit out damage, but without Cyclops or XF he is not that internally consistent at damage. Plus after being arbitrarily passed over for an HP buff for his considered "power" he is vulnerable to 1 hit KO. Really, he is not that good.

If anyone is a problem in this little Trifecta it's Professor X. His blue is off the charts good for a passive. Generates AP (don't we hate that now?), does massive damage on top of a Crit Tile (which already does pretty good damage), and adds bonus effectiveness to all tile converters (who are already pretty damn effective). Prof X synergy has caused at least 3 character changes once the synergy was pointed out that I know of. Seems like the others probably weren't the problem.

GuntherBlobel

Lerysh wrote:

Yup, Iron Fist is the problem here. That said I got his 5th purple recently. That said, he should be properly nerfed - pardon, balanced - before it gets out of hand (he also enables X-Force, Black Panther, Luke Cage and Mystique, not to mention 5 purple for doing that kind of damage is bonkers, condition or not). No idea why they didn't do it properly the first time, better render him average than have players get enraged twice.

I agree that IF is a big part of the problem. 5 AP is just to easy to achieve with any board manipulating power within a single turn. It's going to be the go-to infinite turn ability as long it's priced at 5 AP. But, clearly, the Devs really want it priced at 5 AP, so I think they also need to be more clever about how other powers that generate AP operate.

over_clocked wrote:

If anyone is a problem in this little Trifecta it's Professor X. His blue is off the charts good for a passive. Generates AP (don't we hate that now?), does massive damage on top of a Crit Tile (which already does pretty good damage), and adds bonus effectiveness to all tile converters (who are already pretty damn effective). Prof X synergy has caused at least 3 character changes once the synergy was pointed out that I know of. Seems like the others probably weren't the problem.

I mentioned this in another thread, but I'll say it here too. Prof X could pretty much keep his powers as they are, if his AP generation was tied to Mischief-like CD tiles. Master Plan would feel like Speed Shot, with each CD would providing AP upon resolution. That would give the enemy team at least a turn or two to fight back, ending the infinite loop problem right there. But also, using other AP generating powers that alter the board (Storm , IF , etc.) to trigger Master Plan multiple times in the same turn would be self-regulating because they would either destroy Master Plan's CDs or saturate the all available tiles for CDs to be placed on. Again, this would force the player to give the AI a few turns between Master Plan triggers.

People would call it a nerf, but who cares. This is a fix that the Devs could make that would still sell Prof X covers, because he'd still be very powerful, without breaking the game.

Lastly, what do you all think about "locking out" rare problematic character combos in the character selection screen? IMO, characters should not get full reworks because of one or two problematic combos, particularly given the end results. With 60+ characters in the game, problematic character combos are going to be very common going forward.

Unknown

The combo is called "Metals on Wheels".
You are welcome.

Unknown

over_clocked wrote:

Yup, Iron Fist is the problem here. That said I got his 5th purple recently. That said, he should be properly nerfed - pardon, balanced - before it gets out of hand (he also enables X-Force, Black Panther, Luke Cage and Mystique, not to mention 5 purple for doing that kind of damage is bonkers, condition or not). No idea why they didn't do it properly the first time, better render him average than have players get enraged twice.

In retrospect the devs must have knew Iron Fist wasn't getting a health increase and figure that would've been enough to keep him balanced. He is in the lowest HP tier not counting the 'we hope no one remembered those guys' tier (Daken/Patch/Loki/The Hood) so he should have powerful moves, just not THAT powerful.

Unknown

GuntherBlobel wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

Yup, Iron Fist is the problem here. That said I got his 5th purple recently. That said, he should be properly nerfed - pardon, balanced - before it gets out of hand (he also enables X-Force, Black Panther, Luke Cage and Mystique, not to mention 5 purple for doing that kind of damage is bonkers, condition or not). No idea why they didn't do it properly the first time, better render him average than have players get enraged twice.

I agree that IF is a big part of the problem. 5 AP is just to easy to achieve with any board manipulating power within a single turn. It's going to be the go-to infinite turn ability as long it's priced at 5 AP. But, clearly, the Devs really want it priced at 5 AP, so I think they also need to be more clever about how other powers that generate AP operate.

over_clocked wrote:

If anyone is a problem in this little Trifecta it's Professor X. His blue is off the charts good for a passive. Generates AP (don't we hate that now?), does massive damage on top of a Crit Tile (which already does pretty good damage), and adds bonus effectiveness to all tile converters (who are already pretty damn effective). Prof X synergy has caused at least 3 character changes once the synergy was pointed out that I know of. Seems like the others probably weren't the problem.

I mentioned this in another thread, but I'll say it here too. Prof X could pretty much keep his powers as is, if his AP generation was tied to Mischief-like CD tiles. Master Plan would feel like Speed Shot, with each CD would providing AP upon resolution. That would give the enemy team at least a turn or two to fight back, ending the infinite loop problem right there. But also, using other AP generating powers that alter the board (Storm , IF , etc.) to trigger Master Plan multiple times in the same turn would be self-regulating because they would either destroy Master Plan's CDs or saturate the all available tiles for CDs to be placed on. Again, this would force the player to give the AI a few turns between Master Plan triggers.

People would call it a nerf, but who cares. This is a fix that the Devs could make that would still sell Prof X covers, because he'd still be very powerful, without breaking the game.

Lastly, what do you all think about "locking out" rare problematic character combos in the character selection screen? IMO, characters should not get full reworks because of one or two problematic combos, particularly given the end results. With 60+ characters in the game, problematic character combos are going to be very common going forward.

Truths were spoken - Professor X blue too powerful(AP generation) and Iron Fist purple too powerful(AP generation)

SnowcaTT

raisinbman wrote:

Truths were spoken - Professor X blue too powerful(AP generation) and Iron Fist purple too powerful(AP generation)

Solution: GSBW better get the nerf!

Agree with what Wonko has been saying (on the conspiracy side): PX will be allowed (enabled?) to be over powered right until a certain number of covers have been sold, at which point (or 90 days after which point) he'll get the 4* nerf bat that we've seen so often recently.

over_clocked

I keep forgetting my Prof X has 3 covers in blue so he generates a 'meager' 2 AP so far. It's probably also a big part when maxed. I was still able to beat most teams (with maxed 4or and stuff) with my 3 blue Prof, 2 black Quicksilver and 5 purple Iron FIst in Blue Shift. So there's that.

Unknown

SnowcaTT wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

Truths were spoken - Professor X blue too powerful(AP generation) and Iron Fist purple too powerful(AP generation)

Solution: GSBW better get the nerf!

Agree with what Wonko has been saying (on the conspiracy side): PX will be allowed (enabled?) to be over powered right until a certain number of covers have been sold, at which point (or 90 days after which point) he'll get the 4* nerf bat that we've seen so often recently.

I honestly think GSBW will get nerfed too. Or her rework will "conveniently" change her purple to work differently.

It's literally a 3* Polarity shift!

GuntherBlobel

SnowcaTT wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

Truths were spoken - Professor X blue too powerful(AP generation) and Iron Fist purple too powerful(AP generation)

Solution: GSBW better get the nerf!

Agree with what Wonko has been saying (on the conspiracy side): PX will be allowed (enabled?) to be over powered right until a certain number of covers have been sold, at which point (or 90 days after which point) he'll get the 4* nerf bat that we've seen so often recently.

If the past is any predictor of the future: then you're right. But the Devs really must come up with a better solution.

Ban Prof X with gsBW and IF. Done. 99% of players will never know and you won't hear a fraction of the outrage (I would hope). As it is, everyone distrusts Demiurge's motives behind the nerfs, even players who haven't been hurt by one.

simonsez

I can't help but wonder why there's still all this nerf talking going on when we're in the middle of a PvE that vast numbers of players are ignoring completely because the nodes are simply too hard.

Unknown

Three pages of reading later...

Note to self: Don't bother building a PX.

DBC

Unknown

Drummerboycroy wrote:

Three pages of reading later...

Note to self: Don't bother building a PX.

DBC

Honestly, I would say don't build a Iron Fist(unless you can build one relatively fast without losing tons of iso/hp). They nerfed like, 4 other characters INCLUDING Professor X to make sure Professor X "wasn't overpowered". It seems like they really don't want to nerf professor x even though they might need to. So the only way I see them nerfing Professor X is if Professor X becomes the new winfinite/magstorm/sentry/xforce. Which this thread showed him as but D3 doesn't always use logic.

But really, the elephant in the room is Iron Fist. Having less health than everyone doesn't mean **** when you're OP

Unknown

raisinbman wrote:

Drummerboycroy wrote:

Three pages of reading later...

Note to self: Don't bother building a PX.

DBC

Honestly, I would say don't build a Iron Fist(unless you can build one relatively fast without losing tons of iso/hp). They nerfed like, 4 other characters INCLUDING Professor X to make sure Professor X "wasn't overpowered". It seems like they really don't want to nerf professor x even though they might need to. So the only way I see them nerfing Professor X is if Professor X becomes the new winfinite/magstorm/sentry/xforce. Which this thread showed him as but D3 doesn't always use logic.

But really, the elephant in the room is Iron Fist. Having less health than everyone doesn't mean **** when you're OP

I agree, but speaking from experience, it would be hard for me not to look at an (potentially) OP 4* and think, "I know where that is headed..."

DBC

Phaserhawk

A combo that requries you to underlevel a character is probably not going to worry them, but agree the +4 AP gain is a tad broken, honestly though I"m alsost wondering if MnMgs was nerfed because of Quicksilver himself

simonsez

simonsez wrote:

I can't help but wonder why there's still all this nerf talking going on when we're in the middle of a PvE that vast numbers of players are ignoring completely because the nodes are simply too hard.

raisinbman wrote:

because we're allowed to?

So, if I have this straight, you're allowed to ask for nerfs, but I'm not allowed to ask why this is a good idea when so many people are finding the current event too hard to play as it is, unless I want to get negged for it?

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

simonsez wrote:

I can't help but wonder why there's still all this nerf talking going on when we're in the middle of a PvE that vast numbers of players are ignoring completely because the nodes are simply too hard.

raisinbman wrote:

because we're allowed to?

So, if I have this straight, you're allowed to ask for nerfs, but I'm not allowed to ask why this is a good idea when so many people are finding the current event too hard to play as it is, unless I want to get negged for it?

This is a topic discussing nerfs and a particular combo. If you would like to voice your "free speech" about events you don't like, I'm sure you can find a place to do so.

Ever heard of topic derailing? And don't worry, I won't just neg you anymore, I'll follow proper procedure.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

A combo that requries you to underlevel a character is probably not going to worry them, but agree the +4 AP gain is a tad broken, honestly though I"m alsost wondering if MnMgs was nerfed because of Quicksilver himself

quicksilver would be garbage with mq and mnmags. The biggest problem with that combo was always too many TU tiles, and Quicksilver makes them harder to destroy.

It's ridiculously obvious the problem was profX

Phaserhawk

The easiest fix for Prof X is to have it either generate a random +4 AP, or generate AP of the 5 match (not sure if this would be better or worse)

MnMags would get you blue
IF would get you black
Cyclops get you red
GSBW would get you purple

yeah, that would still break the game more than likely so I say just have it generate random AP, or AP in the enemies strongest color or better yet, no AP at all, bump up the damage However I have the best solution of All.

Master Plan - Passive
(PASSIVE) In rigorous training sessions, Professor X teaches his allies to recognize tactical openings. Whenever Professor X's team makes a Match-5 or greater, create a Blue Countdown tile that activates every turn, draining 1 AP at random (the drain acts as a steal, multiple tiles = multiple steals) and deals an additional 941 damage.
Level Upgrades
Level 2: Deals an additonal 1317 damage.
Level 3: Deals an additonal 1430 damage and steals random 2 AP.
Level 4: Deals an additonal 2070 damage.
Level 5: Deals an additonal 2221 damage and steals random 4 AP.
Max Level
Level 3 - Deals an additonal 2839 damage and steals random 2 AP.
Level 4 - Deals an additonal 4110 damage and steals random 2 AP.
Level 5 - Deals an additonal 4408 damage and steals random 4 AP.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

The easiest fix for Prof X is to have it either generate a random +4 AP, or generate AP of the 5 match (not sure if this would be better or worse)

MnMags would get you blue
IF would get you black
Cyclops get you red
GSBW would get you purple

yeah, that would still break the game more than likely so I say just have it generate random AP, or AP in the enemies strongest color or better yet, no AP at all, bump up the damage However I have the best solution of All.

Master Plan - Passive
(PASSIVE) In rigorous training sessions, Professor X teaches his allies to recognize tactical openings. Whenever Professor X's team makes a Match-5 or greater, create a Blue Countdown tile that activates every turn, draining 1 AP at random (the drain acts as a steal, multiple tiles = multiple steals) and deals an additional 941 damage.
Level Upgrades
Level 2: Deals an additonal 1317 damage.
Level 3: Deals an additonal 1430 damage and steals random 2 AP.
Level 4: Deals an additonal 2070 damage.
Level 5: Deals an additonal 2221 damage and steals random 4 AP.
Max Level
Level 3 - Deals an additonal 2839 damage and steals random 2 AP.
Level 4 - Deals an additonal 4110 damage and steals random 2 AP.
Level 5 - Deals an additonal 4408 damage and steals random 4 AP.

So getting 4AP is overpowered, but the best solution is to create a countdown tile that generates 4AP every turn it is on the board.

I do not think the word overpowered means what you think it means

TheOncomingStorm

You know, I think there is still one or two good characters left that have not been nerfed yet. People should go ahead and put nails in their coffins. Get as many nerfed as possible. Don't worry, they'll make more. -_-